Correct Weapon Handling & Canting

[hoak 0]

Please fix the unrealistic and poor weapon handling/canting camera in lean; I mentioned this briefly in this thread but this is such eye sore and ridiculous oversight to realism as it's technically and metrically wrong, represents incorrect weapon handling, is aesthetically wrong and hideously ugly (the world does not tilt if you cant a rifle or even tip your head).

Other more arcady less realistic games get this right (Red Orchestra, America's Army, Ghost Recon, even Modern Warfare when it had leaning, and the latest iteration of Medal of Honor) -- and this is very easy to fix.

We're in the THIRD iteration of what's supposed to be the most realistic shooter in the world, and the first person player perspective weapon handling are the primary instrumentality of the game and it's being portrayed incorrectly.

Canting is aesthetically and functionally wrong (read why if you don't know about or understand this subject) as it's virtually always bad weapon handling to cant when aiming as it makes for very poor weapon control and accuracy. Virtually every approach to firearms training, military or civilian, will have you b*tch slapped for doing this from any fire position -- and it's completely trained out of most military riflemen...

What's more, and probably most importantly: correct un-canted weapon handling in lean gives the virtual Player vastly better proprioceptive and virtual kinesthetic cues as to how well covered he is (or isn't) when firing from cover in a leaning stance. Please, fix this glaring aesthetic and functional wart in ArmA 3!

Vote for the technical recitation here on the Arma III Tracker...

Edited May 17, 2013 by Hoak

[metalcraze 290]

Fourth iteration.

[hoak 0]

Are you trolling, or do you actually have some sort of point you're obtusely trying to make?

[blu3sman 11]

Are you trolling, or do you actually have some sort of point you're obtusely trying to make?

"We're in the FOURTH iteration of what's supposed to be the most realistic shooter in the world..."

Anyway, it is more productive to make a ticket on the tracker

so it will stay in "reviewed" status till the end of time

[afp 1]

deleted, I got it in the end.

[ratszo 17]

Interesting, and it make sense.

Did we have un-canted lean at first?

Seems i remember it reported as a bug?

[hoak 0]

My apologies metalcraze; I didn't know what you were referring to; at fist thought you might have meant that this topic was mentioned in four other iterations on the forum... I was thinking in terms of 'generations' of engine I think when I threw this post together, but I may even be wrong there.

Too swing things back on topic; even though the context of ArmA 3 is large combined arms -- the main instrumentality remains the rifle, and a more realistic better looking approach to weapon handling (and camera) then the cheap looking radial camera that tips the whole world 30° is over a decade due as there were games that got this right in 2000...

Ratzo, no, ArmA has always used this cheap, fast and dirty approach to the FPP camera in lean... Blu3sman, do you really think it's worth the effort to make a tracker post?

My impression is BI either has instant recognition of something as valid, and fix it, or they do not, and if they don't they need to be pounded by threads larger then some forums in entire over the course of years explaining every facet of the suggested change, and there needs to be a mod that executes and proves the change to motivate the change....

Edited May 16, 2013 by Hoak

[ratszo 17]

Think i found the related topic on the issue tracker:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=7219

I'm fine either way, just as long as the ballistics are correct.

[St. Jimmy 272]

..."Also, we will be looking at the grenades and handling of weapons: there is a big recoil enhancement going on, and some more cool stuff about which we can hopefully tell more in the near future."

http://www.arma3.com/news/report-in-lukas-haladik-sandox-design#.UZT2Dsrgyft

They are focusing on weapon handling so you placed your request in a good time and I agree with this.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Wow great blog post there.:butbut: So much win in it....

We've taken the need for a stance indicator into serious consideration, as it was one of the most requested features. But there's always work to do in terms of balancing. Hence, we've recently hired a new game balance designer. The interviews we did were really exciting as we tried a different approach. The applicants had to answer our questions while playing a co-op game, and also tried to design and balance some of the weapons. We wanted to create a different experience for the applicants and also explore their gaming skills, their designing potential, overall creativity and communication skills.

But to elaborate, balance is really important - not only for content assets, but also in terms of small tweaks in the AI behavior, reaction and precision. Our goal is to make the game enjoyable and believable, which means that we need to cross reference the game with reality, and make the best of it. You’ll probably notice that in firefights, you are often being shot at but not killed instantly. This is the way we would like to go. Before, the AI was really deadly. This is definitely not to say that Arma 3 isn’t challenging anymore, it’s mostly less frustrating.

Looking ahead, what will your team work on towards release of the Arma 3?

