AI use MGuns vs tanks, apcs, why ?

[vilas 477]

i tried to use search before i post new topic, found something on devheaven it was about patch 1.07

but i have such problem on my game too , so anyone knows what parameter decide whether AI uses mg or canon or rocket ?

what parameters should be in config to make AI gunners in tank use canon vs target ?

T72 tries to use 12.7 mm gun vs. some of my APC and not only my , happens on different mods

damageresistance ? htmax etc. ? or those "ht" are for temperature and FLIR ?

Edited September 14, 2012 by vilas

[Beagle 684]

RL there is a reason to use small arms on armoured vehicles but in ArmA most RL tactics are quite useless so it must be somethign else.

The reason to fire at armoured vehicles is to force the crew to close all hatches and to blind optics or force to close optics hatches too....the second reason is that HEAT rounds from AT Launchers have to most devastating effect when the armourd vehicle is sealed and the overpressureof a penatraton will kill or knock out all of the crew at once. But I guess thats not the reason why A.I. uses MG on Armous in ArmA...albeit I noticed that turned out crew like the loader on M1A2 forces A.I. for fire small arms at it.

[vilas 477]

oooo c'mon don't joke

i have group of tanks that fire half hour to another APC

meanwhile this apc use 25mm cannon and destroys whole group of tanks

1 wheeled APC as a whole tank platoon killer ? o don't joke

APC armed in M242 or Mk 44 faster destroys tank than tank will to fire 125mm gun to this APC

once in one mission (mixed different mods) i had situation that one APC with M242 destroyed 3 T72 which not opened fire at this APC

or i had situation that 8 soldiers with AT launchers on backs do not opened fire at tank/apc which killed them one by one by one from 7.62

threat[] = {1.0,1,0.6}; ?

cost ?

what decides that AI use canoncore or mgun or mguncore or launchercore,

or maybe i wont too much (sorry, no time to test and play it) and still limitations of Arma2 are ... big

Edited September 14, 2012 by vilas

[kotov12345 10]

it is bug that sometime ai tank gunner uses mg instead of main gun.sometimes happens.I think related to fact that any target in game can be destroyed with mg.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Just a thought, try changing the order of your weapons in

weapons[]={

[bad benson 1733]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/CfgAmmo_Config_Reference#cost

sounds like cost definately has something to do with it.

[maturin 12]

Messed up configs.

But using a tank shell against something like a BTR or M113 would be a big waste in real life. 12.7mm will go in one end and out the other.

As usual, there's an ACE for that

[Sealife 22]

Armor

Mass

Cost

Surface or penetration material on fire geometry lod / bisurf

Threat

Type of ammo in assailants weapon , i.e hit factor etc

All these and skill slider f the ai affect the way in which a vehicle is attacked in my experience .

[vilas 477]

oooo mass, it is surprise to me

armor - maybe, yes, cause weak light APC (no matter it is armed in M242) is treated by tank like a car

and cost - so maybe reducing cost of tank ammo and rockets ammo is idea ?

i already gave cost =300 to HE rounds as BIS 1.59, but tanks do not prefere it over T72 NSV commander's gun (mixed various mods, my, CWR, others )

i am testing Aliens M577APC vs. CWR

i have big cost of Aliens APC 100 000 , and it has low cost of plasma shot, but shot is hit=45, it destroys BMPs but refuse to fire at T72

while it could destroy T72 with one plasma serie

meanwhile light APC wheeled with 25mm canon destroys few T72 (cost of 25mm ammo is bigger than cost of plasma shot)

all the T72 destroy APC and Aliens APC with commanders NSV :|

should i define AI-only weapon , doubled plasma gun and doubled plasma ammo that AI will use against tanks (the same hit but much bigger cost ?)

or Aliens APC ignores T72 because of other parameter (previosly destroyed group of BMP and ZSU and BTR)

i make Aliens and CWR mix LOL

Edited September 15, 2012 by vilas

[Sealife 22]

oooo mass, it is surprise to me

armor - maybe, yes, cause weak light APC (no matter it is armed in M242) is treated by tank like a car

in my experience total armour is a combination of Mass and Armor value in config .

AI fire there weapon based on what they think they can "takedown" , it complete theory however i believe , Material on firegeometry leading to Bisurf inside this density , thickness and all also counts maybe ( more likely only human will notice this) however AI in this game are so full of information about there surroundings i never discount anything :).

there are many many hings defined not only in ammo but magazines and eapons that could also influence , thats why i like only use 1 package , Ace / Project Reality / ECP , sometimes these little weapon packs etc only need alter one thing and all is broken .

However i respect all things of course , this is simply me liking consistancy ;).

