God

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 1]

What part of "The bible says do violent things" don't you understand? I have posted exerpts of the bilbe of couple pages back describing rape, murder, and subjegation of women. The Bible is what all Christians live by. That means a Christian can do these horrible acts.

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 05 2002,12:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ July 05 2002,11:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Read the Bible, Christianity is actually a peaceful religon.<span id='postcolor'>

Read the bible.  It's actually very violent and graphic with such themes as rape and murdering of babies.  And these quotes are only a very few, there are plenty more if you know where to look.  Deuternomy has a lot of good "R" rated ones.  They don't teach this stuff in Sunday School!

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found, Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver.... (Deuteronomy 22:28,29)

"And Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, the king desireth not any dowry, but a hundred foreskins of the Philistines, to be avenged of the king's enemies....wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men, and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son-in-law." (Samuel 18:25,27)

"When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And thou seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and has a desire unto her, that thou wouldst have her to thy wife, Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails....and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife." (Deuteronomy 21:11,13)

"Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah 13:16)

"Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children, and women..." (Ezekiel 9:6)

"Thus saith the Lord; For three transgessions of the children of Ammon, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof, because they have ripped up the women with child of Gilead, that they might enlarge their border." (Amos 1:13)<span id='postcolor'>

There. I quoted myself so you can read it again.

[Shabadu 0]

Oh I see. So they claim it's a peaceful religion but in truth they actually have no idea. LOL!

I bet the people that protest it's so peaceful are those that never read the bible. Those that have read it and still proclaim that christians are good and peaceful people must be mad then.

I think I have a totally different view on this now.

Cheers residuum.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shabadu @ July 08 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 08 2002,16:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 08 2002,16:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They have said without budging that Christianity is a peaceful religion, I have posted exerpts that disprove that.  An argument is about proving and disproving.  It's not about saying "I'm right, you're wrong, I don't need proof, I believe I'm right.  You're going to hell!"<span id='postcolor'>

Christianity is a religion of peace, if Christians do violent things this doesn't change their religion. Man is violent, Christ is not.<span id='postcolor'>

How can you(general) claim to be christian and yet do violent things? There are very few people that follow the fullest extent of their religion, which in my opinion is hypocritical( if that's a word), I think the only people that truly take the full extent of their belief seriously are the likes of tibetan monks.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't mean that Christianity condones violence, it abhores violence but Christ brings forgiveness, and the perfection that is mercy.

No-one is going to be converted here, can we let it rest?

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 1]

Anytime. If I had more time I would fine more lovely quotes descibing murder, rape, and infantcide. They are common themes in Old Testament. It's surprising how many people who claim to have "read the bible" do not know of these things. Probably because they haven't read the bible at all. Only what they taught at Sunday school.

[Shabadu 0]

So they abhore violence but do it anyway? This is getting confusing

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 08 2002,10:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shabadu @ July 08 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 08 2002,16:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 08 2002,16:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They have said without budging that Christianity is a peaceful religion, I have posted exerpts that disprove that.  An argument is about proving and disproving.  It's not about saying "I'm right, you're wrong, I don't need proof, I believe I'm right.  You're going to hell!"<span id='postcolor'>

Christianity is a religion of peace, if Christians do violent things this doesn't change their religion. Man is violent, Christ is not.<span id='postcolor'>

How can you(general) claim to be christian and yet do violent things? There are very few people that follow the fullest extent of their religion, which in my opinion is hypocritical( if that's a word), I think the only people that truly take the full extent of their belief seriously are the likes of tibetan monks.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't mean that Christianity condones violence, it abhores violence but Christ brings forgiveness, and the perfection that is mercy.

No-one is going to be converted here, can we let it rest?<span id='postcolor'>

how can you claim it abhors violence? Can you not read?

