Learning to drive

[KingBeast 0]

Im still learning to drive, ahve been for motnhs and months now. Failed my first test, il lbe booking my next one this week.

Im not a bad driver at all, its just that nowadays (maybe someone can confirm this for me) in england at least, driving examiners are incredibly picky. You can fail jsut by doing little minor things wrong that arent even dangerous. So far all of my friends apart from one have failed their tests first time. One of em passed 5th time, which kind of sucks because its so pricy.

When I was out in America i got the chance to drive an automatic, and I have to say its a whole lot easier though not as pleasant to drive as a manual.

But in saying that, driving in America to me seemed a whole lot easier, because everything is so well set out. All of the roads are pretty much straight and criss crossed in a grid manner. No round abouts, just all straight. The roads dont have that organic feel that they do in England and europe with all the twists and turns and roundabouts, but its easy driving none the less

[jawk2 1]

i really hate the automatic car because u cant use the various gears to get a less reducing speed that ll not hurt your motor or brake.

I hate watching my parent that put the gear to none and hit the brake to stop at a signalizing light: generally i ask them to stop and park so that i can drive myself *and after few time like this they become to drive better*.

Lowering via gears, and too "double-gears" (u hit the clutch, get the gear to none, hit the accelerate, and hit the clotch and pass the gear, and accelerate... all of that in 2 seconds==> a technique used in old truck drivind *who generally got very harsh gears) theese technique are to learn for new driver.Same as the multiple hit on normal brake car *if u got ABS the car did it for you*, in case of emergency brake to not slip on the road cse of the brake.

Well i ll not mention the speeding corner driving and sliding that i ve learned throught 4*4 in the army *not essential to learn if u respect the speed limitation *

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kegetys @ July 20 2002,04:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here pretty much all cars are manual too, automatic gears tend to be expensive and people who have then say that they are really horrible to use in wintertime when the stupid thing switches to higher gear when you are trying to get out of a snowpile and you need lotsa power... I never really have had any problems with changing gears either <span id='postcolor'>

There is actually nothing really bad about new automatic transmissions, since the first auto tranny I can remember you were able to hold down any gear you want and rev it to what you wish. Old transmissions used to slip alot, producing more heat and less control. Newer ones are much better, especially on BMW's, Mercedes, Volvo, Lexus etc. etc.. The good ones even let you shift up higher than the auto tranny would like on it's own, so you can drive on low rpm just like a standard.

That solves the problem of wintertime... it really does, trust me, I am currently in Canada and drive a 300hp+ automatic.

Problem with 90% of people driving standards is that gears are spaced out way too close and people shift way too late... using up extra fuel while not accelerating much.

Problem with automatics is they use extra fuel on long trips.....

Another problem with standards is getting the power down with turbocharged applications, usually you are much better off with an automatic for turbocharged engines.

Oh and what you could consider a fun factor is a problem with automatics, while accelerating at the same rate, in a standard and automatic vehicle, you will FEEL 2x the acceleration in the standard car, giving you the illusion of high horsepower.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jawk @ July 20 2002,10:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i really hate the automatic car because u cant use the various gears to get a less reducing speed that ll not hurt your motor or brake.<span id='postcolor'>

Unless your brakes are overheating or weak, never use the engine to brake with, you are putting stress on components that are 100x more expensive than brake pads and rotors.

There is a nexception in rally driving where you may use an engine break just before going into a turn. (But for a split second)

Also, down shifting that takes 1-2 seconds, is VERY VERY long.

Maybe some ppl in Europe should really give the automatic a chance, it will make your ride alot less stressful.

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ July 20 2002,14:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When I was out in America i got the chance to drive an automatic, and I have to say its a whole lot easier though not as pleasant to drive as a manual.

But in saying that, driving in America to me seemed a whole lot easier, because everything is so well set out. All of the roads are pretty much straight and criss crossed in a grid manner. No round abouts, just all straight. The roads dont have that organic feel that they do in England and europe with all the twists and turns and roundabouts, but its easy driving none the less <span id='postcolor'>

Not really.Go to a big city ,all the roads are screwed up,why ? Because when they started the city(big city),they forgot to add roads,well kinda seems that way.florida drivers suck.Stay away from semi trucks.But i agree automatic is soo easy to drive.

[VerySolidSnake 0]

i live up in michigan, usa, and i started driving (legally) with a parent since i was 14 yrs old and 9 months. I got my license the day i turned 16, and have been driving every since . Oh cars are a good thing, but ya, i'd have to say that 90% of cars in america are automatic, while the rest are manual. I seriuosly think play Gran Tourismo helped me to start driving early, i aced all my tests the first time, it was to easy.

[Sadico 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe some ppl in Europe should really give the automatic a chance, it will make your ride alot less stressful. <span id='postcolor'>

No way i'm gonna give up my manual gears!