We really need to focus on the basis of Arma 3’s gameplay, which is infantry. I would like us to refine the controls and fluidity of the game play further. We also still need to revise the equipment, which can be improved in some aspects and needs more balancing. Also, we will be looking at the grenades and handling of weapons: there is a big recoil enhancement going on, and some more cool stuff about which we can hopefully tell more in the near future.

Stance indicator....bleh peeps just use the crosshair and do away with more stuff cluttering the screen.More realistic AI!!!Game balance designer??Big recoil enhancement?????????:yay:

[wipman 1]

Hi, you only use to lean IRL for:

A) See where the NME is/are (leaning a sec).

B) Do suppressive fire (to scare, not to kill).

You're not suppossed to engage anything beyond 100m with a 5.56, inf you shoot to kill; lean to shoot is for the urban combat and CQB, basically... short or very short range where the ballistics doesn't matter that much. Is not accurate fire at +200m that then is when you really need to be accurate for be deadly effective, controling your fire, the weapon and body possition, the breathing etc.. on the short range (the 50-100m range) you use the fire volume as "the tactic" to be effective, is on CQB (house cleaning) where you need to be accurate and fast, without need that much fire volume (unless the SAW and that) and is on the Mid-Long range where you need to be surgically accurate to be effective and having the fire volume as cover for your aimed shots.

Once said this... i can agree that the fire when leaning shouldn't be as accurate and deadly as the well aimed shots, they could do it IMO. Let's C ya

[hoak 0]

wipman there is a twenty-one page thread that discusses that topic in considerable depth here, this thread was geared to focus on the ghetto canting lean camera and weapon animation...

Anyone interested in seeing the canting (weapon and camera) addressed in ArmA III can vote for the technical recitation here on the Arma III Tracker...

Edited May 17, 2013 by Hoak

[max power 21]

Oh hai.

If you lean using the peek keys, (q and e by default), then he cants the weapon. If you use the shoot around corner stance keys, ctrl + a and ctrl + d, then he doesn't cant the weapon. He even switches shoulders. You can peek while using a side stance too. I guess BI heard we like leaning so they put lean in our lean so we can lean while we're leaning.

[metalcraze 290]

Wow great blog post there.:butbut: So much win in it....

We've taken the need for a stance indicator into serious consideration

https://community.bistudio.com/wikidata/images/e/e4/A3_commMenu.jpg

[Wolfstriked 11]

https://community.bistudio.com/wikidata/images/e/e4/A3_commMenu.jpg

:o I see no stance indicator in that pic?

[chortles 263]

:o I see no stance indicator in that pic?

He linked that before the image was replaced (same URL) with the one missing the weapon/stance HUD.

[wipman 1]

wipman there is a twenty-one page thread that discusses that topic in considerable depth here, this thread was geared to focus on the ghetto canting lean camera and weapon animation...

Anyone interested in seeing the canting (weapon and camera) addressed in ArmA III can vote for the technical recitation here on the Arma III Tracker...

Sorry if i didn't picked it right; the english is not my main language and as there wasn't any comparsion screenshots or photos... from there my mistake.

[hoak 0]

Is ok wipman, your English is fine and you've done nothing wrong -- that thread is very long too with lots of interesting discussion and suggestions.

I'm a bit intrigued as to why those voting down the Tracker Post are doing so -- as why would you vote against a feature that adds more realism, offers a lot more 'feel' for when you player mode is making good use of cover from the first person perspective, and takes very little effort to implement...

Even though this may be low priority, why would anyone vote against it in that case and not just ignore it? And why wouldn't they even make an effort in the notes to offer an explanation for your objection?

[ratszo 17]

Did alittle testing..., seems canted tilt on aco doesn't throw the aim point out as would be expected.

Years ago, i mounted a scope on a mk4 enfield with a tap&block kit --Scope was like near 3" above the barrel.

Boy, she was finicky..., slight tilt off the level she'd drop 6-8" and pull 2-3", at 300yds sighted.

Put alot of 'english' on that rifle.

Canting effect is real. We should have true balistics.

[hoak 0]

Canting effect is real. We should have true balistics.

Well, personally I'd rather see idealized and correct weapon handing and stance implemented first -- that is to say, represent how things are done in the real world most of the time. There are for example a lot of lot of things you can do with a real tank and other assets in the real world we can't do in ArmA III, but we have a decent, mostly consistent representation of how things actually work in the real world most of the time.

:confused:

Edited May 31, 2013 by Hoak