Should I be freaking out right now, where's the vection based aiming?

[MavericK96 0]

*shrug* I actually have the floating "dead zone" turned off. Kinda feels more precise to me to have it locked. Plus I use TrackIR, and even before that I looked around a lot, so I didn't see the point of having freelook + floating gun.

---------- Post added at 09:07 ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 ----------

Oh yeah. I don't hate ARMA's but agree on that. Seems that, while in A2 you move you gun then the screen starts to move when you reach the borders, in RO2 and other games it goes together. Much better if you ask me.

I agree, I just picked up RO2 and they way it's implemented there is WAY more intuitive. I would actually probably use it if it was implemented that way in ArmA 2.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I'd like to continue controling my avatar in usual FPS shooter way when running.

Currently free-look is same with lowered/ready-to-fire weapon. The free-look in ArmA2 with body turning could work like better floating-zone. Not without sight though. So the current non-sighted free-look behaviour would make more sense only with lowered weapon. With raised weapon your gun shoud move with view (and turn your body as described above). Objections?

I believe the current ArmA 2 style should be kept, optionally of course. Just having floating zone when the weapon is lowered doesn't make any real sense to me, since I don't use a crosshair (and therefore can only look around by feel when my weapon is lowered).

I think that slaving the weapon to your view as soon as it comes up defeats the whole idea of a floating zone. I like how your view centers in A2 and your body turns when you turn when you go to optics, however, but don't wish to see that forced outside of optics view.

[batto 17]

I believe the current ArmA 2 style should be kept, optionally of course. Just having floating zone when the weapon is lowered doesn't make any real sense to me, since I don't use a crosshair (and therefore can only look around by feel when my weapon is lowered).

I think that slaving the weapon to your view as soon as it comes up defeats the whole idea of a floating zone. I like how your view centers in A2 and your body turns when you turn when you go to optics, however, but don't wish to see that forced outside of optics view.

You misunderstood. As someone above pointed out, floating zone is not realistic since your view should move with center of focus (and I find it very cumbersuome). I suggested just better free-look behaviour depending on gun slaving. With ready-to-fire gun it could work like better floating zone...

[djfluffwug 10]

I have never really enjoyed using the floating zone in the ArmA series. It seems like there is more smoothing than needed on the movement making it rather awkward to use. As many have said, I would like to also see a floating zone similar to Red Orchestra 2.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

As someone above pointed out, floating zone is not realistic since your view should move with center of focus (and I find it very cumbersuome).

I would argue the opposite. I like to be able to move my rifle without it moving my view, like I can move my arms without moving my head, or move my eyes without turning my face.

Anyway, it's a case of personal preference, and nothing I say will convince anyone who doesn't like floating zone otherwise. Put simply, I think that removing the deadzone would be a mistake.

[zigzag 0]

I hope the floating zone stays and I think it will.

The floating zone is great when you are hiding in bushes etc.. your body will stay still when you are lying down and aiming and not move around for every inch you move your gun and that will make you harder to find.

[batto 17]

I would argue the opposite. I like to be able to move my rifle without it moving my view, like I can move my arms without moving my head, or move my eyes without turning my face.

The view in ArmA is your eyes. When you move your eyes IRL it moves your FOV so you can't have asymmetric peripheral vision like in ArmA with floating-zone. Sure you can move just the rifle but without moving your eyes it doesn't make much sense. Head, arms, ... doesn't matter, only eyes.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Just try + test different settings of the aiming deadzone slider. Its feels more natural and real ingame if you can move the hand/arm without turning the body. Or would you like to have your full body turned everytime just by small movements? There is no need to remove/replace an option or feature if there is no gain.

[batto 17]

Just try + test different settings of the aiming deadzone slider. Its feels more natural and real ingame if you can move the hand/arm without turning the body. Or would you like to have your full body turned everytime just by small movements?

:confused:

Head, arms, ... doesn't matter, only eyes.

I don't want to remove it (or rather I don't care if it's removed). I'm saying that it's completely unrealistic and it doesn't have equivalent in real life. If you move your eyes or head IRL you move whole field of view... Read my previous post again please. Free-look on the other hand is realistic and feels more natural.

[dmarkwick 261]

I wouldn't like to see the feature removed just because I don't use it, quite obviously lots of people do like it. It gets annoying however when someone who uses it then complains that someone who disables it has some sort of unfair advantage. That's just petty whining.

When I have it enabled, I find it kind of odd that if you wish to put a specific area in the center of your view, you have to move way past that area to get it center, then move your weapon itself back to center.

