HETMAN - Artificial Commander

[mikey74 186]

Maybe because Mr Magoo is wise and patient. I like it moving a bit slow, but my son does not. I guess it depends on the players point of view. Kids are in a hurry. People get killed like that. BUT a wise general may take a smoke break and work things out before rushing in half cocked. ;) idk just my humble opinion.

[euly 0]

Maybe because Mr Magoo is wise and patient. I like it moving a bit slow, but my son does not. I guess it depends on the players point of view. Kids are in a hurry. People get killed like that. BUT a wise general may take a smoke break and work things out before rushing in half cocked. ;) idk just my humble opinion.

Mr. Magoo was hardly wise, considering his eyesight and negligence, but regardless, the problem in HAC is the scale of time and realism. I've sat in front of my computer waiting for an hour for the first shots to be fired. I usually play a sniper, so patience isn't the problem, it's the ever-growing probability of time-outs in which AI can become disabled, without notice, causing a chain reaction of units not responding to HAC's orders. HAC doesn't know any better and has no way of re-engaging units to mobilize. You can feel as proud as you want for being patient, but with the lack of mobilization, I can guarantee you'll be waiting for a lot of things that won't happen.

[Rydygier 1317]

Not to each objective, just their first distant objective. Why not use the choppers if they are not being used?

If objective is distant, and HAC decides it is time to take it, and he has available choppers big enough to take whole groups designated to take it - they should get the chopper. It is otherwise in such circumstancies? Or it is, but too few groups are sent (raise capture limit then)?

Not always using chopper is good idea. That's why there are used only for certain kind of missions. If only few of many choopers are used at the moment, it means, that only few groups have designated mission, where chopper is useful. Again - if you wish to see many infantry flying blindly (without recon first) in helicopters towards objective - you can set up HAC that way by using NoRecon, rapidCapt, increasing CaptLimit...

Something like that?

ChoppersEverywhere (for addon version)

I expect the commander to mobilize the troops,

Hmm. Perhaps describe step by step what in given exact situation you will call "mobilize the troops"? Perhaps we think about two different things here. Perhaps you think about something, towards which HAC code cannot be adjusted without rewriting whole thing from the scratch - that's what I'm affraid.

the problem in HAC is the scale of time and realism. I've sat in front of my computer waiting for an hour for the first shots to be fired.

Depends on mission design. In my test missions I can get firefights after a minute or a few if I want. But you are for or against the realism? What realism is? How long real battles are developing? Waiting only an hour before first shot? Sniper can wait much longer and then not shoot at all - that's realism. So I think we talk here about frenetic action (in real world terms). Problem is, that Arma not so bad simulates time scale. Troops need realistic amount of time to cover distancies.

Are you sure it's not Mr.Magoo Commander?

:) No, I'm not sure. In fact, I have no any idea, how real commander at real war will act in the battle, how fast will do what exactly. I'm not sure also, if I would knew that and implement such behavior exactly, players will like it more than current HAC acting. I could expect however, that things in real world take much more time, than in game. It is about player's subjective sense of passage of time. One hour seems to be an eternity, while it is really not much in reality. Like I said above - we have simulator here that makes movement as fast, as in real, but all is on far smaller areas, than in real (whole country of 20 km radius, and it is considered as big map, yeah).

it's the ever-growing probability of time-outs in which AI can become disabled, without notice, causing a chain reaction of units not responding to HAC's orders. HAC doesn't know any better and has no way of re-engaging units to mobilize.

I'm not fully understand, what are you describing here. Seems like some sewere code malfunction? You mean a certain circumstancies, when HAC become suddenly unable to any action, even if should be? It is this after-8-hours-gameplay situation or this happens sooner? It is under BB or regular HAC? Can you describe exactly what this situation looks like, when it happening? Number of groups, taking objectives progress, morale, shape of the forces... All, what debug can show. For sure there are healthy and equipped, not busy groups ready for orders, there are objectives to take and nothing is going on? Perhaps army is in defending mode due to massive losses and low morale (not bad)? Or rather wandering on permanent idle state like headless chicken (bad)? Or, if possible - show me a repro. Trying to describe with words something, that must be explained on script logic level, while situation is so complex on this level is usually not sufficient.

