Ouya! Time for game Developers like BIS to move to an open platform?

[walker 0]

Hi all

Considering the move of Micky Soft to lock sales of games to Micky Soft's own proprietary retail out let and grab the lions share of profits. Is it there for time to switch ArmA's future iterations to Linux and the Ouya/Android platform?

The Console is Sub 100 Dollars and will convert your TV to an Internet TV.

It uses the Tegra Graphics which BIS already have some experience with.

It is Android so conversion to phone apps will be easier

It is pro Modder and Developer, so it is right down BIS's street.

Final Fantasy developers Square Enix Japan are in:

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-features/65073-ouya-clinches-final-fantasy-deal

Kind Regards walker

Edited August 1, 2012 by walker

[dm 9]

Yes, lets take a game that barely runs on a top end PC now and port it to something as powerful as a cellphone.

[Robster 11]

ok. BIS is already flirting with non windows based OS... remember arma shooting range, which means that they are aware about possible future markets... but when developing something like arma somewhere else is involved, i guess that some other questions should be answered before... i.e. how about linux being a serious industry gamer platform... afaik there are some compatibility issues that often times are not much easy to resolve... so difficulties of this kind may be a huge cost just to afford at current market stage... perhaps if we consider a product which can be sold for a medium class or common pc it could be interesting... of course, i would happily move to linux if a3 or even a4 would run on it, but it's quite difficult to imagine, and even more when you realise that BIS has set a high quality standard that community won't trade... so how could they be selling top pc games for pretty much high end machines over a non win based framework? perhaps you're thinking about an OFP likewise revival... an app less "hungry" which retains what may be offered by BIS...

what do you say?

saludines pepón!

[batto 17]

i would happily move to linux if a3 or even a4 would run on it, but it's quite difficult to imagine, and even more when you realise that BIS has set a high quality standard that community won't trade ... perhaps you're thinking about an OFP likewise revival... an app less "hungry" which retains what may be offered by BIS...

Why do you think that Windows is "better" for "hungry" (cpu/gpu/memory?) stuff?

[walker 0]

Hi all

More Developers are switching. http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/07/31/firefall-dev-likes-ouya-doubts-sony-and-microsofts-console-future/

As others have pointed out Valve is looking at Ouya too.

The biggest problem ArmA has with Windows is the operating system itself which as we all know is terribly bloated.

Graphically and CPU wise Ouya is capable. Since Ouya will be physically modable increasing memory could be on the cards and USB means any needed control system can be added. In fact boxing a Modders version of ArmA with a hardware expansion pack might be an excelent way of monetizing the game.

Kind Regards walker

[Robster 11]

Why do you think that Windows is "better" for "hungry" (cpu/gpu/memory?) stuff?

That's a wrong assumption... I do not think that. C'mon! I've ran on slackware and puppylinux! So, we barely tend to note that windows needs a lot of resources for itself, which means windows isn't necessarily better for stressing apps... but get to the point, my point: high end gaming machines on linux are somehow difficult to imagine... i.e.: do you know if latests GPUs drivers are available for ubuntu? Last time I worried about it, I did find nothing but some sort of a buggy -very buggy- patched app... that's what i'm talking about... linux can afford huge CPU consuming apps easily, but how many modern pc games rely on linux as a serious choice... I did notice, for instance, that WOW runs flawlessly on linux... but a whole new wow linux version is a different story... if BIS think it's worth the effort I will certainly move with them... so let's stay less off-topic and avoid turnarounds...

@dear Walker: I'm still trying to figure out all what you mean... some remarkable members of game industry are moving out to new platforms... right... BIS isn't an exception... adapt/evolve/prevail they say...

[rangerpl 13]

Yes walker, obviously if I installed an open source operating system instead of that bloated piece of shit Windows, I'm sure my Pentium II with 128MB of RAM could run ArmA 3 on max graphics with over 9000 fps.

After all it's a well known fact that Microsoft cooperates with hardware manufacturers to degrade performance, thus driving sales of new components.

Damn capitalist pigs. I'm glad we saw through their lies and deceit.

BRB installing linux.