Also, I'm one of those odd people who have the mouse Y-axis reversed. To me it's intuitive (I guess a hangover from flight sims) but the floating zone somehow makes it non-intuitive :)

[antoineflemming 14]

:confused:

I don't want to remove it (or rather I don't care if it's removed). I'm saying that it's completely unrealistic and it doesn't have equivalent in real life. If you move your eyes or head IRL you move whole field of view... Read my previous post again please. Free-look on the other hand is realistic and feels more natural.

That's basically what I said too.

@NoRailgunner, did you see my comment on a "better", really more realistic, floating/aiming deadzone?

@CameronMcDonald, I understand that we can move our arms independently of our head and independently of our view. But the point is that the view, the camera, represents your point of focus. The center of the camera is the focus of your view. When you see a new target, you don't move your arms in the direction of your target without orienting your head, and if necessary your body too, towards your target. That's like trying to shoot your enemy by trying to use your peripheral vision. Now I understand that the screen is bigger than your eyes, and you can argue that your real eyes are focused on the enemy. But currently the character's head is still looking straight while you move your weapon+arms around. That's realistic. A person can do that. But a soldier wouldn't do that. He or she would orient themselves toward the enemy they were engaging. Seems realistic for the player, but relative to the character it's not that practical, and therefore, not that realistic (or is authentic a better word? IDK. You get my point :p)

@DMarkwick: I definitely think it should stay, but be improved. Kinda like my and batto's discussion on page 5

[smookie 11]

I wouldn't like to see the feature removed just because I don't use it, quite obviously lots of people do like it. It gets annoying however when someone who uses it then complains that someone who disables it has some sort of unfair advantage. That's just petty whining.

I disagree. It's not about whinning, it's more about making chances equal. The feature as such, whether disabled or not, makes no difference if crosshairs are turned on. It does make a huge difference and is vulnerable to cheat/abuse when crosshairs are turned off - this is because players can use the oldest trick in the world (marking center of the screen) to cheat on people with aiming deadzone on - so even though the server admin wanted everyone to have equal chances, players without adzone can position themselves in the advantage in a way that cannot be prevented.

IMHO the solution would be to have aimingdeadzone regulated by the server administrator according to the difficulty setting. No whining - equal chances both sides.

[dmarkwick 261]

@CameronMcDonald, I understand that we can move our arms independently of our head and independently of our view. But the point is that the view, the camera, represents your point of focus. The center of the camera is the focus of your view. When you see a new target, you don't move your arms in the direction of your target without orienting your head, and if necessary your body too, towards your target. That's like trying to shoot your enemy by trying to use your peripheral vision. Now I understand that the screen is bigger than your eyes, and you can argue that your real eyes are focused on the enemy. But currently the character's head is still looking straight while you move your weapon+arms around. That's realistic. A person can do that. But a soldier wouldn't do that. He or she would orient themselves toward the enemy they were engaging. Seems realistic for the player, but relative to the character it's not that practical, and therefore, not that realistic (or is authentic a better word? IDK. You get my point :p)

I should think that the center of the screen represents only the center of the screen to a lot of people. The focus is wherever you happen to be looking at any time. For most people this won't be exclusively the same as your weapon direction or your main view direction. As such, a floating zone makes at least as much sense as no floating zone, and so becomes an issue purely of preference :)

[antoineflemming 14]

I should think that the center of the screen represents only the center of the screen to a lot of people. The focus is wherever you happen to be looking at any time. For most people this won't be exclusively the same as your weapon direction or your main view direction. As such, a floating zone makes at least as much sense as no floating zone, and so becomes an issue purely of preference :)

Yeah, center of the screen represents just that to a lot of people, but what happens when you free look? Can you rotate around and see your backside? No. Your head turns. So it's not just the center of the screen. More is going on than just moving the camera. It IS the main view direction. Wherever your center of view is, that's where the character is looking.

[dmarkwick 261]

In that case it represents your head direction only. To me, moving your weapon with your view is like having your entire upper body rigid. Now, I use TrackIR so my head view is always seperate from my weapon direction, and so floating zone becomes unnecessary, but I expect that for non- TrackIR users, the floating zone represents an amount of apparent fluidity or micro-adjustment that feels appropriate.

Given that your head is necessarily "bolted" to your body for gameplay purposes (TrackIR & freelook notwthstanding), the extra little bit of visual cueing that some people experience from floating zone is a large bonus :)

[batto 17]

It does make a huge difference and is vulnerable to cheat/abuse when crosshairs are turned off - this is because players can use the oldest trick in the world (marking center of the screen) to cheat on people with aiming deadzone on - so even though the server admin wanted everyone to have equal chances, players without adzone can position themselves in the advantage in a way that cannot be prevented.