Another "problem" is, HAC doesn't designate on its own any "end of mission" point. It just continuosly tries to handle current situation he found. Intuitively we could decide, so end of mission would be when last objective is taken/lost or one of the Leaders is dead, but it is fully player's choice. I want to say, that on your place, when encountering such stalemate situation, when both sides seems to be unable to further ofensive I'll probable consider it as end of the scenario and that's it.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Rydygier

[monyetswa 1]

Seems to be a common issue of not enough attacks happening, at least in the larger scale "whole map" missions.

What I'm noticing about Big Boss missions so far (while looking at debug modes), he seems to set each leader directly into defense mode. I see the markers on the map "Defensive Center" and get the order "Delta Foxtrot," All other units move and hold their positions, and no recon occurs. The leaders take defense, despite having 20-30 various units synched to them, and several possible objectives to capture. I also noticed that BB defines the fronts rather narrowly, and for about only half of the map, although I realize he'd probably re-define them later.

Any tips on how to set up an attacking army on BBa vs BBb modes? I've tried a few different config settings, such as RydHQ_RapidCapt = 50; and Berserk = true; I'm interested to see other's set ups.

[Rydygier 1317]

Fronts are recalculated with time.

Does that going into defensive behavior occurs also for BB demo? IMHO something is still wrong in the set up. I could to guess, but better just show me such mission.

[monyetswa 1]

The demos seem to work fine, but I see in there you've put

RydHQ_RapidCapt = 10000;

and

RydHQ_NoRec = 10000;

10000 * Recklessness value+0.01 is the "Percentage chance for capturing objectives" and not doing recon first, so I guess 10000 guaruntees this?

I'll try this on my mission and test results. I also just tried Berserk mode for about 30 mins with 10 min BB reset intervals. Seems like he doesnt read the Game Logics I synched to his SAL, and Leaders get no Objectives set, so they send groups on recon or hold missions right around the leader only.

[Rydygier 1317]

so I guess 10000 guaruntees this?

Yes. So for sure there will be no recon performed and no initial delay of few cycles before capturing orders.

So, logically, if demo is working properly, and yours set up no, a reason must be something, that differs demo and yours mission. If you would upload that mission, I'll gladly check the config for you... It looks like some fundamental problem with setup, still could be even a tiny typo breaking everything.

[monyetswa 1]

The demos seem to work just fine, and I noticed you put:

RydHQ_NoRec = 10000;

and

RydHQ_RapidCapt = 10000;

Meaning that there is 100% guaruntee for LeaderHQs to go to capture right away?

I put these in my mission along with berserk mode and 1-2 minute reset times for BB and Leaders, but it seems like BB has a problem with the Game Logics that I synched to the SAL, because Leaders still only give group leaders recon or hold missions close to the leaderHQ. Its as if BB does not assign them any objectives. I'll PM you the mission.

[sixt 26]

Thanks Rydygier for your quick answer yesterday, will try some of your ideas :-)

Sixt

[euly 0]

Here is a link to my old mission Rydygier.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ootswhth4w15roq/UpHillBattle.Chernarus.pbo

You have helped me with this before, but I believe the version is out of date by one revision. I haven't played this map in a long time. I don't even have ArmA 2 installed at the moment because I've been waiting for HAC for A3.

[Rydygier 1317]

I don't even have ArmA 2 installed at the moment because I've been waiting for HAC for A3.

:O

So, only shortly, about mission, I linked in earlier post related to not sufficient choppers usage problem: in that mission you have 9 fire team groups, 9 choppers and distant BB battlefield area. All choppers are used to transport immediatelly all groups in one wave to the first distant objective. All is done only via init config and mission design.

Meanwhile...

HAC 1.46 released.

Changelog:

- fixed a bug introduced in latest versions with "Lib" init variables (thanks to monyetswa);

- fixed another "undefined variable" bug.

[Guest]

Thank you very much for your constant support by informing us of your updates, it is very much appreciated :)

New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

HETMAN - Artificial Commander v1.46



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[monyetswa 1]

Rydygier, while you work on HETMAN for ArmA3, do you plan to keep the same RHQ_ Configs method?

I think one of the biggest issues with A3 players so far is the lack of content, and most of us will be using a lot of addons. Making the RHQ_ arrays can be pretty time consuming, so if your planning to keep the same method maybe we can start making the arrays already.

[Rydygier 1317]

Until I find a better solution, I'm forced to keep RHQ way.