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 08 2002,16:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What part of "The bible says do violent things" don't you understand?  I have posted exerpts of the bilbe of couple pages back describing rape, murder, and subjegation of women.  The Bible is what all Christians live by.  That means a Christian can do these horrible acts.<span id='postcolor'>

Don't be so stupid, there are storys of barbarity, the ancient Jews were warriors. Have you read the bible and understood it? It is many books.

Read the words of Jesus Christ, the New Testament marks a total change in religion and forms the foundation of Christian faith. Christ preaches peace, the words of Christ and the Apostles are the faith, not the Old Testament.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 08 2002,16:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 08 2002,10:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shabadu @ July 08 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 08 2002,16:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 08 2002,16:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They have said without budging that Christianity is a peaceful religion, I have posted exerpts that disprove that.  An argument is about proving and disproving.  It's not about saying "I'm right, you're wrong, I don't need proof, I believe I'm right.  You're going to hell!"<span id='postcolor'>

Christianity is a religion of peace, if Christians do violent things this doesn't change their religion. Man is violent, Christ is not.<span id='postcolor'>

How can you(general) claim to be christian and yet do violent things? There are very few people that follow the fullest extent of their religion, which in my opinion is hypocritical( if that's a word), I think the only people that truly take the full extent of their belief seriously are the likes of tibetan monks.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't mean that Christianity condones violence, it abhores violence but Christ brings forgiveness, and the perfection that is mercy.

No-one is going to be converted here, can we let it rest?<span id='postcolor'>

how can you claim it abhors violence?  Can you not read?<span id='postcolor'>

THE OLD TESTAMENT IS THE JEWISH FAITH YOU MORON!

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

And to think this thing could actually fade out. God punishes people who do not believe in him, the penalty of sin is death. God siad to Isreal that He would curse those who curse them, and from residumm, it sounds like He did. I have not read the entire Bible yet, but I am working on it. I have read through the New Testament, and now I am working the Old. The Old Testament is the basis of the Chritsian Faith. Christians still go by the laws of the Old Testament, just as Jesus told us too. Never though does the Old Testament say to Murder, when God commanded killing it was becuase of a reason, like them not believeing in God.

[Shabadu 0]

It seems to me that they're in denial. They want a religion that they can pretend they're all peace loving hippies but such a thing doesn't exist.

Oh and watch you don't get too carried away paratrooper. This thread might get closed down. Or is that what your'e trying to do?

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 1]

Personal insults will not be tolerated on these forums.

Anyway, there are plenty of Christians who claim to live word for word from the Bible. Even the Old Testament

Therefor, they would not be peaceful people at all.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ July 08 2002,16:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And to think this thing could actually fade out. God punishes people who do not believe in him, the penalty of sin is death. God siad to Isreal that He would curse those who curse them, and from residumm, it sounds like He did. <span id='postcolor'>

No, my friend, Christianity is about mercy, not wrath.

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 1]

Christians contradicting one another!! WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 08 2002,16:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Personal insults will not be tolerated on these forums.

Anyway, there are plenty of Christians who claim to live word for word from the Bible.  Even the Old Testament

Therefor, they would not be peaceful people at all.<span id='postcolor'>

Well they don't represent real Christianity, they represent a convenient mixture that suits American evangelists, not the true Church of Rome.

[Shabadu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 08 2002,16:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Christians contradicting one another!! WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED<span id='postcolor'>

Not me!

Can you feel the sarcasm?

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 08 2002,16:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Christians contradicting one another!! WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED<span id='postcolor'>

It seems to me you are merely determined to attack Christianity, nothing more. You're not interested in debate at all.

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 08 2002,10:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 08 2002,16:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Personal insults will not be tolerated on these forums.

Anyway, there are plenty of Christians who claim to live word for word from the Bible.  Even the Old Testament

Therefor, they would not be peaceful people at all.<span id='postcolor'>

Well they don't represent real Christianity, they represent a convenient mixture that suits American evangelists, not the true Church of Rome.<span id='postcolor'>

And once we again we get into the "I'm right everyone else is wrong"

YOU think you the "Church of Rome" represents Christiany, but many many others believe that their sect does.