AKA the unpreventable chocolate dot in the center of the screen cheat =)

IMHO the solution would be to have aimingdeadzone regulated by the server administrator according to the difficulty setting. No whining - equal chances both sides.

That would just increase difficulty to control the game, not the realisticness difficuly. It's like tap X fast to survive in console games. Firing without sight with crosshair just shouldn't be so accurate as it is now. It should depend on gun weight and stamina too.

[smookie 11]

That would just increase difficulty to control the game, not the realisticness difficuly. It's like tap X fast to survive in console games.

I don't see the analogy. It's same as in Red Orchestra - you just have to play by the rules of the server/game and thats all. The chances are equal. And if you dont agree with server settings you can find a new one.

[batto 17]

I don't see the analogy. It's same as in Red Orchestra - you just have to play with given setting and thats all. If you dont agree with server settings you can find a new one. Still, the chances are equal.

The analogy is that the floating-zone just adds unrealistic difficulty to make game harder like fast tapping of buttons in console games (it has nothing to do with main gameplay, story or realism). While it makes chances equal it adds nothing good to realism nor gameplay. If the cheat can't be prevented than crosshair should be enabled and fast non-sighted accurate shooting should be made harder by realistic features.

[dmarkwick 261]

The analogy is that the floating-zone just adds unrealistic difficulty to make game harder like fast tapping of buttons in console games (it has nothing to do with main gameplay, story or realism). While it makes chances equal it adds nothing good to realism nor gameplay. If the cheat can't be prevented than crosshair should be enabled and fast non-sighted accurate shooting should be made harder by realistic features.

I'm confused by this. The analogy simply is not there, if the problem is that the center of the screen represents the weapon direction, then making the weapon not necessarily point at that center seems to fix that. Saying that it's the same as senselessly mashing X simply doesn't follow.

[batto 17]

IThe analogy simply is not there, if the problem is that the center of the screen represents the weapon direction, then making the weapon not necessarily point at that center seems to fix that.

But it doesn't make sense. If your eyes are focused on house why would you point a gun at tree? The center of the screen should represent focus of your eyes. The analogy is that if some game will require floating-zone it'll be just for artificial difficulty to make game harder (for me, floating zone makes movement hard). Don't get me wrong, I'm not for complete removal of it, but as required server setting it's stupid IMO.

Edited May 30, 2012 by batto

[NoRailgunner 0]

A3 players should be able to see all customized settings easily before joining the server for example via "detailed server setup" window. So one can select a mp server closer to his personal preferences and enjoy the game/mission. Of course more and better filter options will help too. :)

[metalcraze 290]

IMHO the solution would be to have aimingdeadzone regulated by the server administrator according to the difficulty setting. No whining - equal chances both sides.

That was suggested to BIS many times now. I hope in ArmA3 they will listen.

[batto 17]

Metalcraze? Since when are serious milsimers for unrealistic stuff?

[dmarkwick 261]

But it doesn't make sense. If your eyes are focused on house why would you point a gun at tree? The center of the screen should represent focus of your eyes. The analogy is that if some game will require floating-zone it'll be just for artificial difficulty to make game harder (for me, floating zone makes movement hard). Don't get me wrong, I'm not for complete removal of it, but as required server setting it's stupid IMO.

Well IMO that's wrong, the center of the screen represents your head direction, not the focus of your eyes. The deadzone represents a good way to remove crosshair advantage (for those people concerned with it).

I don't agree with the server enforcing such a setting though. Unless, perhaps, a TrackIR check is also done for people who disable deadzone for that reason.

And in any case, I don't see how aiming with your face can be seen as the only base situation :)

[batto 17]

Well IMO that's wrong, the center of the screen represents your head direction, not the focus of your eyes.

That's not compatible with how peripheral vision works in real life. Center of screen should represent focus of your eyes. Other parts of your body has nothing to do with vision! You see by your eyes not your head.

The deadzone represents a good way to remove crosshair advantage (for those people concerned with it). I don't agree with the server enforcing such a setting though.

That's in fact the worst way to combat it (it needs to be enforced to work). But of course I can just ignore servers with such brain-damage.

Just because ArmA is played by serious milsimers doesn't mean that floating zone is somehow more realistic than vision in early FPS shooters. It looks like some usability experiment. It has nothing to do with reality.