Silencers - Why do they exist in ArmA 3?

[4 IN 1 0]

If you have that kind of equipment, try turn up the sound volume so that un suppressed guns is as loud as the real stuff, only then can you actually compare the ingame suppressed weapons to their real life counter part and say how crap they are.

[Messiah 2]

Speaking of that national safety link, I wonder where in the hell they found a hair drier that's 4 times louder than a vacuum cleaner, if we're going by their 'doubles every three decibels' rule of thumb. That must be some hair drier, or a hella-weak vacuum.

The thing my missus uses to dry her hair should be parked at a gate at Heathrow

[white 1]

Yes it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel

are you sure?

"A change in power ratio by a factor of 10 is a 10 dB change. A change in power ratio by a factor of two is approximately a 3 dB change."

your link.

[max power 21]

are you sure?

"A change in power ratio by a factor of 10 is a 10 dB change. A change in power ratio by a factor of two is approximately a 3 dB change."

your link.

Okay, I think the issue here is the difference between the actual intensity of the pressure waves and the perceived volume. These are two different things. One is a physical unit of measure and the other is someone reporting what something sounds like, which is subjective and arbitrary.

[white 1]

Okay, I think the issue here is the difference between the actual intensity of the pressure waves and the perceived volume. These are two different things. One is a physical unit of measure and the other is someone reporting what something sounds like, which is subjective and arbitrary.

i agree that that pdf is subjective by not explicitly defining the model of the spoken objects, such as what motorcyle model, with what engine and what muffler its using for instance, those are just vague averages. but actual perception of sound is not subjetive , but it is measurable by db using eletronic sensors that verify how loud the sound is. our ears arent damaged necessairly by the physical air pressure the sound waves cause or its intensity, unless thats way intense, but usually by the loudness of the sound itself, because high pitched sounds dont make nowhere near the air pressure or low frequency sounds, but are just as damaging if not more.

the amount of air pressure thats impacted by sound waves depend a lot of the frequency used, and can easily be seen by low bass frequencies shaking everything up while not being loud enough to damage ones ears, and its kind of common in car sounds systems. but to me measuring that kind of sound intensity is a whole other subject that doesnt apply to the game.

to the game, imho, whats important it how loud it is to our ears and how far away one would perceive the weapons sound, and my guess that on open spaces, like most of the game, would be hundreds of meters since the sound would propagate without barriers.

edit.: i guess the intensity of sound waves based on air pressure/frequencies are relevant to the game when considering temporary deafening explosions with how theyr sound and affect peoples ears (buzzing/ringing), but thats beyond the silencer/supressor scope i think.

Edited March 20, 2013 by white

[swiftn7 1]

Okay, I think the issue here is the difference between the actual intensity of the pressure waves and the perceived volume. These are two different things. One is a physical unit of measure and the other is someone reporting what something sounds like, which is subjective and arbitrary.

i agree that that pdf is subjective by not explicitly defining the model of the spoken objects, such as what motorcyle model, with what engine and what muffler its using for instance, those are just vague averages. but actual perception of sound is not subjetive , but it is measurable by db using eletronic sensors that verify how loud the sound is. our ears arent damaged necessairly by the physical air pressure the sound waves cause or its intensity, unless thats way intense, but usually by the loudness of the sound itself, because high pitched sounds dont make nowhere near the air pressure or low frequency sounds, but are just as damaging if not more.

the amount of air pressure thats impacted by sound waves depend a lot of the frequency used, and can easily be seen by low bass frequencies shaking everything up while not being loud enough to damage ones ears, and its kind of common in car sounds systems. but to me measuring that kind of sound intensity is a whole other subject that doesnt apply to the game.

to the game, imho, whats important it how loud it is to our ears and how far away one would perceive the weapons sound, and my guess that on open spaces, like most of the game, would be hundreds of meters since the sound would propagate without barriers.

edit.: i guess the intensity of sound waves based on air pressure/frequencies are relevant to the game when considering temporary deafening explosions with how they sound and affect peoples ears, but thats beyond the silencer/supressor scope i think.

You just need to compare the given table in the Wiki. Reduction by 10dB results in 1/10th of the power ratio. It's based on a 10log(10) operation...