Someone can say, why not use parent classes like "Tank" "Wheeled_APC", "CAManBase","Static" etc. to automatize categorization. I would, but sadly this is not specific enough for Hetman, thus RHQs are required...

So yeah, if someone want, may start to prepare RHQs for any A3 mods he likes. Nothing should change here for now. BTW preparing well checked set for official content using Six Config Browser took me several hours.

[sixt 26]

Hi right now im trien to make a tank battle, and find it difficult, to get the HAC commander to use it's heavy armor offensive, even with, Rapidcapture= 10000, norec = 10000 and beserk = true. it seems to first to use its light armored units, and infantry first?? have you any ideas how to get the AI to use it armor units more offensive.

Thanks Sixt

[Rydygier 1317]

Indeed, HAC tends to use his "heavy fist" only when it is needed. Last choice for recon (obviously), only secondary choice for capturing objectives mission (infantry is best in holding terrain), as for attack - is first choice sometimes.

Also will be not so willingly sent in difficult terrain (woods, urban areas, steep slopes) or in the areas, where Anti-Tank weaponry presence was discovered.

What to do? Some possibilities:

1. Remove all forces apart from tanks;

2. Use as battlefield flat, open areas;

3. Reduce amount of hostile AT weaponry in the area. (not good if you want tanks vs tanks of course).

But in general it is not so bad. Some time ago I made on Chernarus map HAC scenario Leader vs Leader to test SmartCamera script, there was mostly tanks, but not only, I had also infantry, gunships, and static, and I got really nice, big armor contra armor struggle... Secret was to put in the middle some independent, hostile to anybody tanks guarding objectives and set over the battlefield one UAV per side, so both Leaders quickly get knowledge about several enemies, so they send right away many groups in the attack missions, mostly tanks and aerial units as best against armor. Very soon in kind of chain reaction all forces of both Leaders was engaged in spectacular battle around Vybor.

Simply to make HAC use tanks more offensive, give for such offensive some proper targets to fight with, best in suitable for tanks terrain, and let Leader know about them (aerial recon, UAVs). More question of mission design than init config. Of course there is always also described earlier RydxHQ_MARatio init config variable as highly intrusive, radical remedy.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Rydygier

[monyetswa 1]

have you any ideas how to get the AI to use it armor units more offensive.

I found that HAC is using Armor mainly for Attacks on known units, not for capture. Maybe you can try putting tank groups in the RydHQ_FirstToFight = [] array or the RydHQ_NoDef = []. I also usually make RydHQ_ObjHoldTime shorter, the resets quicker, and Big Boss resets earlier.

Heres what happened in my mission I was just playing for ~3 hours. I was an An-2 recon pilot for CDF and HAC told me "recon" over some hills. When I found some enemies (infantry and BTR-40) HAC marked them and first send out all 6 Mi-24 squadrons. After they crashed or got hit with RPGs, HAC sent the armored platoons across the map and they arrived within 3 minutes and basically destroyed 70% of LeaderHQD. As you can see from this pic it was pretty epic:

You can see bottom left, some blue armor units.

[euly 0]

I found that HAC is using Armor mainly for Attacks on known units, not for capture. Maybe you can try putting tank groups in the RydHQ_FirstToFight = [] array or the RydHQ_NoDef = []. I also usually make RydHQ_ObjHoldTime shorter, the resets quicker, and Big Boss resets earlier.

Heres what happened in my mission I was just playing for ~3 hours. I was an An-2 recon pilot for CDF and HAC told me "recon" over some hills. When I found some enemies (infantry and BTR-40) HAC marked them and first send out all 6 Mi-24 squadrons. After they crashed or got hit with RPGs, HAC sent the armored platoons across the map and they arrived within 3 minutes and basically destroyed 70% of LeaderHQD. As you can see from this pic it was pretty epic:

http://s21.postimg.org/9seckj26f/arma2oa_2013_10_25_23_12_03_81.jpg

You can see bottom left, some blue armor units.

Man, good ole memories. I love that mission. Make yourself a gunner on a transport helo, you'll be picking up squads under fire. A3 will be even more fun because of the loiter waypoint.

[Rydygier 1317]

Loiter waypoint you say. Was curious, so checked it just before breakfast. Nice. I'm wondering, where exactly in Hetman we could use this? Noted also new setting for waypoint - height. Would be very nice, but seems, that this does nothing...

