Can't fly in a straight line (auto trim off.).

[Alex72 1]

Using keyboard for pedals with the same way as the throttle is a bit hard i guess since the pedals will move "slowly" at a set pace and thus hard to do quicker maneuvers. BIS might come up with some way to solve it though. However i do think personally if one is interested in flying more realistic sims a joystick/HOTAS is the way to go. Same as getting a steering wheel when into racing.

[ziiip 1]

So this is realistic and not just a bug?

[PELHAM 10]

So this is realistic and not just a bug?

Yep it's realistic - flying helicopters is very difficllt lol. It took me awhile to realise it too.

I was flipping the throttle to max for takeoff and wondering why the helo was bucking all over the sky - it's the torque + tail rotor. We have to forget the way we flew in Arma 2.

[kylania 568]

if memory serves me right you can edit your config files to change the built in settings and give yourself autorotate at expert level. its like that in arma2 and should be like that in this tkoh preview.

not by my pc so can't tell you the exact file though.

No one should have to manually edit config files for something like this. It should be an option from the start.

[nightsta1ker 10]

The devs are working on it being realistic. They don't quite have it down pat... yet. But this is just a preview for feedback. I would say the only way to nail the flight behavior would be to have pilots with hundreds of real hours help develop the game, which they don't, letting the community test it and changing the game based on our feedback is the next best thing.

There are some quirky things about TOH that I do not like, but they have already been addressed and hopefully will be changed before the final release.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

The problem is AutoTrim doesn't exist in Veteran mode and I don't want to play in Recruit mode.

Why don't you want to play in Regular (I assume) mode? You can setup all the other difficulties to match what is default for Veteran. For a pure helicopter sim, I would expect autotrim not be available in Veteran, and all the other helpers (hard landing, stress forces and whatever) to be forced off in Expert mode.

Not so much for Arma3 though, which isn't a pure helicopter sim.

[celery 8]

Why don't you want to play in Regular (I assume) mode? You can setup all the other difficulties to match what is default for Veteran. For a pure helicopter sim, I would expect autotrim not be available in Veteran, and all the other helpers (hard landing, stress forces and whatever) to be forced off in Expert mode.

Not so much for Arma3 though, which isn't a pure helicopter sim.

Most non-joystick players will be effectively barred from playing on many of the servers if higher difficulties prevent autotrim and if there is no solution to make them cope with it.

[Archosaurusrev 12]

It may be realistic, but adding a gradual slider for pedals for keyboard users will not mess with the stick controls.

It's a win win, it's not like pedals perform the same way as keys anyway, it would make it more realistic imo.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I beg of you, add the option for auto-trim back to Veteran mode. Like the OP, it is nigh upon impossible to fly with a mouse and a keyboard if auto-trim is not enabled.

Stick users can keep it disabled. Stickless users can enable it. Everyone wins.

Edited July 23, 2011 by CameronMcDonald

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Most non-joystick players will be effectively barred from playing on many of the servers if higher difficulties prevent autotrim and if there is no solution to make them cope with it.

There is a solution. Get the right equipment to fly helicopters realistically. It's not a fortune. If I run a server at a certain mode, it's because I expect those who joins to be able to run at that mode. Like in Arma, I don't run server without 3rd person or crosshairs so that people can override it. Vote to run in regular mode or join an appropriate server.

That being said, how deep will multiplayer be in the first place, compared to Arma? I really don't expect to see any co30 games going on, more like co2-5 depending on crew. If you can't fly the chopper, I'm sure other crew stations will be more suitable.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

There is a solution. Get the right equipment to fly helicopters realistically. It's not a fortune.

I disagree. Not everyone has a Sidewinder and pedals sitting around. This is like arguing that vehicle driving should be inaccessible to everyone who hasn't got a wheel and pedals.

Not only does preventing auto-trim in veteran exclude all players sans stick/pedals from MP, but it makes SP a pleasant walk through hell as well.

[PELHAM 10]

I have an old MS sidewinder with twist-grip and a throttle - With a lot of practice I am able to fly it reasonably well and I am starting to get adventurous. Honestly, the secret is small movements, care with the throttle (less power is better) so you don't over torque and follow the bouncing white stability ball!

Landings - I either hit too hard and roll over or get over cautious with stopping and fly backwards! Anyone got any tips on the last 5m of flight?

[Archosaurusrev 12]

I have an old MS sidewinder with twist-grip and a throttle - With a lot of practice I am able to fly it reasonably well and I am starting to get adventurous. Honestly, the secret is small movements, care with the throttle (less power is better) so you don't over torque and follow the bouncing white stability ball!

Landings - I either hit too hard and roll over or get over cautious with stopping and fly backwards! Anyone got any tips on the last 5m of flight?

What the hell does this have to do with the thread?

Fucking posting without reading the OP, I hate that...

[blu3sman 11]

How about compromise: get yourself a gamepad.;)

It's good for controlling any vehicle. And it's cheap.

I am flying preview now with logitech rumblepad2 and I have absolutely no problems with control. Even in hover.

[celery 8]

How about compromise: get yourself a gamepad.;)

It's good for controlling any vehicle. And it's cheap.

I am flying preview now with logitech rumblepad2 and I have absolutely no problems with control. Even in hover.

I'd rather that we didn't have to make compromises. The game is still under development, and this thread offers feedback to the devs.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Not everyone has a Sidewinder and pedals sitting around.

I did say get.