[max power 21]

i agree that that pdf is subjective by not explicitly defining the model of the spoken objects, such as what motorcyle model, with what engine and what muffler its using for instance, those are just vague averages. but actual perception of sound is not subjetive , but it is measurable by db using eletronic sensors that verify how loud the sound is. our ears arent damaged necessairly by the physical air pressure the sound waves cause or its intensity, unless thats way intense, but usually by the loudness of the sound itself, because high pitched sounds dont make nowhere near the air pressure or low frequency sounds, but are just as damaging if not more.

the amount of air pressure thats impacted by sound waves depend a lot of the frequency used, and can easily be seen by low bass frequencies shaking everything up while not being loud enough to damage ones ears, and its kind of common in car sounds systems. but to me measuring that kind of sound intensity is a whole other subject that doesnt apply to the game.

to the game, imho, whats important it how loud it is to our ears and how far away one would perceive the weapons sound, and my guess that on open spaces, like most of the game, would be hundreds of meters since the sound would propagate without barriers.

edit.: i guess the intensity of sound waves based on air pressure/frequencies are relevant to the game when considering temporary deafening explosions with how theyr sound and affect peoples ears (buzzing/ringing), but thats beyond the silencer/supressor scope i think.

Uh, first of all, perception is subjective by definition.

Second of all, the cilia in the ears are damaged by the amount they are moved indirectly by sound wave intensity. Higher frequencies are more intense for the same amplitude because they 'hit' more often. Hearing damage occurs at high frequencies more easily because the cilia tuned to those frequencies are smaller and weaker.

---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 ----------

You just need to compare the given table in the Wiki. Reduction by 10dB results in 1/10th of the power ratio. It's based on a 10log(10) operation...

The subjective experience of what is louder and by how much is slightly different. Some people say that 3 decibels is double, some say 10. The decibel scale is not a great indicator of how sounds are perceived because wave amplitude is not the only factor in sensory perception.

[swiftn7 1]

The subjective experience of what is louder and by how much is slightly different. Some people say that 3 decibels is double, some say 10. The decibel scale is not a great indicator of how sounds are perceived because wave amplitude is not the only factor in sensory perception.

True, but that's how it's calculated, not how it's being felt by an individual.

[max power 21]

True, but that's how it's calculated, not how it's being felt by an individual.

Then if we're trying to discuss how loud a suppressed rifle sounds compared to its non-suppress counterpart, we have a problem of construct validity. I don't think anyone here is really living and dying over the difference in pressure wave amplitude ratio.

[johncage 30]

You guys realize that subsonic ammo doesn't cycle bolt? And it's called suppressor not silencer plus in RL suppressors still pretty loud, even if suppressor is wet. Suppresors in arma 3 are way, way to quiet....

no, it was originally called a silencer. the only people who insist on calling it a suppressor are those who believe suppressor is a technical term for it that makes them sound knowledgeable.

[max power 21]

no, it was originally called a silencer. the only people who insist on calling it a suppressor are those who believe suppressor is a technical term for it that makes them sound knowledgeable.

Is that so? Are those the only people calling them suppressors, johncage? The people trying to sound knowledgeable?

[Sanguinius 1]

And then they called it a suppressor, both for the fact that it is more accurate (it suppresses the sound; it doens't silence it) and it does... sound... cooler...

I just want a flash suppressor; that would be a rather nice addition. For the added effect of scaring people at night (hearing big-arse gunshots, but not seeing the flash...

[swiftn7 1]

Then if we're trying to discuss how loud a suppressed rifle sounds compared to its non-suppress counterpart, we have a problem of construct validity. I don't think anyone here is really living and dying over the difference in pressure wave amplitude ratio.

I totally agree with that Sir, but claiming that a difference of 3dB is half or double the loudness is just false. That's all I wanted to point to, with the aid of a mathematical term. The subjective impression of loudness is totally different and not measureable, so discussing measured values on subjective basis is not leading anywhere.

[white 1]

I totally agree with that Sir, but claiming that a difference of 3dB is half or double the loudness is just false. That's all I wanted to point to, with the aid of a mathematical term. The subjective impression of loudness is totally different and not measureable, so discussing measured values on subjective basis is not leading anywhere.

well is good to know we have an Acoustical engineer here. its not measurable that it doubles, but stating it does its false, no matter that what you can measure, which is its intensity, shows it does double. right. again, you can state its false, even when you say yourself its subjective and you cant measure it. to me that sounds like "i dont know, and i cant know, but i know its false".

anyway, the point of this thread is that silencers/supressors ingame, imho, shouldnt exist like they are now, because as they are now, only exists on movies and arcade games, well, and arma 2. as opposed to reality.

now, the argument about how its called, its because silencers got too associated with how they behave in movies, so people started using the name suppressor that represents more accurately what it truly does. so basically is a better word for it, and deals with enlightening people about how silencers really work.

