French in Mali

[NoRailgunner 0]

Qazdar you better start using the "Kipling Method":

I keep six honest serving-men (They taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When And How and Where and Who.

Of course any conspiracy is free to believe and some "creative" people do make (or try to make) profit with. But hey maybe we are living just in a alternate world and there are other parallel worlds and realities? We just can't get there without loosing ourselves in time and space! Or should we use "The Boozer" thread to get things sorted out ... hmmm... Irish Whisky vs Scottish vs 'merican vs Wodka vs Schnaps - guess we have to try them all and find the best solution for all of the worlds crisis!! Lets get quick there before Slatts is drinking all the stuff there leaving us with Moderating Sparkling Waters here alone.... :D

[On_Sabbatical 11]

well,i feel like being in another planet ... i told you my opinion anyway !

France was in my country anyway and i know what they told they come for (protection at that time),and what they really did when they came ... 85 mines were created in my country when they came and only 4 majors mines after they left :P,but we're still a poor country exportating all our goods to europe so they can sell them back to us double the price :P

The Jihadist at that time were the guy who sent them back to their homes (with the help of the WW2),this time they came back and found a way to make the local population fight those jihadists :D

Edited February 13, 2013 by On_Sabbatical

[slatts 1978]

Also so I don't start posting drunk again ;)

[NoRailgunner 0]

Ssshhh Slatts I heard a mod stumbling around.... trying to be ssshhhssneaky ;)

[slatts 1978]

OK :D So those French eh? Just going into a country eh?!

....I think we got away with it ;)

[slatts 1978]

Suppose one good thing to come out of this is that for the first time ever Ireland and the U.K will operate alongside one another for the first time.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

That would be too "naive" ... check Africa's history !

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yes, it's better not to do anything and watch your neighbours die or suffer from radical Islam. The problem of Africa is the selfishness of most of its countries, particularly those who could help the others.

[scrim 1]

That would be too "naive" ... check Africa's history !

Yeah, because white men colonised Africa over a century ago, of course that's the only thing we're capable of doing. Really open minded, no prejudice there.

[slatts 1978]

That would be too "naive" ... check Africa's history !

Are you replying to me? If so I fail to see what you mean, Ireland wasn't exactly colonising countries forcibly, we were put there by the Brits :p

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Yes, it's better not to do anything and watch your neighbours die or suffer from radical Islam. The problem of Africa is the selfishness of most of its countries, particularly those who could help the others.

Dialog is the key,why no one cares about Syria then ? it's the same thing ... people get murdered everyday there !

Besides,there are no tangible proofs of people suffering in Mali as you said,just french guys running around and a bunch of locals crying for "freedom" ... has anyone tried to hear what those what you call "radical islamists" have to say ?

France is suffering a big crisis,they needed to go there to make some deals !

PS:(radical islam is a concept that exists only in media for me,no law in islam foments killing innocent people,there is not even a room for interpretation).

Edited February 15, 2013 by On_Sabbatical

[slatts 1978]

Then how come all over the BBC news I've seen videos of people being beaten on the street for breaking the "radical" law/rules. People being whipped for taking valuable historic items from Timbuktu to protect them from destruction. This coming from the mouths of interviews with Malians themselves.

RTE news had interviews with refugees with don't want to go back because they fear the threat of the radicals is still there. Where womens rights are almost non existent.

Dialogue is the key, yes. But last I checked these radicals aren't interested in dialogue.

[scrim 1]

PS:(radical islam is a concept that exists only in media for me,no law in islam foments killing innocent people,there is not even a room for interpretation).

Well of course Sharia law doesn't say "behead the innocent". What it says is that people exercising their human rights are guilty of crimes and deserving of corporal punishment.

[ProfTournesol 956]

PS:(radical islam is a concept that exists only in media for me,no law in islam foments killing innocent people,there is not even a room for interpretation).

Then there is nothing to discuss further, and nor about who is brainwashed.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

PS (radical islam is a concept that exists only in media for me,no law in islam foments killing innocent people,there is not even a room for interpretation).

erm.. slightly off topic but I am deeply confused on this issue of radical Islam - could you explain this one to me Qazdar plz? There seems to have been a campaign against vaccinations since 2002?:

12 February 2013 (Reuters) - Gunmen on motorbikes shot dead nine health workers who were administering polio vaccinations in two separate attacks in Nigeria's main northern city of Kano on Friday, police said.