Last two days was spent on new artillery code alone. In general it is ready. Still here and there we have small issues, that hopefully will be fixed in A3:

- kbTell order notification is still voiceless. Some sounds (HQ's sentences) are simply not existing anymore, or I failed to find their current names, oter sounds are there, but there is error message in RPT, that these sound files cannot be opened. So only "beeps" for now and some mess in RPT.

- Few artillery issues. In certain situations new artillery commands do some mess around calculating ETA for shells (or I'm doing wrong something here). This is crucial for predicting position of moving targets, so sometimes artillery will miss badly such targets. Arty smoke is as poor, as was in A2 - I'm amazed, why devs considered such miserable, small, short living and poorly view blocking cloud as proper smoke screen... Perhaps it is realistic, do not know. Arty illum rounds works, but again, 100% useless. Tested that yesterday evening. When flare is deployed, it acts simply like one more, big star on the sky, that falls slowly and disappears soon. Thats all. Illuminating of the terrain below is 0. No difference at all. Also sometimes noted, thst doArtilleryFire command sometimes has no desired effect (gun is not firing). Reason unknown atm.

That's it for now. Two last steps left before release: MP and overall checking of everything if something else also is wrong (bug hunting).

Edited October 26, 2013 by Rydygier

[mikey74 186]

thst doArtilleryFire command sometimes has no desired effect (gun is not firing). Reason unknown atm.

I had to use sleep commands to get that to work. It seems if they get the order to fast the unit will holler negative and ask for new coordinates. SO I stuck a sleep (3 + random 4); to make this work. BUT I also have them firing off a foreach loop for groups of artillery. Hope this helps. :) You can also try commandArtilleryFire. Which seems to be the same thing, but worded differently.

[Rydygier 1317]

I see... Thanks, it is helpful.

[euly 0]

Loiter waypoint you say. Was curious, so checked it just before breakfast. Nice. I'm wondering, where exactly in Hetman we could use this?

Loiter seems to be exclusive to helicopters. In HAC, it would be proper to use it for holding waypoints, so helicopters do not just hover, waiting to be shot down. Hopefully, there is some way to disengage the loiter waypoint.

[Rydygier 1317]

Loiter seems to be exclusive to helicopters. In HAC, it would be proper to use it for holding waypoints, so helicopters do not just hover, waiting to be shot down.

Right. But in HAC there is no holding in the air waypoints for the chopper currently. If you see controlled by HAC chopper just hovering, it means, it is out of control due to panic under fire or something. It is not desired effect. HAC's waypoints for aerial units ends on the ground, or are SAD or attack sweeping over target position. Unless this is that short period (several seconds) during cargo embarking procedure, that rather cannot be interrupted by loitering, when chopper awaits for the group reaching loading position.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Rydygier

[Rydygier 1317]

Started probably the worst part of coding Hetman for A3, for sure most hated by me - MP compatibility (new orders notification for players, diary task entries handling).

Did several tests, where I tried to make functional kbTell throught the net with new BIS_fnc_MP. Failed so far due to two problems:

- BIS_fnc_MP is for remote execution of a function on client. So that function must be delivered there earlier or be one of default present in A3. There are some strange ways to do so, like publicVariable the function at init, or one described in function's page, all with own issues.

- I need also waituntil for hasTopic or wasSaid from the client, and trying to make it happen makes a headache.

Well, after some days of trials probably I would succeed, but...

I was thinking a bit (!) instead and asked myself, why, oh why I must struggle with all this kbTell-throught-the-net horror, delaying release just for simple new mission notification for a player? I have not found a satisfactory answer to this question, so decided to make something new here instead.

As said before, seems anyway, that there are lacking sound sentences, so better to abandon that dummy radio mini-conversation at all (a bit sad, I used to it), and perhaps use new A3 possibility, even if not so charming, for sure better working, more elegant and possible to reasonable implementation in reasonable time:

Notification

At lest in MP, but IMHO everywhere...

Diary entries in another story however.

Thoughts? Other ideas?

[euly 0]

I do not think all of these features have been fully documented. They probably will be after the campaign is released, but the best course of action would be to ask on the forum.

Is there a difference between the AI receiving commands and the player? I ask because if you cannot figure it out, maybe a worst case scenario would be to design HAC to work in MP without the player(s), and then figure out how to force HAC to accommodate them after you know Hetman it functioning.