[sakura_chan 9]

I've done a lot of AI testing to do with my upcoming mods, and I discovered something. For a unit in your squad, there is a difference between shooting at a target that pops up and shooting at a target that was assigned by the player. For example, if an AI tank is "free to engage" and an enemy tank shows up at a long range, on his own he will only lightly engage it with machine guns. Only at close range would he switch to cannons. If you actually tell the unit to target the tank, they will switch to the cannon even at 3000m+ ranges (I love 29palms haha). This might be an intentional system that was designed to stop your team from wasting expensive ammo like rpgs every time they detect some unknown vehicle far away. The low cost of a weapon would mean that it is okay to fire it at a distant target that might not be an immediate threat or part of the mission. A high cost weapon would be used only for immediate local threats and specific targets.

[vilas 477]

yes, i understand, but coming back to this "Aliens" APC,

"plasma" shots are like gatling, they destroy BMP very agresively, but totally refuse to open fire at T72, i can place on my map whole CWR mod East Side and M577 ( http://www.createforum.com/vilas/viewtopic.php?t=4&mforum=vilas ) opens fire only at BMPs APCs ,

of course with Polish mod situation is different, KTO Rosomak (AMV Patria) agresively destroys every upcoming T72, T80, T90, and none of the opens fire to Rosomak from their 125mm cannon,

silly situation, one Polish Patria with it's 30mm destroys group of T72, T90, T80s

hit of 30mm is 70, hit of plasma is 45, so maybe this decide mostly to not fire at tanks ?

but about tanks, hmm... cost is 300 of HE and cost of APC is 10000 and they not want to engage APC

BMPs fire their AT5 vs APC from time to time

OFP's CWR CWC missions are my test field , i put my addons vs Soviet side in CWC campaign to test their behaviour + editor too

Edited September 16, 2012 by vilas

[Sealife 22]

hit of 30mm is 70, hit of plasma is 45, so maybe this decide mostly to not fire at tanks ?

usually this wont matter however you should try ,

i think however when going to this stage , i would first see is weapon firing based on Cannoncore in both vehicles and what is GunnerCansee value maybe ?

[vilas 477]

T72 are CWR or BIS or my (mostly the same BIS config, only new models)

Aliens future APC M577:

class vil_Sh_40 : BulletBase {

hit = 45;

visibleFire = 10;

audibleFire = 5;

visibleFireTime = 5;

indirectHit = 10;

indirectHitRange = 1;

typicalSpeed = 1000;

explosive = 1;

cost = 100;

model = "\vil_apc\tracers\tracer_yellow";

tracerColor[] = {0.01,0.01,0.8,0.04};

tracerColorR[] = {0.01,0.01,0.8,0.04};

tracerScale = 5;

tracerStartTime = 0.01;

tracerEndTime = 3;

CraterEffects = "ExploAmmoCrater";

explosionEffects = "ExploAmmoExplosion";

};

class VIL_APC_40_mag : VehicleMagazine {

scope = 2;

displayName = "Plasma battery";

ammo = "VIL_Sh_40";

count = 1000;

initSpeed = 1000;

tracersEvery = 1;

};

class M242BC ;

class VIL_APC_40_gun : M242BC {

ballisticsComputer = 1;

soundBurst = 0;

scope = 1;

autofire = 1;

displayName = "Plasma shot";

reloadTime = 0.075;

sound[] = {"\vil_apc\apcgun.wav", 20, 1.1};

magazines[] = {"VIL_APC_40_mag"};

minRange = 1;

minRangeProbab = 0.1;

midRange = 250;

midRangeProbab = 0.7;

maxRange = 800;

maxRangeProbab = 0.1;

magazineReloadTime = 5;

maxLeadSpeed = 100;

autoReload = 1;

dispersion = 0.01;

aiRateOfFire = 0.3;

aiRateOfFireDistance = 500;

};

class Turrets : Turrets {

class MainTurret : MainTurret {

turretInfoType = "RscWeaponRangeZeroing";

discreteDistance[] = {200,400,600,800,1000,1200};

discreteDistanceInitIndex = 0;

scope=2; body = "OtocVez";

gun = "OtocHlaven";

animationSourceBody = "mainTurret";

animationSourceGun = "mainGun";

weapons[] = {VIL_APC_40_gun,vil_M355};

magazines[] = {VIL_1000_127,VIL_APC_40_mag};

minElev = -8;

maxElev = 45;

minTurn = -360;

maxTurn = 360;

memoryPointGun = "kulas";

memoryPointGunnerOptics = "gunnerview";

gunBeg = "usti hlavne";

gunEnd = "konec hlavne";

gunnerOpticsModel = "\ca\Tracked\optika_stryker_gunner";

gunnerForceOptics = true;

gunnerAction = "Stryker_Gunner";

gunnerInAction = "Stryker_Gunner";

memoryPointsGetInGunner = "pos_gunner";

memoryPointsGetInGunnerDir = "pos_gunner_dir";

hasGunner = true;

};