Edited March 21, 2013 by white

[kocrachon 2]

How about the game takes place nearly 20 years in the future, and a lot can change in how suppressors work by then? So to say what is realistic is already invalid because science advancements can change how well they work.

[swiftn7 1]

well is good to know we have an Acoustical engineer here. its not measurable that it doubles, but stating it does its false, no matter that what you can measure, which is its intensity, shows it does double. right. again, you can state its false, even when you say yourself its subjective and you cant measure it. to me that sounds like "i dont know, and i cant know, but i know its false".

anyway, the point of this thread is that silencers/supressors ingame, imho, shouldnt exist like they are now, because as they are now, only exists on movies and arcade games, well, and arma 2. as opposed to reality.

now, the argument about how its called, its because silencers got too associated with how they behave in movies, so people started using the name suppressor that represents more accurately what it truly does. so basically is a better word for it, and deals with enlightening people about how silencers really work.

You totally didn't get my point. It's the 10dB difference leading to the half/double of loudness, not 3dB. The individual impression has been brought into discussion by someone else, and that for sure is not measurable!

But yeah, you are right. It's about the silencers/suppressors of the game and not real physics/mathematics. I am done here...

[KyleCo 1]

Yup take a gun with any suppressor then put sub-sonic ammo in their and its pretty quiet. besides its a gameplay thing. people want to feel rewarded for finding a suppressor and even if it isn't realistic I would feel cheated if it didn't feel any different when I have a suppressor on my gun.

[max power 21]

The perception of volume depends on frequency, direction, position, duration, atmosphere, the area of the surface that is vibrating, etc. That work safety board believes that 3db constitutes a doubling in perceived loudness possibly in environments of constant noise in enclosed spaces, or what have you. I think to say that 3db never constitutes a doubling of perceived volume is almost certainly false.

[swiftn7 1]

The perception of volume depends on frequency, direction, position, duration, atmosphere, the area of the surface that is vibrating, etc. That work safety board believes that 3db constitutes a doubling in perceived loudness possibly in environments of constant noise in enclosed spaces, or what have you. I think to say that 3db never constitutes a doubling of perceived volume is almost certainly false.

I agree with you regarding the dependencies, but this "Noise-Thermometer" doesn't show any info about the measuring methods. It just states it's values without any background info and you take it as the truth. Of course it's much louder when you have your ear next to the sound emitting device instead of standing 1m away, and of course an alteration of the noise has much more impact the closer you are to the sound source. But for comparability you have to set up the same scenario to determine values, like given in ISO standards.

Let's just quit this, it's rediculous...

And a bit off topic: "Household noise - Shotgun" - 'Murica!

Edited March 22, 2013 by SwiftN7

[max power 21]

I agree with you regarding the dependencies, but this "Noise-Thermometer" doesn't show any info about the measuring methods. It just states it's values without any background info and you take it as the truth.

Speaking of that national safety link, I wonder where in the hell they found a hair drier that's 4 times louder than a vacuum cleaner, if we're going by their 'doubles every three decibels' rule of thumb. That must be some hair drier, or a hella-weak vacuum.

Okay, I think the issue here is the difference between the actual intensity of the pressure waves and the perceived volume. These are two different things. One is a physical unit of measure and the other is someone reporting what something sounds like, which is subjective and arbitrary.

The subjective experience of what is louder and by how much is slightly different. Some people say that 3 decibels is double, some say 10. The decibel scale is not a great indicator of how sounds are perceived because wave amplitude is not the only factor in sensory perception.

Yes... as you can see, there is plenty of reason to think that I am 'taking the noise thermometer link as the truth'. LOL

[swiftn7 1]

Yes... as you can see, there is plenty of reason to think that I am 'taking the noise thermometer link as the truth'. LOL

You NEED to have the last word, don't you?!

[max power 21]

This isn't a contest between you and me, SwiftN7. I was commenting on a misconception you expressed about what I was saying. If you have nothing relevant or nothing further to say on this topic, I suggest you stop spamming and move on.

[lee1hy 1]

M200 sliencer is very loud. BI know that controlling silencer sound, i think dont worry about "holloywood style"

[rye1 21]

M200 sliencer is very loud. BI know that controlling silencer sound, i think dont worry about "holloywood style"

And if you put a suppressor on a .50 cal... My God, this isn't a point, it's common sense.

[white 1]

so, any word on supressed weapons continuing as fake as they are? / have been on arma2 ?