Edited August 1, 2012 by RangerPL

[batto 17]

Yes walker, obviously if I installed an open source operating system instead of that bloated piece of shit Windows, I'm sure my Pentium II with 128MB of RAM could run ArmA 3 on max graphics with over 9000 fps.

Your Pentium II with 128MB is slow crap compared to current smartphones and tablets.

[PELHAM 10]

i.e.: do you know if latests GPUs drivers are available for ubuntu?

That is a valid point - when I bought my AMD HD 6970 I had to wait 6 months for the drivers to catch up on Ubuntu, when I complained I got 1 word back, "patience". Patience I have, but 6 months (total of about 9 months since the card was on the market)! I'm not sure if things are any better now - they were at a bit of a crossroads in graphics development at the time. Apart from that can't really complain, everything else has always worked.

EDIT - looks like things are more organised - the HD7970 had support after a few months.

Edited August 2, 2012 by PELHAM

[jblackrupert 14]

Ubuntu is just as bloated as Windows and just keeps getting more bloating every year.

Started out good and now just suffers from kitchen sink syndrome. Kinda like Utorrent before it was sold.

[Kindling 1]

I hope that BiS follows Valve and others by looking to migrate to Linux, too :)

That said, Ouya and similar systems may not necessarily have the throughput and a suitable architecture to run the ARMA II or III engine - these devices are made for very different workloads. It could be difficult to adapt ARMA II to such devices because of these differences, especially AI and rendering. Another issue is the user interface - it would need a LOT of work to adapt the UI to something comfortable to use on a console, or even a tablet or phone.

Technologically, I think it's possible. But is there really such a big milsim market on consoles, phones and tablets? I doubt it. Maybe we should just all look for a Linux Desktop port. This would increase portability to pretty much any x86 system without having to look at adapting to ARM or console.

[gossamersolid 155]

I don't think there's enough power in this console for an "ArmA" scope game. But it's definitely an interesting concept to have an "open source" console.

[batto 17]

In reply to this OT post from Iroquis Pliskin.

bloated

Erm, what? (people that complain about some SW being bloated usually don't know what are they talking about).

zero details

What details are you missing?

the sole video shows them sitting there like clowns, designing a joystick 70% of the time.

Again, what are you expecting?

TBH there's more useful information in their PR video than in your critique full of crap.

Google Nexus 7 tablet is $199; the delusion which had been named "Ouya" is supposedly $99 - is NVIDIA going to sell these clowns Tegra 3 SoCs for $49 or less?

Ouya doesn't have touch screen. Also it'll not have thin design like tablets (hence cheaper power management).

Besides, specs in the ARM architecture move at the rate of Moore's Law, and I don't see such a "console" being upgradeable.

What the hell are you talking about? 1) Moore's law is exponential growth, 2) It can run on x86 too.

So, you have some independent 3rd party 99 cent Android media player developer as the only pillar for success? They could become victims of this scam also

Nope, they can't. Try to figure why as your homework.

which leads me to XBOX 720 and Windows 8 - Win 8 is actually a platform designed for the new upgradeable XBOX by Microsoft, and their recent patents do show that.

The master plan is to have the latest XBOX console running the same OS as PCs, presumably allowing same games to be played on both, which would be a blessing to developers and the death of console ports for PC. This may be the reason why VALVe is scared of Windows 8 - you won't be seeing the new XBOX games on Steam either way.

Maybe. Can you list those patents plase? By the way, do you realize that SW patents is complete BS?

Now you can see Microsoft's strategy, though it may become redundant if the new XBOX console becomes a PC de facto with upgradeable components, but I think MSFT knows its game and it will feature new proprietary connectors and PCB.

Whatever, Ouya will be upgradable from day 0 (without MS blessing).

Edited August 8, 2012 by batto

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

In reply to this OT post from Iroquis Pliskin.

I'd appreciate if you didn't cherry pick each single word and rather focus on the whole sentence.

Erm, what? (people that complain about some SW being bloated usually don't know what are they talking about)

What details are you missing?

How are people going to develop for this proprietary "console" and is there going to be further fragmentation in the mobile market due to their obsolete concept as a result? The majority of Android/mobile applications are developed with touchscreens and accelerometers in mind, and these things will not change.