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Ive had my license for 1Ë years, and i have never driven a automatic.

A drivers license i REALLY expensive here in Denmark, where everything have to (legally, not practically) be done with a instructor sitting next to you.... a payed one.

You get training in how to brake the best (without abs), emergenzy turns, on slippery surface. The latter is the most fun. We actually had a bet going on who could make the most spins. Well, I can only imagine how boring it would be driving an automatic... just the constant sound when accelerating.. yuk.

Anyway, only had one accident, which was pretty lame, noone got hurt except the car and a garage

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ July 20 2002,11:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">0--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ July 20 2002,140)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When I was out in America i got the chance to drive an automatic, and I have to say its a whole lot easier though not as pleasant to drive as a manual.

But in saying that, driving in America to me seemed a whole lot easier, because everything is so well set out. All of the roads are pretty much straight and criss crossed in a grid manner. No round abouts, just all straight. The roads dont have that organic feel that they do in England and europe with all the twists and turns and roundabouts, but its easy driving none the less <span id='postcolor'>

Not really.Go to a big city ,all the roads are screwed up,why ? Because when they started the city(big city),they forgot to add roads,well kinda seems that way.florida drivers suck.Stay away from semi trucks.But i agree automatic is soo easy to drive.<span id='postcolor'>

Well driving in America and Canada may seem easy, but like you said, you never know what the other driver is going to do!

There is no proper preparation/testing like in Europe (especially Sweden). Anyone who doesn't spill coffe on a turn can get a license. It is really horrible. Also ppl here try to make driving as hard as possible for each other, instead of the opposite.

This is so evident when I watch ppl floor their cars just when someone is passing them, even in life/death situations. True morons on the roads here, and the head on collisions happen everywhere. (with roads that are so wide!

No brains.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Espectro @ July 20 2002,11:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can only imagine how boring it would be driving an automatic... just the constant sound when accelerating.. yuk.<span id='postcolor'>

You thought automatic was constant just wait, constantly variable automatics are coming onto the market, and I have to say, if they get them to be reliable, the future lies there.

Then there will really be a constant sound to accelerating.

[habdoel 0]

there are several ways to get your licence in Belgium. But you need to start with a teoretic(?)test and a few months later a practical test.First parking, knowing your car,... after that you have to go on the road(20 minutes). I live near to brussels and did my road test in the traffic jam.

however, after i passed my exam i crashed my dad's car.(citroën zx). there was some mud on the road witch maked the car go round straight into a small river. the car ended on his roof.broken glass everywhere, the passenger seat was under water and the roof was touching the dashbord. I had to brake the glass to get out, with not a single scratch.

i'v worked in a garage(peugeot) for 6 monts and drived many cars. But sometimes the garage was something to small for me. lucky we had a paint cabine.

after that i earned enough mony to buy a car (Fiat panda 1000) it served me 3 good months. My engine blew up when shifting back whit a lot of smoke, very much smoke( like the lynx smoke generator).

now i'v got a vw polo(old model) and this car is no way fun to drive, i hate the model and it is german. i'v only bought it cause i needed a car very fast.

so, when you are in belgium and you see a grey polo with blue back , park your car far from the road and waith untill i passed

[bn880 5]

lol

Beware of the fast polo, are you being sarcastic or did you modify the car?

[PiNs_Da_Smoka 0]

LOL, they still make Fiats? Silly Euros and your wierd cars

Fix it Again Tony!!!!

[RedRogue 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ July 20 2002,17:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jawk @ July 20 2002,10:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Unless your brakes are overheating or weak, never use the engine to brake with, you are putting stress on components that are 100x more expensive than brake pads and rotors.<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

Engine braking, or the practice of using the internal compression of a internal combustion engine to slow a vehicle is far less stressful on the internal components than you think.

Acceleration and constant high rpm runs are the most stressful uses of an engine. This is the time which the Pistons, Rings, Heads, Valve seats, Connecting Rods, Crankshaft, load bearings, heat from friction AND combustion, and Driveline are absorbing the stress of both the compression and combustion cycles.

During the practice of engine braking the pistons, rings, heads, valve seats, rods, etc. are only enduring the punishment of the compression cycle as there is little combustion or none entirely with a fuel injection system which does not inject fuel when the rpms are above idle rpm and the throttle plate is fully closed. During engine braking you can actually exceed the redline or maximum rpms capability of an engine with little worry about causing damage to the engine.

Engine braking can be used on manuals and automatic (This is what the selections of 3,2, L are for with automatics, that and when you want to restrict what gears the transmission with use such as steep hills and such) transmissions, however engine braking with an automatic can cause the torque converter to overheat with prolonged high rpms runs.