No one claimed responsibility but Islamist militant group Boko Haram, a sect which has condemned the use of Western medicine, has been blamed for carrying out a spate of assaults on security forces in the city in recent weeks.

Some influential Muslim leaders in Kano openly oppose polio vaccination, saying it is a conspiracy against Muslim children.

In 2003, northern Nigeria's Muslim leaders opposed polio vaccinations, saying they could cause infertility and AIDS.

Their campaign against the treatments was blamed for a resurgence of the disease in parts of Nigeria and other African countries previously declared polio-free.

Polio, a virus that attacks the nervous system, crippled thousands of people every year in rich nations until the 1950s. As a result of vaccination, it is now only endemic in three countries -- Afghanistan, Nigeria and Pakistan.

link1

link2

Can I ask what the health workers were guilty of and why their deaths were ordered by Muslim leaders, also why is the polio vaccine against Islamic law? Various clerics across the Islamic world have condemned health workers to death over the past few decades for distributing medicine? I am unable to find anything in Sharia against it specifically?

A cleric in Pakistan's Punjab province has warned that a jihad would be launched against polio vaccination teams at a time when the World Health Organisation has expressed concern at the emergence of new cases of the disease across the country. The cleric went to the largest mosque in the area and declared that polio drops were "poison" and against Islam, The Express Tribune reported. link

Without immunization children are in danger suffering permanent disability or death. Are they guilty of something too?

Edited February 15, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Well of course Sharia law doesn't say "behead the innocent". What it says is that people exercising their human rights are guilty of crimes and deserving of corporal punishment.

Well definately,i have some gift at locking threads :D

I will answer you anyway :

Yes,Sharia is what it is ... but you're most likely badly informed (like BBC audience most likely),that part of sharia you're mentioning is the Hudud,people who harm the 5 important things in human life (Religion,Life,Honour,Reason and money) diserve a corporal punishement if all the conditions are met (only applicable for muslims) ,and yes this is not radical islam ,it's just the justice seen by Islam.

Thief ==> gets his hand cut !

Fornication ==> flogging if you're not married and Lapidation if you are.

Banditism ==> getting killed,exil or losing left hand and right leg !

Accusing people of fornication ===>(i dont have the word) but similar to lapidation

Drinking beer (this one is hard eh ? ^^) ===> flogging

All this is really harsh as punishement ... and conditions are very hard to meet ( 2 righteous witnesses for fornication,which most likely will never happen ... unless you do it in public),so it's more a dissuasive stuff than punishement !

Human rights came with Islam long time before,it's just that people are too lazy to read quran and prefer getting cooked informations from BBC ^^

@Mattari

Well ,to be as neutral as possible :D

I would say that being a****** has no religion,so that man thought something and tried to spread panic among people ! i don't know if he is right or not ! i can't tell what those vaccinations have inside of them,i mean other than what the ticket says ... same goes for all medications !

But there is a simple rule that i use in these cases ... let's avoid a big catastrophy by going into a smaller one ! in worst cases,if he is right ,i get a disease but i am safe from thousands other diseases :D

So,unless he invents some kind of alternative and stops talking ... let's keep using the current vaccinations !

Last point,to be a muslim you dont need a leader ... it's probably the only religion in which you can praise god without any medium !

The religion is innoncent of what idiots might do with it ! and this point is very important.

Edited February 15, 2013 by On_Sabbatical

[scrim 1]

The BBC is probably the last media source you'd like to critisize for being critical of Islam...

Can I ask you to justify the following:

Cutting a man's hands of when he resorts to theft to keep his family fed. (Thief)

Punishing a man for falsely accusing someone of fornication. If he sees it, and reports it, but there is no second witness, the verdict can only (in theory) be that of an aquittal. This would mean that the verdict points the sole witness out as having perpetrated the crime of falsely accusing someone of fornication, and the honest man is thus subjected to corporal punishment for his honesty, by this "divine" court.

How can you say that human rights came with Islam when you admit that a man is flogged for drinking beer? Now I'm Christian, and I know the Bible says Jesus drank, and even produced wine, an alcoholic beverage. Islam disagrees with Jesus being the son of God, but says he was a prophet, like Muhammed. How does it make sense to, when a well known prophet drank and produced alcoholic beverages to be consumed by the people who were present, flog people for drinking beer?

