User Monetization of BI's games Audio&Video content(YoutTube,Twitch Partnership etc.)

[xeno 234]

Being an unfortunate grandfather of the ArmA community, you're doing a terrible job at representing it.

I don't think so, Fuzzy Bandit. And the mission he is playing is my IP, no matter what you think. The concept and the name are not, but the rest :)

And if the license says no commercial usage then it is simply not allowed to make any money from it, no matter how.

Anyway, the whole situation is not acceptable anymore. Some people really think they can make a quick buck by simply ignoring the rules and licenses (and it's not only about people who make free content but BIS has the same problem). The problem is that most of those youtubers have no idea that they use custom made content when recording a MP session.

Another thing is, when somebody already uploads a video to youtube without monetizing it youtube/google makes money from advertising anyway but the original creator of the content gets nothing (again, this is already a problem BIS has themself).

It's not about making money, it's about respect (I know, something which almost does not exist anymore in this world). If people provide something for free made in their spare time wasting hundreds/thousands of hours and they explicity don't want any form of commercial usage, then simply respect it and don't try to make money from it. Or, be at least fair enough and ask. But most of them don't care about it at all and simply push the record button and that's why I'm so pissed.

Xeno

[luetin09 15]

I don't think so, Fuzzy Bandit. And the mission he is playing is my IP, no matter what you think. The concept and the name are not, but the rest :)

And if the license says no commercial usage then it is simply not allowed to make any money from it, no matter how.

Anyway, the whole situation is not acceptable anymore. Some people really think they can make a quick buck by simply ignoring the rules and licenses (and it's not only about people who make free content but BIS has the same problem). The problem is that most of those youtubers have no idea that they use custom made content when recording a MP session.

Another thing is, when somebody already uploads a video to youtube without monetizing it youtube/google makes money from advertising anyway but the original creator of the content gets nothing (again, this is already a problem BIS has themself).

It's not about making money, it's about respect (I know, something which almost does not exist anymore in this world). If people provide something for free made in their spare time wasting hundreds/thousands of hours and they explicity don't want any form of commercial usage, then simply respect it and don't try to make money from it. Or, be at least fair enough and ask. But most of them don't care about it at all and simply push the record button and that's why I'm so pissed.

Xeno

As I said before Xeno I do appreciate hugely the time and effort that goes into producing community content, and I do fully apologise to you for my own ignorance. I honestly did not intentionally post the video going against what you as a creator intended for your work I was just looking to promote what a fantastic game Arma 3 is, which is why I came here in the first place to ask if the content was alright to use? If I had no regard for the producer of the work I would not have come to the forum and asked for clarification as I did on my original post. And as you requested I have removed that video deleted it fully from youtube.

I apologise also for not understanding your involvement with the production of the domination mission as I am very new to the community only joining this week and so I really had no way of knowing to this point, which is again why I was asking here for more information.

I spoke with Rarek and Ahoy tonight so I will stick with just the Annex servers from here on I again apologise for any confusion or inconvenience on my part.

LT

[Placebo 29]

I'm the creator of Invade & Annex and, while it was based on your mission, it is not your mission; you have no say in whether or not it is shared across whatever medium.

If Xeno is credited in Invade & Annex then he absolutely has the right not to allow it to be monetised. I was emailed the question and I replied with the following this morning:

If Rarek credits Xeno for something he used from Xeno's work then you would also need Xeno's permission not just Rarek's, that would apply for any content that you wanted to use in monetised videos.

Whilst most people are happy for other people to earn money off their work in monetised videos there will be the odd one who is adamantly against that and their wishes have to be respected, it's essentially the same rule for creating addons/mods whereby you must request permission if you use someone's content in your own work.

Obviously we can't enforce what happens outside of the Bohemia forums but if someone were to willingly ignore the rights and wishes of a content owner then that person would be within their rights to report the channel to Youtube and we would also not allow that person to post on the Bohemia forums.

Hope that helps.

[Fuzzy Bandit 10]

To clear up any confusion, I'm Rarek (the guy that made Invade & Annex) and Xeno is not credited in any way, nor should he be. I have used nothing of Xeno's work and the game mode is inspired by Domination, not a copy of it; all code is written by me for the sole purpose of I&A.

As mentioned previously, you can restrict commercial usage of your creations as much as you like, but Invade & Annex is not yours to control.

[luetin09 15]

To clear up any confusion, I'm Rarek (the guy that made Invade & Annex) and Xeno is not credited in any way, nor should he be. I have used nothing of Xeno's work and the game mode is inspired by Domination, not a copy of it; all code is written by me for the sole purpose of I&A.

As mentioned previously, you can restrict commercial usage of your creations as much as you like, but Invade & Annex is not yours to control.

Placebo seeing as Rarek as he has stated does not credit Xeno and all code is written by him solely for I&A

It seems pretty clear to me that there should be no issue with players being able to record footage from I&A servers for youtube usage. Rarek has given me the go ahead on that, but really I am waiting for word back from you as well as this issue is clearly more complicated than just one person saying - ok yes use what I have created.

[Placebo 29]

To clear up any confusion, I'm Rarek (the guy that made Invade & Annex) and Xeno is not credited in any way, nor should he be. I have used nothing of Xeno's work and the game mode is inspired by Domination, not a copy of it; all code is written by me for the sole purpose of I&A.