Try learning to drive CDL requirement vehicles such as tractor-trailer rigs where you can have 16,18,21 gears to use. The use of engine braking or jake braking on tractor trailers rigs is highly important because of the weight of the vehicle and more importantly the load you can quickly find your air pressure for your brakes expended or your brakes overheated to uselessness if you rely soley on your brakes themselves instead of using engine braking. And I can tell you from experience that it is not enjoyable to be placed in that situation.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RedRogue @ July 20 2002,17:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ July 20 2002,17:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jawk @ July 20 2002,10:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Unless your brakes are overheating or weak, never use the engine to brake with, you are putting stress on components that are 100x more expensive than brake pads and rotors.<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

Engine braking, or the practice of using the internal compression of a internal combustion engine to slow a vehicle is far less stressful on the internal components than you think.

Acceleration and constant high rpm runs are the most stressful uses of an engine. This is the time which the Pistons, Rings, Heads, Valve seats, Connecting Rods, Crankshaft, load bearings, heat from friction AND combustion, and Driveline are absorbing the stress of both the compression and combustion cycles.

During the practice of engine braking the pistons, rings, heads, valve seats, rods, etc. are only enduring the punishment of the compression cycle as there is little combustion or none entirely with a fuel injection system which does not inject fuel when the rpms are above idle rpm and the throttle plate is fully closed. During engine braking you can actually exceed the redline or maximum rpms capability of an engine with little worry about causing damage to the engine.

Engine braking can be used on manuals and automatic (This is what the selections of 3,2, L are for with automatics, that and when you want to restrict what gears the transmission with use such as steep hills and such) transmissions, however engine braking with an automatic can cause the torque converter to overheat with prolonged high rpms runs.

Try learning to drive CDL requirement vehicles such as tractor-trailer rigs where you can have 16,18,21 gears to use. The use of engine braking or jake braking on tractor trailers rigs is highly important because of the weight of the vehicle and more importantly the load you can quickly find your air pressure for your brakes expended or your brakes overheated to uselessness if you rely soley on your brakes themselves instead of using engine braking. And I can tell you from experience that it is not enjoyable to be placed in that situation.<span id='postcolor'>

Like I said, engine braking is completely illogical in regular passenger cars, you put stress on the entire drivetrain, including axels, differential, transmission, crankshaft, etc.

When u talk about trucks etc. that's a different story (I said overheating and weak brakes). And no in automatics the gear selection was not intended for any engine braking (not in regular ones), trust me, I have build automatic transmissions myself for dragracing.

If you brake with a normal automatic transmission you can wear out the clutch packs and the bands, as the pressure in the whole system is too low when the accelerator is not depressed.

My sound advice to everyone here is do not engine brake unless your vehicle requires it.

[jawk2 1]

truck generally got an additional way to slow down (a clip that reduce the gaz ejected (in french it's called "ralentisseur Å• main").

For emergency brake i ll use the standart brake(several hit and released for not blocking the wheels)... but for slow down i ll use both the brake and engine brake:

i first slow down with the brake (or "ralentisseur ŕ main" in a truck)  to the limit RPM and pass my gears down:

that's far better for passenger.

I ve conduct many guy in army french truck, guys were sitting behind. Believe me a driver that use only the brake will see all his passengers getting out at the first stop to "head-knock" him.

*dunno english term for  "coup de boule", when u use your head to strike a man*  

[bn880 5]

Well I believe you on that, trucks are very different beast from passenger cars.  Although I have seen people rent them here and drive them like cars.  

Edit: "head butt"

[Kep Kelagin 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ July 21 2002,00:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RedRogue @ July 20 2002,17:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ July 20 2002,17:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jawk @ July 20 2002,10:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Unless your brakes are overheating or weak, never use the engine to brake with, you are putting stress on components that are 100x more expensive than brake pads and rotors.<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

Engine braking, or the practice of using the internal compression of a internal combustion engine to slow a vehicle is far less stressful on the internal components than you think.

Acceleration and constant high rpm runs are the most stressful uses of an engine. This is the time which the Pistons, Rings, Heads, Valve seats, Connecting Rods, Crankshaft, load bearings, heat from friction AND combustion,  and Driveline are absorbing the stress of both the compression and combustion cycles.

During the practice of engine braking the pistons, rings, heads, valve seats, rods, etc. are only enduring the punishment of the compression cycle as there is little combustion or none entirely with a fuel injection system which does not inject fuel when the rpms are above idle rpm and the throttle plate is fully closed. During engine braking you can actually exceed the redline or maximum rpms capability of an engine with little worry about causing damage to the engine.

Engine braking can be used on manuals and automatic (This is what the selections of 3,2, L are for with automatics, that and when you want to restrict what gears the transmission with use such as steep hills and such) transmissions, however engine braking with an automatic can cause the torque converter to overheat with prolonged high rpms runs.