[slatts 1978]

Religion is just their excuse for power. "Do what I say or I kill you...no wait do what God says".

Religion was one of the same excuses for decades here. However it had nothing to do with it. Same in Mali, it's all about power for the rebels.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Ok,

I am happy you're asking questions !

I can tell you that nothing can justify ( i mean really justify theft),but i will return the question to you :A guy working in a mine 10 hours per day and gets his salary at the end of the month,quits the mine and gets stolen on the way to home ... how would you feel being that guy ? he doesnt have insurance ofcourse !

It's not really a matter of a day or two before you can give a judgement,and it's a matter of saying it one time ... it concerns people who are insisiting on accusing other people !

First,Islam is considered by muslims as the last brick of a house :),muslims believe in all prophets from Adam to Muhammad.

Islam didn't come at once ,it took 23 years ... at the begining it was not forbidden to drink at all... then started getting prohibited progressively !

Well,if you see Tariq Ramadan's conferences,you will understand that applying Hudud nowadays is not anymore possible,since they will punish the weak guys and let the big heads :) ,like what's happening in Saoudia.

Let's come back to Mali ... i will answer the question,i myself asked and you seem to ignore ...

Why Mali and not Syria ?

Because people in Syria say ,beside Freedom and Dignity, in the name of allah ... and that's why it's worrying everyone ,because of some geopolitical issues in the area ... if you see what i mean :P

[slatts 1978]

Why Mali and not Syria ?

Because people in Syria say ,beside Freedom and Dignity, in the name of allah ... and that's why it's worrying everyone ,because of some geopolitical issues in the area ... if you see what i mean :P

Mali is easier, somewhat more clearer. Syria on the other hand a fight between two evils.

On one hand you have Al-Asad, a dictator who crushes the uprising violently. However plays by the west's rules of leaving Israel alone.

And on the other, "Freedom fighters, rebels, terrorists" (Take your pick) funded by AQ, who don't want Israel there and if they get power there would be a greater risk of the destabilization of peace.

Geopolitical issues in Syria me and you can agree on ;) Why do Western leaders say Al-Asad must go? To please the idiotic public...aha I mean voters.. who think the issues are Black and White.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Geopolitical issues in Syria me and you can agree on ;) Why do Western leaders say Al-Asad must go? To please the idiotic public...aha I mean voters.. who think the issues are Black and White.

Well,BBC is not that bad :D

I cross fingers and wait what will happen in Mali ^^

I want to add something about Hududs : Even the prophet himself acted strangely when there was a case of adultery ... the woman at that era came to him and asked for lapidation ... he said go back until you put your baby and maybe you will also change your mind ... she came back after with the boy and bread in his hands (to show him that the boy can feed himself now) ... apparently he had no choice (the prophet) and didn't want her to get the punition ... but she insisted,and during the thing someone was insulting her -.- he told him to stop it and that she earned a redemption that can be divided on the whole city !

Same happened with Jesus ,when jews brought him a woman that had illegal relation ... he asked the most righteous of them to shoot the first stone ... they all left and let the woman with him ... he asked her to simply leave ...

The moral here : it's not really a punishement just for the sake of punishing,and most likely (my personal opinion) can't happen if the guy who committed the sin is not convinced that he was wrong ... and god always says after stating this punishements that if you seek redemption then the god will accept it ! It's really a dissuasive punition to keep a safe society !

Edited February 15, 2013 by On_Sabbatical

[antoineflemming 14]

Mali is easier, somewhat more clearer. Syria on the other hand a fight between two evils.

On one hand you have Al-Asad, a dictator who crushes the uprising violently. However plays by the west's rules of leaving Israel alone.

And on the other, "Freedom fighters, rebels, terrorists" (Take your pick) funded by AQ, who don't want Israel there and if they get power there would be a greater risk of the destabilization of peace.

Geopolitical issues in Syria me and you can agree on ;) Why do Western leaders say Al-Asad must go? To please the idiotic public...aha I mean voters.. who think the issues are Black and White.

Same deal with Egypt by the way. Same deal with supplying the Mujahideen during the Soviet invasion. The West keeps funding its future enemies... And, if they go against Israel, they make themselves an enemy of the US, so yeah, future enemies.