Again, what are you expecting?

TBH there's more useful information in their PR video than in your critique full of crap.

That's the thing: no useful information as to the benefits of buying this box as opposed to a generic Android smartphone, or an XBOX/PS3. I'm not expecting anything after reviewing their plans.

Ouya doesn't have touch screen. Also it'll not have thin design like tablets (hence cheaper power management).

I'm not sure what cheaper power management has to do with anything, but my point was that Android gaming and multimedia is about mobility and not, I quote their own words, "Cracking open the last closed platform: the TV. A beautiful, affordable console -- built on Android".

What the hell are you talking about? 1) Moore's law is exponential growth, 2) It can run on x86 too.

The point is about hardware becoming obsolete within 18 months of shipping with no further upgrades possible, thus prompting another purchase for only $99.99.

1) Correct and the hardware performance doubles every 18-24 months in the computing world, it is even more relevant to the mobile market because of the immaturity of architecture.

2) You will not cram a x86 processor into that little box and if you do, the cost won't be $99, besides they're positioning themselves to be in the ARM market for whatever reason. Specs list a Tegra 3 SoC.

Maybe. Can you list those patents plase? By the way, do you realize that SW patents is complete BS?

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/microsoft-patent-describes-scalable-xbox-720/

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20120159090.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120159090&RS=DN/20120159090

If the new XBOX 720 can run Windows 8, then it will replace HTPCs, along with regular PCs in the casual herp-a-derp user's home - multimedia & AAA-class gaming, coupled with Internet browsing. Needless to say, "Ouya" can't compete.

P.S. If Kickstarter wasn't limited to the United States citizens, I'd think those 50k muppets who had donated were from some 3rd world country with a population in the hundreds of millions, donating in the hopes of having quality entertainment comparable to PS3/XBOX for just $99.99.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[batto 17]

How are people going to develop for this proprietary "console"

I guess they'll have to read Android documentation first, probably this https://developer.android.com/tools/sdk/ndk/index.html.

and is there going to be further fragmentation in the mobile market due to their obsolete concept as a result? The majority of Android/mobile applications are developed with touchscreens and accelerometers in mind, and these things will not change.

1) What do you mean by "obsolete concept?

2) Ouya! has nothing to do with mobile market just because it runs on Android. Stop mixing these two things please.

That's the thing: no useful information as to the benefits of buying this box as opposed to a generic Android smartphone, or an XBOX/PS3. I'm not expecting anything after reviewing their plans.

The benefit is that it'll work out of box as gaming console / media center. It's like asking what are benefits of Xbox compared to PC.

I'm not sure what cheaper power management has to do with anything, but my point was that Android gaming and multimedia is about mobility and not, I quote their own words, "Cracking open the last closed platform: the TV. A beautiful, affordable console -- built on Android".

Again, mobile market has nothing to do with Ouya! just because it uses Android. Android is just OS.

The point is about hardware becoming obsolete within 18 months of shipping with no further upgrades possible, thus prompting another purchase for only $99.99.

1) Correct and the hardware performance doubles every 18-24 months in the computing world, it is even more relevant to the mobile market because of the immaturity of architecture.

2) You will not cram a x86 processor into that little box and if you do, the cost won't be $99, besides they're positioning themselves to be in the ARM market for whatever reason. Specs list a Tegra 3 SoC.

Unfortunately there's no other way than buying better HW when your current HW becomes obsolete.

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20120159090.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120159090&RS=DN/20120159090

Patents in US are so flawed...

If the new XBOX 720 can run Windows 8, then it will replace HTPCs, along with regular PCs in the casual herp-a-derp user's home - multimedia & AAA-class gaming, coupled with Internet browsing. Needless to say, "Ouya" can't compete.

It isn't anything new or exciting or something that can't be done on Ouya!. Only advantage for average person seems to be those (dumb) AAA games.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I guess they'll have to read Android documentation first, probably this https://developer.android.com/tools/sdk/ndk/index.html.

I guess they will. Well, good luck to developers in subsidising this "console" with their free games.

1) What do you mean by "obsolete concept?

2) Ouya! has nothing to do with mobile market just because it runs on Android. Stop mixing these two things please.