};

class vil_alien_apc : vil_apcBase {

htMin = 60;

htMax = 1800;

afMax = 200;

mfMax = 100;

mFact = 0;

tBody = 0;

damageResistance = 0.01849;

threat[] = {1.0,1,0.6};

fuelCapacity = 300;

terrainCoef = 1.5;

preferRoads = 0;

turnCoef = 5.0;

wheelCircumference = 10;

scope = 2;

displayName = M577 APC;

faction = "VIL_aliency";

side = TWest;

crew = "vil_uscm_sol";

armor = 450;

cost = 100000;

transportSoldier = 11;

cargoAction[] = {"HMMWV_Cargo01"};

model = "\vil_apc\vil_alien_apc";

vehicleClass = "VIL_alien";

hasGunner = true;

hideProxyInCombat = false;

gunnerCanSee = 31;

picture = "\ca\tracked\Data\ico\bmp2_CA.paa";

Icon = "\Ca\tracked\Data\map_ico\icomap_bmp2_CA.paa";

Polish Rosomak (Patria)

class VIL_B_30mm_ros : BulletBase {

hit = 95;

indirectHit = 10;

indirectHitRange = 0.1;

visibleFire = 32;

audibleFire = 32;

visibleFireTime = 3;

typicalSpeed = 1000;

cost = 30;

tracerColor[] = {0, 0, 0, 0};

tracerColorR[] = {0, 0, 0, 0};

tracerScale = 2;

tracerStartTime = 0.1;

tracerEndTime = 2.3;

airFriction = -0.0007;

muzzleEffect = "BIS_Effects_HeavyCaliber";

explosive = 0;

caliber = 3;

};

class VIL_B_30mm_roshe : BulletBase {

hit = 60;

indirectHit = 10;

indirectHitRange = 1;

visibleFire = 32;

audibleFire = 32;

visibleFireTime = 3;

typicalSpeed = 950;

cost = 30;

tracerColor[] = {0, 0, 0, 0};

tracerColorR[] = {0, 0, 0, 0};

tracerScale = 2;

tracerStartTime = 0.1;

tracerEndTime = 2.3;

airFriction = -0.0007;

muzzleEffect = "BIS_Effects_HeavyCaliber";

CraterEffects = "ExploAmmoCrater";

explosionEffects = "ExploAmmoExplosion";

explosive = 0.5;

caliber = 3;

};

class VIL_rosomak_mag : VehicleMagazine {

scope = public;

displayName = "ATM Mk 44 (APDS)";

ammo = "VIL_B_30mm_ros";

count = 120;

initSpeed = 1050;

maxLeadSpeed = 200;

tracersEvery = 4;

lastRoundsTracer = 4;

nameSound = "cannon";

};

class VIL_rosomakhe_mag : VehicleMagazine {

scope = public;

displayName = "ATM Mk 44 (HE)";

ammo = "VIL_B_30mm_roshe";

count = 120;

initSpeed = 1000;

maxLeadSpeed = 200;

tracersEvery = 4;

lastRoundsTracer = 4;

nameSound = "cannon";

};

class M242BC ;

class VIL_rosomak_gun : M242BC {

ballisticsComputer = 1;

scope = 1;

flash = "gunfire";

flashSize = 1;

displayName = "30mm ATM Mk 44";

sound[] = {"\vilas_npl\sound\30mm.wav", 17.7828, 1};

magazines[] = {"VIL_rosomak_mag", "VIL_rosomakhe_mag"};

maxLeadSpeed = 100;

magazineReloadTime = 1;

autoReload = 1;

modes[] = {"LowROF", "HighROF"};

class LowROF : Mode_FullAuto {

displayName = Mk 44;

reloadTime = 0.3;

burst = 1;

autoFire = 1;

multiplier = 1;

sound[] = {"\vilas_npl\sound\30mm.wav", db20, 1, 1200};

soundContinuous = 0;

soundBurst = 0;

flash = "gunfire";

flashSize = 1;

dispersion = 0.001;

minRange = 20;

minRangeProbab = 0.01;

midRange = 1000;

midRangeProbab = 0.01;

maxRange = 2500;

maxRangeProbab = 0.01;

};

class HighROF : LowROF {

showToPlayer = 0;

displayName = M242;

reloadTime = 0.35;

burst = 5;

multiplier = 1;

sound[] = {"\vilas_npl\sound\30mm.wav", db20, 1, 1200};

soundContinuous = 0;

soundBurst = 0;

flash = "gunfire";

flashSize = 1;

dispersion = 0.001;

minRange = 20;

minRangeProbab = 0.2;

midRange = 1000;

midRangeProbab = 0.7;

maxRange = 2000;

maxRangeProbab = 0.1;

};