[slatts 1978]

The circle of life eh? ;)

[scrim 1]

Same deal with Egypt by the way. Same deal with supplying the Mujahideen during the Soviet invasion. The West keeps funding its future enemies... And, if they go against Israel, they make themselves an enemy of the US, so yeah, future enemies.

The Mujahedeen mostly turned into the Northern Alliance after the war and some fighting between themselves. The Talibans originated from the madrassas of Pakistan and didn't turn up in Afghanistan until the '90s, well after the war, and al Qaeda not only turned up very late for the war, they were also not funded because they weren't effective as they were foreigners in a very xenophobic culture, and the CIAs military assistance program was firmly based on assisting the native opposition groups.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Do you guys know that in France ,people started to rob butcheries and soldiers/policemen have 7 or 8 months non paid (salary) ^^

No guys,seriously ... you really think they're there to save people ? ^^ ,you really need to get out of the ArmA stuff to see what's really going on ,this is not a simple "Jackal ... give them hell !"

I live in the area and i know the setting,but i will start with a bit of history : (All my statements can be verified if you use google correctly)

The area (Mali,Niger and Algeria) is very rich when it comes to natural ressources,we're talking about huge mines of gold,silver and Uranium ... but still the population in the area is among the poorest (niger is the last one in the world) and people dont live more than 50 years in average ... The area also knows the expansion of big companies specialized in the extraction of fancy metals like Avera and as you can imagine a lot of people die in mines due to the conditions they work in during extraction process ,and meanwhile those companies pay presidents there to keep their mouth shut and dont even participate in any charity projects to help the population a bit (a real economic monster).

Any president in Africa who had enough of this and tried to play it independant to make the people get profit from the country's wealth got assassinated : i can remind as an example President Lumoumba or Modibo Keita etc ... in Mali they removed this last guy and placed a puppet called Moussa Traoré who was a real dictator serving France's interests ... and paying Islamic Fanatics to shut their mouth too while the population is living a hopeless life ...

Then came the Coup d'etat during which Moussa got removed by military guys and some elections were done,well let's say unfair elections ,population manifested against the results but ofcourse media-silence on the event and was never shown on TVs ...( Now , i need you to imagine the atmosphere,).

In this chaos,people had to turn to someone and it was those fanatics in the north (which have been financed also by France to fight against Kaddafi earlier lol), so they took the area ... while in Bamako,there are manifestations against the war which media don't seem to cover !

This is where France intervened,in a cloud of huge propaganda which consists of hiding the real objectives,making of the apparent ennemy a huge monster ,monopolising the information (have you ever heard Aminata Traoré or Ouma Mariko talking on TV about the subject ?) and also asking the wrong questions like "Will Mali be another Iraq ?" and stuff like this, which is jumping over the real question "Was the military forces the only way to do it ?".

The funny thing is that,countries like the Qatar who financed some special forces in Lybia to take down Kaddafi and is still financing separatist movements in the middle east and africa ! work hand in hand now with France and is supporting it in their actions there under the cover of war against terrorism ^^

USA is also in the game but on a higher level since they're making sure that chinese don't get in the area and "hijack" their profit by bringing their companies there ... and this is the exact reason why AFRICOM was created !

My country also lets the french planes to go over the territory and fly to there ... maybe,it has its share of the cake too since we have some serious economic problems too .

Well,concerning algery ... after the death of the president you will see how things will go to chaos :D

This is the new colonialism and countries exploitation,which started with Degaulle and the president of that period,that is the conitunuity of what we used to call enslaving ... the core is there it's just changing form to look beautiful for the audience which is naturally iconoclast and politicians know this very well.

Well the story is as simple as the story of the low-cost w**** that is being abused by predators like France and China under the eyes of corrupted parents in order to get fancy metals and save the economy of their countries while the population there will always stay in poverty ! and the media is manipulating the audience and orienting them to false debates to deceive them ! ... and is also exploiting the fact that masses are too busy with their jobs and stuff and don't have maybe the time to stop for a while to think about what they're being spoonfed !

Maybe we need to start asking questions on who are really the monsters in this story !

Forgot to mention the double face west is wearing .... sometimes helping the fanatics and sometimes fighting them lol !

Edited February 16, 2013 by On_Sabbatical