Wind Lens 3 times more efficient than conventional turbines

[PELHAM 10]

Lets try pictures:

Hydrogen vs electricity, efficiency as an automotive fuel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy#Efficiency_as_an_automotive_fuel

[Hans Ludwig 0]

If Walker post one more Wikipedia link I'm going to poke his eyes out with a spoon.

[b101_uk 10]

Lets try pictures:

Hydrogen vs electricity, efficiency as an automotive fuel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy#Efficiency_as_an_automotive_fuel

The trouble with that pictogram is it assumes that the wind turbine is 100% efficient even threw to the electric plug that the “charger†or “electrolysis†portion connect,

In truth the absolute best a wind turbine can be at the best given point in time is ~90% at its own output, this is because of mechanical losses in gearing up from the ~20rpm of the blades to the >500rpm <3000rpm that AC generator needs. (This does not account for the overall efficacy for 24h/day 365days per year, i.e. when there is no wind it is using external power to keep its systems up and running and the brake applied or how over any given year the net output is much less than peek output and well anything less than peek output is lost/unused/ineffectual efficacy!)

In the real world most people don’t live near wind turbine so the distribution grid come into play, every time you step up power you use & lose a percentage of the power in stepping up, the further that stepped up power has to travel the less power ends up at the destination vs. some ware much closer, when it gets to near its destination it will be stepped down from e.g. 25kv down to e.g 11kv ware it will make its way to minor substation ware it will end up at e.g. 650v, 415v & 240v ware the latter will then wind its way a short distance to your house, so at the very minimum power from wind turbine will be stepped up once and stepped down at least twice. The cost of stepping up or down is ~5% per time and this apply to all forms of electrical output into a grid not just wind power.

The trouble with wind turbine on paper and on the ground they look good on the best days under optimal conditions, however the reality when looked at over a year is much different, each 3.65 days of non use is 1% loss of efficiency in a given year, it is not cost effective to have them turning in very light winds as you are consuming life expectancy and service interval without adequate return to cover that cost, and though ~20rpm is optimum speed blade speed for the generator to be at its peek rpm to get maximum power you still need much more wind speed so the generator can be loaded up agenised the wind via blade pitch.

At least with something like a bio-digester you can run a very big 50% efficient diesel engine for between 12h & 18h a day covering the peak power usage times and be >>30% efficient into the grid (inc 1 step-up) and you can then offset that “perceived inefficiency†in that you are in-taking green waste that would otherwise be lost/end up in landfill etc so are performing an extra service in helping deal with a problem, so when you factor in an inland wind turbine only ends up being about 35% efficiency its self and doesn’t necessarily give you power on-demand or deal with a second problem to justify its inefficacy they do end up looking less attractive once things are factored in in a realistic manner or with an eye on cost.

Edited September 7, 2011 by b101_uk

[Dwarden 1125]

most wind turbines are far below theoretical maximum of 59% (by Betz law) efficiency

some experimental turbines are (very slightly) above that (again unsure how Wind Lens affect this too)

anyway Wind power is same like Solar, it can't be (yet) our primary 24/7/365 source

yet i applaud this Japanese for proving that simple gas flow rule being used to increase production from even existing wind turbines ...

[walker 0]

Hi all

When Mecedes Benz invented the first car I am sure people said it will never replace the horse but any that were sensible enough to invest...

Kind Regards walker

[PELHAM 10]

Hi all

When Mecedes Benz invented the first car I am sure people said it will never replace the horse but any that were sensible enough to invest...

Kind Regards walker

No they didn't because steam vehicles and engines were commonplace and had already replaced horses in many roles. Internal combustion initially replaced steam vehicles, not horses. (PS it was Karl Benz who invented the first gasoline powered car, Daimler/Mercedes jumped aboard later. There were lots of steam powered cars around at the time that were awful to operate and maintain.)

I buy shares occasionally and I have put some money into a wind turbine manufacturer because they make a healthy profit from government grants. Political pressure from people like Walker who rave about this like it is some sort of religion results in the grants increasing year on year and so do the shares, so it's good for me. My nightmare is the withdrawal of the grants, if wind power had to stand on it's own two feet, financially it would fail.