1) A limited utility console box, which will be grounded in the living room 99% of the time, coupled with a generic design joystick - obsolete concept.

2) Really? Are Android games going to run on this "Ouya"? Who is the main competitor for this "Ouya": Nintendo, PS Vita? There has to be somebody, closest link is touchscreen smartphones with (mini-)HDMI outputs.

Again, mobile market has nothing to do with Ouya! just because it uses Android. Android is just OS.

ARM processors has everything to do with mobile. These "Ouya" clowns aren't even developing their own motherboards/PCB probably, nor are they going to use the x86 architecture. They are stuck to ARM and are in direct competition to simple smartphones, which are being mass produced in tens of millions of units each quarter.

Patents in US are so flawed...

It isn't anything new or exciting or something that can't be done on Ouya!. Only advantage for average person seems to be those (dumb) AAA games.

The point of bringing up MSFT's patent regarding their new XBOX is to emphasise the fact that they are working on it, and it will be vastly different to current generations of consoles.

Success is not guaranteed by patents - that's agreeable, but Windows 8 on this machine pretty much does.

P.S. "AAA-dumb games" as opposed to "Ouya" 99 cent Arcade games? ;););)

[Sakowski 1]

Do whats ya want, but even pretteh name wont take me away from my PC!

Either way for me, this console is just another waist of money and time.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Sakowski

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Time's up,

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console/comments

Byron Roman about 4 hours ago

Okay, seriously, this lack of social connectivity between the OUYA staff and the community is making me want to go to my bank and tell them that I did not authorize any payment to boxer8 and that I want my money back........

Kevin Phan about 10 hours ago

imagine in like 20 more years, only 7.7k people have the limited edition OUYA, assuming that you guys keep your word on Limited and it would be worth so much.

Hungrymonkey80 about 14 hours ago

@ Garrood D: I'm worried too. The website looks not like a professional/corporate website should. And after the successfull funding I expected an update within minutes from Julie with a "Thank you all" and "we are working now on ... and ... and ...". But since update #12 we didn't hear anything from Julie. I'm realy getting nervous right now! Maybe I should contact my legal protection insurance...

Garrood Dynasty about 15 hours ago

I'm a bit worried with the ouya website looking so lame ass it's no wonder people think they may take off. And if they don't put any effort into their e3 exhibit either people will think they are a joke. It's not like they have to spend a fortune people don't expect that but they expect you to show SOME pride in your product not just do the barest minimum. It looks dodgy.

What do you guys think?

Eric0965 about 22 hours ago

I got $190 down :D And this may be a stupid question... but is new OUYA.tv site down? I just get reverted to the Ouya kickstarter homepage...

Haha. Fucking clowns. Hilarious.

Tulip mania can happen anytime, anywhere.

[Sakowski 1]

I had a dream... Of it dyin.

Perhaps?

[batto 17]

@Iroquois Pliskin: Sorry for delay and initial aggression.

I guess they will. Well, good luck to developers in subsidising this "console" with their free games.

AFAIK Square Enix is porting Final Fantasy to it. Not sure for what price and how it's going to be sold but I don't believe it'll be for free.

1) A limited utility console box, which will be grounded in the living room 99% of the time, coupled with a generic design joystick - obsolete concept.

Why obsolote? It seems to be hot these days (PS3, Xbox, Wii).

2) Really? Are Android games going to run on this "Ouya"? Who is the main competitor for this "Ouya": Nintendo, PS Vita? There has to be somebody, closest link is touchscreen smartphones with (mini-)HDMI outputs.

Not sure, but I don't think so since it doesn't have touch screen. I'm also not sure about the competition. Why does it matter anyway?

ARM processors has everything to do with mobile. These "Ouya" clowns aren't even developing their own motherboards/PCB probably, nor are they going to use the x86 architecture. They are stuck to ARM and are in direct competition to simple smartphones, which are being mass produced in tens of millions of units each quarter.

Just because 90% of them is used in mobile devices doesn't mean that anything ARM based has anything to do with Android apps market (there are also ARM based servers). I don't get the logic why using ARM as a processor makes you smartphone competitor. These two have obviously different controls, use cases, ...