Try learning to drive CDL requirement vehicles such as tractor-trailer rigs where you can have 16,18,21 gears to use. The use of engine braking or jake braking on tractor trailers rigs is highly important because of the weight of the vehicle and more importantly the load you can quickly find your air pressure for your brakes expended or your brakes overheated to uselessness if you rely soley on your brakes themselves instead of using engine braking. And I can tell you from experience that it is not enjoyable to be placed in that situation.<span id='postcolor'>

Like I said, engine braking is completely illogical in regular passenger cars, you put stress on the entire drivetrain, including axels, differential, transmission, crankshaft, etc.

When u talk about trucks etc. that's a different story (I said overheating and weak brakes).  And no in automatics the gear selection was not intended for any engine braking (not in regular ones), trust me, I have build automatic transmissions myself for dragracing.

If you brake with a normal automatic transmission you can wear out the clutch packs and the bands, as the pressure in the whole system is too low when the accelerator is not depressed.

My sound advice to everyone here is do not engine brake unless your vehicle requires it.<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry to say, but braking on the engine ain't gonna hurt your engine in any way, in fact, when driving a manual gear car u will be teached to use the engine to brake..And, when using the engine to brake, u will have much better control of the car then only braking with your brakes . And when u won't use the engine to brake, but just push the clutch in and brake , the engine will get less lubricated as well, since the revs will drop and so the oil pump will pump less oil.In Holland, where I live, most cars have manual gear selection, since they are far cheaper then the automatics.

EDIT:

I didn't saw u were talking about automatics, so forget my comment, although its true on manual gear transmissions

[bn880 5]

Well sometimes it's good for the engine to engine brake, it can loosen piston rings and clear out carbon, but doing it all the time is BAD. It has a negative impact, even on the engine, but I am no just talking about the engine, if you read carefully, the rest of the drivetrain gets used for no good reason.

Better control? We aren't talking control here, not unless you are trying to race. I am talking about driving around like average people do. And how can you determine better control when you don't know if we are talking front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, or 4 wheel.

Oil; oil pressure is proportional to engine rpm, either you have a good engine with normal pressure at all rpm ranges or you don't.

You need less oil pressure with lower rpm.

Anyway, do what you want to do... nobody is paying me to convince you. What can I say, actually... you can explain to me how you are not using up your axels, transmission, and differential when you slow down a 1000kg car using them.

You might be fighting to engine brake cuz it's easier, when you are still using a manual transmission. Or maybe it's like a religion. So I give up.

[cybrid 0]

Engine braking puts far less stress on the drive train than it does accelerating. And in an auto trans. car there is always pressuser on the drive train even when you are braking the normal way, because the engine is still pushing. For someone who builds racin' transmissions you should know the science behind this better. In my (and my parents) cars I use engine brakes so much I almost forget to use the normal ones. My dad used to have a 1979 Ford F-250 (thats a full size pick-up for those of who live in countries that only have the compact kind) and he would engine brake all the time. That truck had over 500,000k on it when he sold it back in '98, and it never had a trans rebuild and had many origional parts on it. I guess "Built Ford Tough" actually has meaning behind it. My point is that engine braking saves on costly brake parts and has no more effect on the drive train than normal braking does.

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PiNs_Da_Smoka @ July 20 2002,20:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">LOL, they still make Fiats? Silly Euros and your wierd cars

Fix it Again Tony!!!! <span id='postcolor'>

What about ford

fix or repair daily

[Renagade 0]

Seeing as we`re on about driving what about motorbikes.

If i remember correctly,here u were allowed to ddrive motorbikes of different engine sizes depending how old u were but i dont know much else on them.

[cybrid 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Renagade Posted on July 20 2002,22:38

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Quote (PiNs_Da_Smoka @ July 20 2002,208)

LOL, they still make Fiats? Silly Euros and your wierd cars

Fix it Again Tony!!!!

What about ford

fix or repair daily <span id='postcolor'>

I'll say to you what I say to everyone with your attitude. Do you have any solid evidance that proves Ford is overall inferior to Daimler-Chrysler or GM? If you do some reaserch I think you will be quite unplesantly surprised. ha ha ha ha ahhhh ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ah ha........(continues evil laugh)

[bn880 5]

Don't forget to watch the F1 race tomorrow, and yes these cars engine break.  

EDIT: make that today in Europe

.

.

.

obviously a Religion

[cybrid 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">bn880 Posted on July 20 2002,22:46

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Don't forget to watch the F1 race tomorrow, and yes these cars engine break. <span id='postcolor'>

I don't really watch F1 (not that there is somthing wrong with it but im not really into open wheel racing), and i don't really see what you are getting at...