[Shabadu 0]

We'd pick on Muslims but it's a bit taboo right now.

Oh come on!

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 1]

One cannot have a debate with one who blindly believes they are right and cannot offer proof except that they are right.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

WHy do you atack Christianity? Compare all the religons togather and just see which one makes the most sense. There is only one person you are making happy right now and that is our enemy satan. I am not saying yall are satanic, but it does make the devil happy to see things like this bieng said about Christians. You make God happy and you will be blessed, you make satan happy and well.......

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 08 2002,16:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 08 2002,10:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 08 2002,16:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Personal insults will not be tolerated on these forums.

Anyway, there are plenty of Christians who claim to live word for word from the Bible.  Even the Old Testament

Therefor, they would not be peaceful people at all.<span id='postcolor'>

Well they don't represent real Christianity, they represent a convenient mixture that suits American evangelists, not the true Church of Rome.<span id='postcolor'>

And once we again we get into the "I'm right everyone else is wrong"

YOU think you the "Church of Rome" represents Christiany, but many many others believe that their sect does.<span id='postcolor'>

Well of course I think I'm right and others are wrong or this wouldn't be my faith. Can you develop any real theological or philosophical arguments, or are you just going to produce more circular arguments?

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

LOL!!! This is turning into a chatroom. Like Paratropper said it is our Faith so ofcourse we think we are right.

[Shabadu 0]

Why is it that religious types all use the same tactic to defer a debate on the credibility of their religion. You claim that those debating are either simply attacking you and being insulting or that they are simply ill-informed and that their arguments have no rationale.

No-one is attacking christianity, I for one hate the idea of religion NOT solely that of christianity.

No religion makes sense. That's the point of science. To make sense of things. We model atoms as nucleons orbited by electrons, to give a visualisation that enables us to explain their behaviour, it is doubtful that they actually LOOK like that.

I forgot the point I was trying to make. It was something along the line of god being a metophor for creation and not actually being an existing thing more like an idea of a thing.

Like time. Ask a physicist what time is and they'll tell you it's something measured by a clock. We know time has significance but we can't explain it so we invent an idea of it in an effort to explain it.

Acient philosophers like christ were a little like early scientists. They attempted to explain existence, the problem is they had nothing to go on so they told everyone what they imagined it to be like, without explaining that this is what they think, not neccesarily what is truth.

So to this day people who think this person or that person got it right hang on to these beliefs because they are so mentally frail they need an explanation of their existence.

Damn I'm not very good at this.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shabadu @ July 08 2002,17:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why is it that religious types all use the same tactic to defer a debate on the credibility of their religion. You claim that those debating are either simply attacking you and being insulting or that they are simply ill-informed and that their arguments have no rationale.

No-one is attacking christianity, I for one hate the idea of religion NOT solely that of christianity.

No religion makes sense. That's the point of science. To make sense of things. We model atoms as nucleons orbited by electrons, to give a visualisation that enables us to explain their behaviour, it is doubtful that they actually LOOK like that.

I forgot the point I was trying to make. It was something along the line of god being a metophor for creation and not actually being an existing thing more like an idea of a thing.

Like time. Ask a physicist what time is and they'll tell you it's something measured by a clock. We know time has significance but we can't explain it so we invent an idea of it in an effort to explain it.

Acient philosophers like christ were a little like early scientists. They attempted to explain existence, the problem is they had nothing to go on so they told everyone what they imagined it to be like, without explaining that this is what they think, not neccesarily what is truth.

So to this day people who think this person or that person got it right hang on to these beliefs because they are so mentally frail they need an explanation of their existence.

Damn I'm not very good at this. <span id='postcolor'>

Where did it all come form?

But the point is that Christianity is about people not the phsycal world.

Einstein (a religious man) said that it is impossible to describe the sense of the divine to those who do not have it.

I think I shall end on this idea. Why don't we drop this dead donkey?