This is like arguing that vehicle driving should be inaccessible to everyone who hasn't got a wheel and pedals.

Like realistic racing sims? Don't expect to win races with digital controls at highest difficulties or without aids. The aid needed is available at lower difficulties, just like every other significant aid.

It's also same as saying we're making Arma inaccessible by using no 3rd person to those who enjoy using fake 3rd person - I mean, yeah, that's the whole idea, isn't it - to shut out these cheaters? If you can't tackle non piloting slots in a realistic helicopter sim on realistic levels, take another slot (copilot/searcher/hoist operator) or choose another server. This is not Arma - a game, but a simulator.

That being said, we still don't know what the MP part of TAKOH will be. If it turns out to be more of an action game, I might change my mind about this.

Not only does preventing auto-trim in veteran exclude all players sans stick/pedals from MP, but it makes SP a pleasant walk through hell as well.

SP? You can setup SP difficulties to your hearts desire, like everything in regular and veteran being equal. Choose regular and set it up same as veteran.

Note that even with pedals and joystick, my piloting skills without auto trim (which I refuse to use so far), pretty much suck. That doesn't influence my view though.

[celery 8]

Like realistic racing sims? Don't expect to win races with digital controls at highest difficulties or without aids. The aid needed is available at lower difficulties, just like every other significant aid.

BI pretty much proved that you can make awesome helicopter controls for mouse and keyboard without sacrificing much realism or performance. Making it almost 1:1 comparable to joystick in terms of flying performance rests on this pedal control feature.

[nightsta1ker 10]

BI pretty much proved that you can make awesome helicopter controls for mouse and keyboard without sacrificing much realism or performance. Making it almost 1:1 comparable to joystick in terms of flying performance rests on this pedal control feature.

I don't see how you can implement smooth and ergonomic pedal control without a joystick or pedals. I've thought about it, and I just don't see how it could be done. Like Carl said, if you don't have the necessary controls, use the aids that enable you to fly it WITHOUT the necessary controls. I think it's hypocritical to ask for realism and then complain that on full realism settings you can't control the helicopter with your keyboard and mouse. If you wan't realism, get some real controls. If you want to fly with a mouse and keyboard, you are going to have to sacrifice some realism. You don't fly a real helicopter with a mouse and keyboard. Just my two cents

Edited July 24, 2011 by nightsta1ker

[celery 8]

I don't see how you can implement smooth and ergonomic pedal control without a joystick or pedals. I've thought about it, and I just don't see how it could be done. Like Carl said, if you don't have the necessary controls, use the aids that enable you to fly it WITHOUT the necessary controls. I think it's hypocritical to ask for realism and then complain that on full realism settings you can't control the helicopter with your keyboard and mouse. If you wan't realism, get some real controls. If you want to fly with a mouse and keyboard, you are going to have to sacrifice some realism. You don't fly a real helicopter with a mouse and keyboard. Just my two cents

Geez, it's only been discussed in this very thread. You know, analog rudder control/trimming keys? All this "you WILL need a joystick if..." stuff sounds like to me is appallment over the preposterous notion that a guy controlling his chopper with a mouse and keyboard can be better than someone who's invested money in a HOTAS/whatever controller setup simply because he's the better pilot.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Celery

[CarlGustaffa 4]

What?

Realism = Having to deal with rudder and trim in the proper way.

Autotrim != Realism at all, so it doesn't belong in Veteran mode where such realism is expected.

Try to come up with different control schemes that would work for you with a keyboard rather than ask for autotrim for a difficulty mode where (imo) it doesn't belong.

How about?

y - -10

u - -1

i - center

o - +1

p - +10

Or function keys setting rudder directly, with F5 being neutral?

Point being, in a veteran mode you should have to manage rudder (sorry, I'm a GA fly boy :p) rather than completely ignore it.

[celery 8]

What?

Realism = Having to deal with rudder and trim in the proper way.

Autotrim != Realism at all, so it doesn't belong in Veteran mode where such realism is expected.

Try to come up with different control schemes that would work for you with a keyboard rather than ask for autotrim for a difficulty mode where (imo) it doesn't belong.

How about?

y - -10

u - -1

i - center

o - +1

p - +10

Or function keys setting rudder directly, with F5 being neutral?

Point being, in a veteran mode you should have to manage rudder (sorry, I'm a GA fly boy :p) rather than completely ignore it.

If you haven't noticed, there was also talk about how to manage it with autotrim off, i.e. analog keyboard control similar to throttle. That is a far more important topic than what difficulty level disables autotrim.

[nightsta1ker 10]

Celery, my point is that it's apples and oranges. You hardcore keyboard guys are blowing my mind.

Do whatever you want. My joystick cost me $30. It has proven itself worth every penny.

[Nicholas 5]

Can't fly in a straight line

You haven't been drinking, have you? :nener:

Anyways, I believe it has to do with the torque of the engine and other weather effects.

[celery 8]

Celery, my point is that it's apples and oranges. You hardcore keyboard guys are blowing my mind.

Do whatever you want. My joystick cost me $30. It has proven itself worth every penny.

What are the apples and what are the oranges again? Ignoring the fact that the mouse and keyboard controls are very nearly perfect, you stated that you must use a joystick if you want realism. And you use that as an argument for BI to not implement a rudder control system that would solve the problem for mkb users.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

my joystick was given free to me (sidewinder precision pro) and I'm glad I didn't pay for it ;)