Will this version get some polishing, or is it another sputtering Ferrari?

[maturin 12]

Your reaction to my video "all completely realistic and normal" just about completely invalidated any, and i mean just about any, respect for your opinions.

And yet you didn't raise a single valid rebuttal to my explanations. You just made a few very minor suggestions and then said a bunch of dumb stuff. And since by your own admission, only one of the scenarios is that bad, aren't your overreacting?

Well, it wasn't that he was seen, i tested that many times. He might have been seen by the current code, but he shouldn't have been seen in real life, and thats the point.

Ad nauseum I repeat myself. You tested a mission over which you have no control, with dozens of possibly hidden variables at work. You need to make your own missions to test, so you can be sure about what's going on. And for fuck's sake, a BMP with NVG equipment looked straight ahead and saw you at close range after being alerted by other men in close proximity. THE END.

I don't want group A.I. to be psychically binded to one another in such a way that they know unrealistically when, and where they someone was shot. That clear enough?

Done. All they know is where their group mates are. They check to make sure they are okay more often than humans would, but when one of them stops responding, why wouldn't they go TO THE LOCATION OF THE SHOOTING. You are incredibly foolish to assume that no one visually saw a comrade being shot. This is why you need to test in a controlled environment.

The player is also not allowed to plan things out with his A.I. teammate, or talk to them or hand gesture, or nod up and down.

The AI can't do any of that stuff either, so I don't get your point. They don't plan because they are computers. Any hand gestures you see are purely cosmetic additions to the radioed order.

Or tell them not to F'ing get up and start running around lol, when sneaking around.

I can do that.

But even putting in a shout, doesn't get me the realism im looking for.

People shouldn't make noise when they get shot? Sure, it would be nice if people screamed for hours after a hit to the gut and made no noise after a hit to the head (although subsonic ammo isn't going to kill instantly through a helmet), but the health system isn't very detailed.

If your not lookign for that type of behavior, good for you, that explains your post count, you like the game, it supports your interests, good, good job.:D

Well, I do tend to fight rather than sneak in this game. Or sneak into fights rather than expecting to remain always invisible. But my propensity to keep arguing with slippery debaters who ignore all my rebuttals to instead raise trivial issues for pages on end is really where my post count come from.

Whatever you want to call it, get rid of the link.

So one squad can't warn another about incoming enemies? This is not the first time you have called for the AI to be made stupider. So far as I am concerned, you are a misplaced Splinter Cell player who wants to neuter the AI's warfighting capability so they can serve as dumb bots in your secret agent ego shooter.

I would not even bother checking if they see a bullet land. Only sound checks, bullets whizzing by and/or hitting something very close to them is enough.

EXACTLY my point. If they were likely to ignore bullet impacts, there would be a possibility that they would ignore a bullet landing right in front of their face, spraying them with pieces of brick. Oh, and then you would be on the forums howling and howling about the stupid AI. I think the current system is best. FFS, the AI only hears suppressed bullet impacts from like three meters away.

Actually, the fact that AI groups seem to detect the death of a member almost instantly has always been a pet peeve of mine. Basically, one group member can be miles away from the rest and everything will be fine, but the moment he dies, the group leader will feel some kind of disturbance in the force and almost instantly ask the dead guy to "report status". When he doesn't answer within 5 seconds, the leader will then declare him dead.

It may not be intentional. I think AI leader are just giving their subordinates silent sitrep commands all the time. If you are the group leader, 'your AI' will wait several minutes before giving an automatic sitrep command and discovering a casualty. Whatever the mechanism is, it works well with player commanders.

[igneous01 19]

there is a solution offered to OP's problems: make every unit their own group, should reduce the problem you have with them communicating with each other. Dumbs them down without having to script or patch the game.

[Libertine 1]

Watch the video again at 8:54, Its not a BMP shooting at me, look at the direction of fire and note that it is an AK-47 shooting at me by an A.I. without night vision.

@Manlyfin, you post this: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=130375

This is part what myself and others are asking for too.

Done. All they know is where their group mates are. They check to make sure they are okay more often than humans would, but when one of them stops responding, why wouldn't they go TO THE LOCATION OF THE SHOOTING.

Thanks again Sherlock Holmes, I know how the game works, im asking for realistic behavior to be there at 1.0 for Arma3, not 1.53295 two years later...