};

class VIL_rosomak_bazowy : vil_heavy_engine_acar {

vehicleClass = "VIL_polskie_veharm";

driverForceOptics = 1;

faction = "VIL_NWP_Army";

side = 1;

scope = 1;

crew = "VIL_SOLDIER_NWP_DRV";

displayName = Rosomak;

model = "\vilas_npl\VIL_rosomak";

picture = "\Ca\wheeled2\data\UI\Picture_LAV25_CA.paa";

Icon = "\vilas_npl\icomap_kto_CA.paa";

mapSize = 8;

enableGPS = 1;

type = VArmor;

cost = 10000;

fuelCapacity = 300;

canFloat = 1;

startEngine = 1;

hasGunner = true;

accuracy = 0.5; // accuracy needed to recognize type of this target

nameSound = "brdm";

transportAmmo = 0;

transportMaxMagazines = 100;

transportMaxWeapons = 10;

weapons[] = {};

turning = 1;

magazines[] = {};

maxSpeed = 100; // max speed on level road, km/h

driverAction = "HMMWV_Driver";

cargoAction[] = {"Stryker_Cargo01"};

cargoIsCoDriver[] = {1, 0};

viewCargoShadow = true;

hasCommander = true;

commanderCanSee = 30;

gunnerCanSee = 30;

armorWheels = 2.0;

class VIL_rosomak : VIL_rosomak_bazowy {

scope = public;

side = 1;

vehicleClass = "VIL_polskie_veharm";

crew = "VIL_SOLDIER_NWP_DRV";

displayName = Rosomak;

model = "\vilas_npl\VIL_rosomak";

picture = "\Ca\wheeled2\data\UI\Picture_LAV25_CA.paa";

Icon = "\vilas_npl\icomap_kto30_CA.paa";

mapSize = 8;

armor = 170;

type = VArmor;

cost = 10000;

fuelCapacity = 300;

canFloat = 1;

startEngine = 1;

hasGunner = true;

accuracy = 0.5; // accuracy needed to recognize type of this target

transportSoldier = 8;

transportAmmo = 0;

transportMaxMagazines = 100;

transportMaxWeapons = 10;

weapons[] = {};

turning = 1;

magazines[] = {};

hasCommander = true;

commanderCanSee = 30;

gunnerCanSee = 30;

hideProxyInCombat = 0;

class Turrets : Turrets {

class MainTurret : MainTurret {

discreteDistance[] = {400,600,1000,1200};

discreteDistanceInitIndex = 0;

turretInfoType = "RscWeaponRangeZeroing";

class OpticsIn {

class Wide {

initAngleX = 0;

minAngleX = -30;

maxAngleX = 30;

initAngleY = 0;

minAngleY = -100;

maxAngleY = 100;

initFov = 0.155;

minFov = 0.155;

maxFov = 0.155;

visionMode[] = {"Normal", NVG, "Ti"};

thermalMode[] = {0, 1};

gunnerOpticsModel = "\ca\tracked_e\gunnerOptics_M2A2";

gunnerOpticsEffect[] = {};

};

class Narrow : Wide {

gunnerOpticsModel = "\ca\tracked_e\gunnerOptics_M2A2_2";

initFov = 0.047;

minFov = 0.047;

maxFov = 0.047;

};};

body = "OtocVez";

gun = "OtocHlaven";

animationSourceBody = "mainTurret";

animationSourceGun = "mainGun";

hasGunner = true;

enableManualFire = 1;

memoryPointsGetInGunner = "pos driver";

memoryPointsGetInGunnerDir = "pos driver dir";

soundServo[] = {"\ca\wheeled\Data\Sound\servo4", db-52, 1.0};

weapons[] = {VIL_rosomak_gun, PKT};

magazines[] = {"VIL_rosomak_mag", "VIL_rosomak_mag", "VIL_rosomakhe_mag", "VIL_rosomakhe_mag","1500Rnd_762x54_PKT"};

minElev = -8;

maxElev = 89;

minTurn = -360;

maxTurn = 360;

class ViewGunner {

initAngleX = 5;

minAngleX = -65;

maxAngleX = 85;

initAngleY = 0;

minAngleY = -150;

maxAngleY = 150;

initFov = 0.7;

minFov = 0.25;

maxFov = 1.1;

};

class ViewOptics {

initAngleX = 5;

minAngleX = -30;

maxAngleX = 30;

initAngleY = 0;

minAngleY = 0;

maxAngleY = 0;

initFov = 0.4;

minFov = 0.1;

maxFov = 0.4;

};

gunnerOpticsModel = "\ca\weapons\2Dscope_BMPgun";

gunnerForceOptics = true;

gunnerAction = "Abrams_Gunner";

gunnerInAction = "Abrams_Gunner";

forceHidegunner = 1;

startEngine = 0;

viewGunnerInExternal = 1;

};

as you see Rosomak is nearly 3 times weaker, than APC

APC is like tank , 450, and T72 use only NSV/DSHKM against it