Interior shadows WITHOUT creating dynamic shadows through LOD that cuts off light?

[nodunit 397]

I wanted to stop proposing ideas on the tracker and leave it for actual problems, preferring to discuss the idea here as opposed to turning a tracker ticket into a social entry.

I would have added this to the lighting thread but while it has a bit of relation it pertains to something entirerly different.

I'll pass on the speech of how the new lights look the most sexy in the whole series and how the lack of shadows kind of hurts a bit of the effect, we all know this but I wonder if we have been approaching it the wrong way.

Dynamic shadows are amazing, no doubts about it but so too are they costly, but what are generally the biggest gripes?

Light going through walls and other things, places where it shouldn't as opposed to this street lamp not casting a shadow.

What if there was a special LOD composed of simple geometry (like shadow volume only it doesn't cast shadows but rather stops light) that would in essence stop everything (or at least lights) outside of it from being rendered within.

In this way you aren't actually creating dynamic shadows but you ARE cutting lights off where they shouldn't be.

I will uses Crysis to demonstrate this as they have documented this idea well, it's used in various games but you don't generally get to see the magic behind it.

http://freesdk.crydev.net/display/SDKDOC2/VisArea+and+Portals

Here is a working example

http://www.picshelf.com/images/visarea_bldg_layout.jpg

There are two rooms withthe vis area clipping just outside of the walls (or inside of them, whichever works best) to cut off all rendered light sources (or from rendering everything), leaving it in utter darkness.

http://www.picshelf.com/images/visarea_no_portals_in_view.jpg

http://www.picshelf.com/images/visarea_room_view.jpg

Here the portal around the window (green cube) allows light from the outside to come in but not take over the scene, it only follows the shape of the portal (which in this case could just be where geometry is not modelled in the LOD IE a cube with a square hole cut into it, with the hole being the portal.

This is the end result http://www.picshelf.com/images/lightbox_room_lighting.jpg No dynamic shadows have been created, it's all an optical illusion, essentially a dead zone with a hole cut into it.

The only lights that would render would be through that hole or lights positioned within said dead zone, but in example of the above, the light would not bleed through the walls and into the other room, only the doorway.

A LOD such as this could potentially achieve much the same effect without the demanding nature of dynamic shadows, stopping light from entering closed vehicles or houses, house lights from bleeding into eachother or from differing floors and more.

Edited August 23, 2013 by NodUnit

[tpw 2315]

Great idea, do you think it's doable with the current engine or would it need a retool? I'd also like to think that such a system would work in reverse and stop eg gun lights from units inside a room casting a beam outside it.

[old_painless 183]

This would be so great to see "improved", note that "totally fixed" is probably out-of-scope now. As it is currently, the lighting at night has serious tactical issues - you can be fully revealed when you are inside a building with a flashlight, gun attached or not.

[nodunit 397]

Possible? Sure anything is possible if you have access to the inner workings of the engine, time and money. The question is wether or not the engine is tailored for the function and how it alters performance, because this wouldn't be a simple matter of shifting the shadows inside out (which would just make the shadows appear floating) , we've seen that lights don't care about shadows so it has to be an fully new feature.

If it took mesh form then it would need to be a solid wall, otherwise light would seep out from behind the one sided face, and it would need to stop light from entering (unless there is a hole/portal present) otherwise if configured to ignore lights entirerly would make that you would be unable to make lights inside of it which would hurt the indoor scene just as much as having light always bleeding through.

It's definately problematic as it's really hurting nearly every tactical aspect of indoor combat, as you said people can see you so scenario's such as hiding in an unlit building for ambush are not possible because you would always be silloheutted thanks to nearby lights. It could also stop the "Meh" visual problems of lights going into vehicles when they shouldn't.

Edited August 23, 2013 by NodUnit

[giorgygr 61]

If you make a ticket.I 'll vote with both my hands

[SaBrE_UK 0]

I'd love to hear a dev's comment on this idea!

[nodunit 397]

As would I, but I doubt it will happen, certainly not during the data lock.