You are incredibly foolish to assume that no one visually saw a comrade being shot. This is why you need to test in a controlled environment.

I know for a fact they don't see them, from many tests, and i've said this before. :rolleyes: A.I. can be heading the other direction and hear a head shot from a distance. I'm saying DONT MAKE IT EASY, MAKE IT REALISTIC. In fact the only time they didn't "sense" it was when an A.I. was very close, but behind a concrete wall leading me to believe the trees don't offer enough visual blockage. The guy behind the wall should have had a chance to investigate the shot, for a logical period of time, with a specific intensity.

The AI can't do any of that stuff either, so I don't get your point. They don't plan because they are computers.

However the code still simulates a coordinated squad. They pull out RPG and fire on vehicles, that requires communication in real life.

People shouldn't make noise when they get shot?

Both!!! They should have a chance to if its not a headshot. Headshots should not have a shout. The fact is that when people are shot in real life, even in the chest, they sometimes just drop lifeless to the ground. It isn't often heroic or dramatic like the movies. Did you see the depressing video on youtube of the 20 or so U.S. soldiers being sniped by insurgents? I've seen depressing amount of footage of people just dropping, many were not from headshots.

Sure, it would be nice if people screamed for hours after a hit to the gut and made no noise after a hit to the head (although subsonic ammo isn't going to kill instantly through a helmet), but the health system isn't very detailed.

NO S!! WE KNOW! THUS THE REQUESTS!!

So one squad can't warn another about incoming enemies?

They should if its realistic!!! Absolutely :rolleyes:

This is not the first time you have called for the AI to be made stupider.

Im asking for a different balance, take away some of their super human powers and give/strengthen up others in to make their behavior more realistic.

So far as I am concerned, you are a misplaced Splinter Cell player who wants to neuter the AI's warfighting capability so they can serve as dumb bots in your secret agent ego shooter.

Never played it. Also, Im a realism junky and have been since day one. Arma 2 not being realistic in a way that supports my place style is why i don't play it. As it is, it has elements of its detection behavior that are either too easy, or too hard, when trying to carry out a realistic play style.

EXACTLY my point. If they were likely to ignore bullet impacts, there would be a possibility that they would ignore a bullet landing right in front of their face, spraying them with pieces of brick. Oh, and then you would be on the forums howling and howling about the stupid AI. I think the current system is best. FFS, the AI only hears suppressed bullet impacts from like three meters away.

This is your worst oversight yet. ---> My answer to that is WHAT YOU REPLIED TO: "Only sound checks, bullets whizzing by and/or hitting something very close to them is enough."

It [instantly detecting death] may not be intentional. I think AI leader are just giving their subordinates silent sitrep commands all the time. If you are the group leader, 'your AI' will wait several minutes before giving an automatic sitrep command and discovering a casualty. Whatever the mechanism is, it works well with player commanders.

How it works isn't the point. Its not often realistic when the A.I. detect you, thats the point, and its a problem if it prevents you from carrying out realistic actions that you want to do. The A.I. seems either blind (too easy and not fun) or super-human (too hard and not fun). Neither of them realistic. This can be coded into it current system.

Im really not into the general combat stuff anymore, i been there and done that too many times. How they expect adult to keep signing up for this stuff, i don't know. I don't think it's going to happen either. Eventually i think people will stop playing and Bis will have to make some changes. The A.I. is the main thing that would breath life into the world, with better idle animations, realistic and more random behavior and better voice acting.

@Igneous01 Thanks, but there are a 1000 more things that could be done with the A.I. to make them more alive. The psychic network is just one problem.

[Tonci87 163]

You guys are extremely annoying. Why don´t you discuss this on PM?

[james2464 177]

You guys are extremely annoying. Why don´t you discuss this on PM?

Agreed

[Dwarden 1125]

Watch the video again at 8:54, Its not a BMP shooting at me, look at the direction of fire and note that it is an AK-47 shooting at me by an A.I. without night vision.

which game (A2 or OA) and game version was used , cause this looks like that fixed bug where if you triggered explosive then AI knew about your position

[maturin 12]

Watch the video again at 8:54, Its not a BMP shooting at me, look at the direction of fire and note that it is an AK-47 shooting at me by an A.I. without night vision.

Just watched it. Nope. You got hammered by a vehicle.