Then I can see no claim by him to stop the monetising of I&A, if you made it alone you are the only one that can say yes or no to monetisation. Inspiration cannot be claimed as grounds for rights or ownership.

[bohne 11]

I do not know about American (YouTube) and or British (Luetin09) law, but in Germany there is a citation law (§51 UrhG), and I guess you have something alike.

While Xeno is right that any derivative works of his IP (and only of his) have to respect his license, one still is independently of any license claims allowed to cite his work as long as one mentions the source of the citation. Here in Germany this is one of the basic laws allowing the so called fourth estate (the press) to work at all and it in fact does not touch whether the citation is under commercial terms.

I feel well within my rights to cite anything I like to on YouTube as long as I do mention the source, do not copy as whole and do comment on it.

What is your opinion on this and what do you know about suchlike laws in other countries?

Thank you for your kind attention!

[Placebo 29]

The only relevance is what we as a company are ok with and what youtube are ok with, any individual rules of specific countries are completely moot here. It can and should be kept simple:

Did you make your addon/mod/mission/etc using someone else's content? If yes then you must 1. receive permission to use it and 2. must credit them in the readme

Did you upload a monetised youtube video containing the content of anyone other than Bohemia Interactive? If yes then you must have received permission from the makers of said content to upload it as monetised and ideally should credit them in the about of the video or in the credits during the video (as your preference).

[SgtTrojan 1]

I've been watching the last two pages of this thread with much interest. As a user of Rarek's beautiful piece of work on our Arma server I also have a valid concern in this case.

The ability to mod the game is the intention of Bohemia. The community can make what they want with the games' code limitations. This is then uploaded onto the server structure and then downloaded as a mission file to our PC. We don't have to grant permission or sign T&C to download mission files. When it's on my machine it's mine.

Coding is a talent blessed upon the fortunate and only those that work for game makers are ever paid for their efforts.

However, I confessed to Rarek that we were using his mission file. All he asked was that homage to AhoyWorld/ Rarek was maintained. I promised to go one step further and donate some funds to his community (it's coming, Rarek :) ) So we altered the mission with BSM branding and left the salute to Rarek in place. It's the least we can do.

What we have altered is an Arma 3 mission file. Rarek created this mission from an Arma 2 mod idea but he didn't rip the code, otherwise someone would rip the Arma 2 Insurgency mod by Veteran Gaming like for like. He had to create it from scratch so how Xeno can state his work has been stolen is beyond me.

It's like saying that Dyson have stolen Hoover's idea because they made a machine for sucking dust off the floor!

[Dwarden 1125]

see #1 post , new PDF attached, new text quoted

updated the Agreement with new Games, added new section about community made content

overall made some things it more clear ...

also be advised we want it to be even simpler ... so more to come

note: read carefully about one way process until 1k/ monthly (hint: please stop spamming me with request for 'approval')

Edited August 6, 2013 by Placebo

[illectro 10]

Thanks, I had previously sent a copy to Dram for Take on Mars, should I CC that copy to you as well?

Any advice on what to do when youtubes copyright staff fails reading comprehension and can't understand the contract?

[Dwarden 1125]

i will try get some better looking representative alike fancy stamp into the document as next step ;)

then dedicated new webpage with some additional 'text' :)

then registration system for 1k+ and VIP etc :)

no eta ;)

[illectro 10]

then dedicated new webpage with some additional 'text' :)

no eta ;)

Given the level of trouble I've had with youtube you'll need to make sure this text uses short words, and is very big, and the blink tag.

[Redslaya 10]

Where exactly in the form that was attached do we state our e-mail, username, youtbe channel etc?

thank you for the opportunity to monetize your content!

[spacemo 10]

I noticed it is not an interactive form. Was it intended to be filled out by hand?

[Dwarden 1125]

yes, for now this is filled by hand and sent to us, one way route, we don't respond

we plant improve this system in future (separate website etc.) but no ETA

[OnlyAfro 10]

Thanks for what you're doing here Dwarden, I like you, you're a pretty cool guy. To summarize, if Youtube asks for proof of visual rights for monetization, must I bother you guys with that or will linking them to the #1 post be enough?

[Dwarden 1125]

you can't bother us with it, cause we already know even if we provided users with 'specially signed' document, the YT dismissed it again as 'not enough'

it's all about mood of the decision maker on YT ...

so keep them just forwarding to this thread (and later the new page when it gets done)

[Edward Teach 10]

I can't even edit the PDF file and don't know how. Mr Dwarden i sent you with email to required info needed for the file

[Dwarden 1125]

in the original (first) post is section "the PDF text contains"

where is within quote the very same text which is part of the PDF ...

[mag0ca 10]

I notice that this license does not list Arma: Tactics, Is it not permitted to make videos and monetize them or just not updated yet?

[Dwarden 1125]

it's just not listed, You can consider Arma: Tactics approved, it will be added to the list when i get moment

[Placebo 29]

Simply the latter, the latest license predates the release of AT.

[mag0ca 10]

Thank you I figured as much but just wanted it documented since YouTube can be a tad odd at times :D

[elfisho 10]

Will you be adding Dayz to this?