I have put a larger sum into the nuclear division of EDF who are about to start construction of the new plants in the UK. We will see what generates the biggest return - I'll let you know in 5 years ;)

[b101_uk 10]

Hi all

When Mecedes Benz invented the first car I am sure people said it will never replace the horse but any that were sensible enough to invest...

Kind Regards walker

Karl Benz (Benz & Cie/ Benz Söhne) the modern two- stroke petrol engine and first car amongst other things, also of note his wife Bertha Benz the inventor of easily replicable Brake linings and the first person to undertake a car journey of any significant distance (~106km)

Gottlieb Daimler and Wilhelm Maybach AKA: DMG (Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft) the modern petrol 4 stroke engine (while working at Deutz-AG-Gasmotorenfabrik for/with Nikolaus Otto), first motorcycle, petrol engine boat, first true airship, first bus which was also the first vehicle to reach the dizzying speed of 10mph (~16kph) and other things.

The union of DMG board and Benz & Cie to from Daimler-Benz AG was in 1926 and the thus naming of their vehicle brand Mercedes-Benz

[walker 0]

Hi all

This whole lecture series is worth watching but skip to 06:43 it explains:

owa32MvjBik

Kind Regards walker

[PELHAM 10]

Yes but FM WAS better than AM......

Your clownish hydrogen storage system in floating gas bags "way up in the sky" is NOT better than the alternatives and you can't demonstrate any practical way for it to work.

FM in your example was clearly demonstrated to be a better and practical technology. You have not achieved this for the hydrogen energy storage system that you proposed. Go ahead and provide scientific evidence, calculations, drawings and engineering solutions and convince us otherwise. If you can...........

Edited September 7, 2011 by PELHAM

[Daniel 0]

Purely on the subject of new energy technology, this is an interesting interview.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9585000/9585189.stm

[walker 0]

Hi all

Well the Japanese Government seems to think Wind Power is the way of the future.

Japan plans floating wind power for Fukushima coast

By Yoko Kubota

TOKYO | Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:37am EDT

(Reuters) - Japan will join the race to develop floating wind turbines to use in deepwater off its tsunami-stricken northern Pacific coast as it rethinks energy sources after the Fukushima nuclear disaster.

It aims to outpace the leaders in the sector in Europe, trade ministry official Masanori Sato said on Tuesday.

"In order to take lead in offshore wind power, we want domestic studies and developments to take place and manufacturers to boost capabilities," said Sato.

"From the viewpoint of supporting reconstruction and promoting wind power, we believe it is good to pursue research and development for offshore wind farms," he said.

In the next five years, Japan plans to spend 10 to 20 billion yen to install six or more floating turbines off the northeast coast. It will work with firms including Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Fuji Heavy Industries, Sato said...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/13/us-japan-wind-idUSTRE78C41M20110913

Guess I get to say Nah Nah told you so! :D

Kind Regards walker

[st_dux 26]

None of this is meant to suggest traditional power sources such as coal and nuclear sources are problem-free—clearly they aren't—or that Virginia should never give wind a second thought. Clearly it should. The point is simply this: Environmentalists touting renewable energy sometimes sound like Lewis Strauss predicting in 1954 that atomic power would make electricity "too cheap to meter." His lofty prediction was too good to be true—and so is theirs.

Full article: http://reason.com/archives/2011/09/13/the-renewable-energy-boondoggl

[walker 0]

Hi all

First public UK Hydrogen Filling Station.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14979817

You put down a rock in the desert.

Next day you do the same.

You continue on... some people join you... within a couple of decades you have built the Pyramid at Giza and the cities and empire that support it.

All from one rock.

I do not think it will take decades for this one though, 3 to 7 years is my estimate.

Kind Regards walker

---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 PM ----------

Hi all

And the final link...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14976893

Moddies can close the thread if they wish!

Kind Regards walker

Edited September 20, 2011 by walker

[maddogx 13]

An interesting article regarding some hydrogen storage developments: http://www.gizmag.com/room-temperature-hydrogen-storage/19894/

:)