I know for a fact they don't see them, from many tests, and i've said this before.

Okay, fine. I don't believe you. I have played that mission too, and I know that there are many small groups of enemies, and I can see that you had a few bushes for cover.

However the code still simulates a coordinated squad. They pull out RPG and fire on vehicles, that requires communication in real life.

What are you saying? I think we've lost the thread on this one, so I will just say that the only advantage an AI team leader has over you is flawless memory of button presses and no need to click on dots on the map. Actually, there are many commands you can give that he never will.

Both!!! They should have a chance to if its not a headshot. Headshots should not have a shout. The fact is that when people are shot in real life, even in the chest, they sometimes just drop lifeless to the ground. It isn't often heroic or dramatic like the movies. Did you see the depressing video on youtube of the 20 or so U.S. soldiers being sniped by insurgents? I've seen depressing amount of footage of people just dropping, many were not from headshots.

I've already said that ArmA's hitpoint system is simplistic and arcadish, and that I don't know whether or not the AI actually hears screams. A person may cry out when shot in the head, or may remain silent when shot anywhere else, I agree. So it's unpredictable. But you go and complain about the game being broken because it didn't go your way that one time.

NO S!! WE KNOW! THUS THE REQUESTS!!

Bugtracker, please.

"Only sound checks, bullets whizzing by and/or hitting something very close to them is enough."

Who said that? All I know is that you argued the AI should have a chance to ignore impacts. This isn't workable because you would have to distinguish heard impacts from seen impacts, which is getting too complex for something that is going to happen potentially multiple times every second.

Its not often realistic when the A.I. detect you, thats the point, and its a problem if it prevents you from carrying out realistic actions that you want to do. The A.I. seems either blind (too easy and not fun) or super-human (too hard and not fun). Neither of them realistic. This can be coded into it current system.

The glitch with a leader noticing a casualty doesn't actually affect detection, just the awareness level of the squad.

Im really not into the general combat stuff anymore, i been there and done that too many times.

There's your problem.

The A.I. is the main thing that would breath life into the world, with better idle animations, realistic and more random behavior and better voice acting.

Wait, so do you want them to make the AI look more lifelike and other cosmetic, immersive things, or do you want them to spend thousands of man hours balancing every little quirk of you infiltration routine into a feature that is playable in every conceivable wartime scenario? And are you planning on locking the devs in your basement so they have time for all this?

The psychic network is just one problem.

'Psychic network' inside a group. Which players have equal access to on lower difficulty settings. There is no psychic network between groups. I have told you at least three times that information sharing is very limited and often not extensive enough.

You need to take Igneous' advice and infiltrate bases consisting of lone enemies, not groups. You can't expect normal ArmA mission builders to create things that will fit your own personal play style.

You guys are extremely annoying. Why don´t you discuss this on PM?

Am I somehow derailing a thread by having an on-topic discussion with the OP?

[Tonci87 163]

You are having a discussion that makes absolutely NO progress!

[Libertine 1]

which game (A2 or OA) and game version was used , cause this looks like that fixed bug where if you triggered explosive then AI knew about your position

Thats OA. (You'll see the menu screens are OA) I left in all the recording up to that point just to be thorough for the sake of troubleshooting and also to show how much time was spent setting that up. I thought is was a vehicle that shot me, but it sounds like an AK and the visual direction from the tracers is towards the jeep near the explosion. In one play of that mission there was a lone soldier patrolling near the fuel station, maybe him. Or like Maturnotin thinks, that its a vehicle.

[maturin 12]

Thats OA. (You'll see the menu screens are OA) I left in all the recording up to that point just to be thorough for the sake of troubleshooting and also to show how much time was spent setting that up. I thought is was a vehicle that shot me, but it sounds like an AK and the visual direction from the tracers is towards the jeep near the explosion. In one play of that mission there was a lone soldier patrolling near the fuel station, maybe him. Or like Maturnotin thinks, that its a vehicle.

At the time you specified, it sounds like a DshKm, nothing like an AK.

....Libertard

...I don't know, I've got nothing there.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Libertine what about simple uploading this mission so people can test/see it themselves with vanilla A2OA + AI? ;)

[maturin 12]

It's publically available in Wolle's OFP mission pack.

And there's no point running a generalized test of a mission with all the scripts and workings hidden inside a .pbo.