The point of bringing up MSFT's patent regarding their new XBOX is to emphasise the fact that they are working on it, and it will be vastly different to current generations of consoles.

Success is not guaranteed by patents - that's agreeable, but Windows 8 on this machine pretty much does.

Yeah, I believe Ouya cannot stand chance too given the HW that will be in future Xbox. But it seems OK as a cheap living room multimedia device. By the way, at least in US, I think patents can to some degree help success.

P.S. "AAA-dumb games" as opposed to "Ouya" 99 cent Arcade games?

Hehe. We can discuss which of them are dumber =). But I'm no target audience of either for sure.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

AFAIK Square Enix is porting Final Fantasy to it. Not sure for what price and how it's going to be sold but I don't believe it'll be for free.

FFX III... which is already available on Android smartphones, just as any other PSX game - some of them don't even require emulators!

Why obsolote? It seems to be hot these days (PS3, Xbox, Wii).

XBOX 720 will be getting a Windows 8 upgrade, so that will be become like a mini-PC with a LOT of connectivity options. Not to mention a BluRay drive (probably).

Not sure, but I don't think so since it doesn't have touch screen. I'm also not sure about the competition. Why does it matter anyway?

Why competition matters? Heh-heh. :cc:

Just because 90% of them is used in mobile devices doesn't mean that anything ARM based has anything to do with Android apps market (there are also ARM based servers). I don't get the logic why using ARM as a processor makes you smartphone competitor. These two have obviously different controls, use cases, ...

Because ARM is a mobile platform due to its energy efficiency.

Yeah, I believe Ouya cannot stand chance too given the HW that will be in future Xbox. But it seems OK as a cheap living room multimedia device. By the way, at least in US, I think patents can to some degree help success.

Well, if you'll be happy with the limitations that it offers as the ultimate multimedia device in your living room, then I have no issue. That is, unless Ms. Julie runs away to Spain with $8.5 millions. :icon_twisted:

[Dead3yez 0]

Looks crap.

[batto 17]

XBOX 720 will be getting a Windows 8 upgrade, so that will be become like a mini-PC with a LOT of connectivity options. Not to mention a BluRay drive (probably).

What connectivity options (except BluRay) are you talking about?

Why competition matters? Heh-heh. :cc:

Um... You asked what's the competition. If there's none, then it's cool, no?

Because ARM is a mobile platform due to its energy efficiency.

Energy efficiency doesn't mean that it's only for devices. Usage of ARM processor doesn't magically put you in competition with apps on Android market.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

What connectivity options (except BluRay) are you talking about?

WiFi, Blutooth, Ethernet port, multiple USB 3.0, Wireless HDMI, infrared receiver (if needed) - the kind of stuff that PC has.

Um... You asked what's the competition. If there's none, then it's cool, no?

Sorry, son, all spots are taken. Ouuuyah would be competing with smartphones and tablets, if it ever gets released.

Energy efficiency doesn't mean that it's only for devices. Usage of ARM processor doesn't magically put you in competition with apps on Android market.

In fact, it does. There's no reason to build a stationary console upon ARM - that is introducing redundancy into the system; the device will become obsolete even before it is on the market.

[batto 17]

WiFi, Blutooth, Ethernet port, multiple USB 3.0, Wireless HDMI, infrared receiver (if needed) - the kind of stuff that PC has.

Except for infrared, Ouya has all you mentioned (USB 2.0).

Sorry, son, all spots are taken. Ouuuyah would be competing with smartphones and tablets, if it ever gets released.

Can you explain me how can living-room-multimedia-console-device connected to TV and speakers controlled by gamepad compete with smartphones and tablets with touchscreen?

You don't buy console for browsing web or playing games during travel.

In fact, it does. There's no reason to build a stationary console upon ARM - that is introducing redundancy into the system; the device will become obsolete even before it is on the market.

No it doesn't and you still fail to provide reason why. So tell me, why does ARM processor puts you in competition with mobile apps? Energy efficiency and other properties of processor don't have anything to do with it.

What redundancy are you talking about? It's supposed to be cheap multimedia device capable of running decent games. Why would it become obsolote?