Can someone explaint Manual Trim and Setup

[habnor 19]

I have a HOTAS setup, and have trim dials and see set trim option in the game window. I see it has configs for keys in control options, but not exactly sure how to set this up properly... Can someone with a clue fill in a newb?

Also explain what the release is, and when I would want to use that? Very confused :D

Be much appreciated...

[sbsmac 0]

Manual trim allows you to compensate for the 'offset' you need to apply to controls. You already know that due to the torque of the rotor, you need to apply quite a bit of left pedal just to stop the aircraft starting to rotate (yaw) to the right. If you press the 'manual trim set' button at the point you have the left pedal down enough to stop this rotation, you can then move the pedals back to 'neutral' without inducing huge amounts of right yaw and the same amount of left pedal you previously used to prevent any yaw at all should now cause a left yaw as you would expect.

If you set manual trim a second time the effect is cumulative(1). It's quite easy to build up massive amounts of trim by accident through a succession of manual sets so the 'release' button is useful to zero the offsets and return the controls to the settings they were when you got in the aircraft.

Bottom line is this.... if you take off slowly and carefully add enough left pedal so you aren't spinning before pressing manual-trim-set you should be able to get away with a lot less left pedal from that point onwards.

(1) I'm assuming that in real aircraft the system works a bit differently and just changes the position of the centering springs on the control so that rather than having to move the control back to neutral, it just _feels_ as if the control is at neutral. Perhaps someone who knows a bit more can confirm this?

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

the explanation was helpful, for me at least. thanks

so using a basic joystick with default binds and without pedal hardware, would I then twist the joystick left (CCW) to adjust and set the manual trim?

[habnor 19]

Manual trim allows you to compensate for the 'offset' you need to apply to controls. You already know that due to the torque of the rotor, you need to apply quite a bit of left pedal just to stop the aircraft starting to rotate (yaw) to the right. If you press the 'manual trim set' button at the point you have the left pedal down enough to stop this rotation, you can then move the pedals back to 'neutral' without inducing huge amounts of right yaw and the same amount of left pedal you previously used to prevent any yaw at all should now cause a left yaw as you would expect.

If you set manual trim a second time the effect is cumulative(1). It's quite easy to build up massive amounts of trim by accident through a succession of manual sets so the 'release' button is useful to zero the offsets and return the controls to the settings they were when you got in the aircraft.

Bottom line is this.... if you take off slowly and carefully add enough left pedal so you aren't spinning before pressing manual-trim-set you should be able to get away with a lot less left pedal from that point onwards.

(1) I'm assuming that in real aircraft the system works a bit differently and just changes the position of the centering springs on the control so that rather than having to move the control back to neutral, it just _feels_ as if the control is at neutral. Perhaps someone who knows a bit more can confirm this?

Thanks, that's great info..

[.kju 3244]

Be aware of the different default settings and possibilities to change in difficulty settings:

class CfgDifficulties
{
class Recruit
{
	class Flags
	{
		extendetInfoType[] = {1,1};
		roughLanding[] = {1,1};
		windEnabled[] = {0,1};
		autoTrimEnabled[] = {1,1};
		stressDamageEnabled[] = {0,1};
	};
};
class Regular
{
	class Flags
	{
		extendetInfoType[] = {1,1};
		roughLanding[] = {0,1};
		windEnabled[] = {1,1};
		autoTrimEnabled[] = {0,1};
		stressDamageEnabled[] = {1,1};
	};
};
class Veteran
{
	class Flags
	{
		extendetInfoType[] = {0,1};
		roughLanding[] = {0,0};
		windEnabled[] = {1,0};
		autoTrimEnabled[] = {0,0};
		stressDamageEnabled[] = {1,0};
	};
};
class Mercenary
{
	class Flags
	{
		extendetInfoType[] = {0,0};
		roughLanding[] = {0,0};
		windEnabled[] = {1,0};
		autoTrimEnabled[] = {0,0};
		stressDamageEnabled[] = {1,0};
	};
};
};

[sbsmac 0]

so using a basic joystick with default binds and without pedal hardware, would I then twist the joystick left (CCW) to adjust and set the manual trim?

Yes. One thing I have noticed is that there is a little contradictory 'kick' in the wrong direction as the trim takes affect which may be why so many people are confused about the way this works :) What you tend to see is...

1) Take off slowly and hover. Hold left pedal or twist joystick left to stop yaw.

2) Press 'manual-trim' but _don't_ release pedal/twist. The aircraft will 'kick' to the right for a second before starting to yaw left since the left-pedal/twist is now offset from the new zero position.

3) Release pedal/joystick to neutral position. At this point you should be hovering without any appreciable yaw. Obviously you'll still need to apply small amounts of pedal/twist as you take the collective up and down.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

Be aware of the different default settings and possibilities to change in difficulty settings:

class CfgDifficulties
{
class Recruit
{
	class Flags
	{
		extendetInfoType[] = {1,1};
		roughLanding[] = {1,1};
		windEnabled[] = {0,1};
		autoTrimEnabled[] = {1,1};
		stressDamageEnabled[] = {0,1};
	};
};
class Regular
{
	class Flags
	{
		extendetInfoType[] = {1,1};
		roughLanding[] = {0,1};
		windEnabled[] = {1,1};
		autoTrimEnabled[] = {0,1};
		stressDamageEnabled[] = {1,1};
	};
};
class Veteran
{
	class Flags
	{
		extendetInfoType[] = {0,1};
		roughLanding[] = {0,0};
		windEnabled[] = {1,0};
		autoTrimEnabled[] = {0,0};
		stressDamageEnabled[] = {1,0};
	};
};
class Mercenary
{
	class Flags
	{
		extendetInfoType[] = {0,0};
		roughLanding[] = {0,0};
		windEnabled[] = {1,0};
		autoTrimEnabled[] = {0,0};
		stressDamageEnabled[] = {1,0};
	};
};
};

thanks. i was unaware of the changes that a particular difficulty setting had on the helicopters control.

here are the settings, displayed while editing the Veteran mode, in Options/Difficulty

[OMAC 254]

Manual trim allows you to compensate for the 'offset' you need to apply to controls. You already know that due to the torque of the rotor, you need to apply quite a bit of left pedal just to stop the aircraft starting to rotate (yaw) to the right. If you press the 'manual trim set' button at the point you have the left pedal down enough to stop this rotation, you can then move the pedals back to 'neutral' without inducing huge amounts of right yaw and the same amount of left pedal you previously used to prevent any yaw at all should now cause a left yaw as you would expect.

If you set manual trim a second time the effect is cumulative(1). It's quite easy to build up massive amounts of trim by accident through a succession of manual sets so the 'release' button is useful to zero the offsets and return the controls to the settings they were when you got in the aircraft.

Bottom line is this.... if you take off slowly and carefully add enough left pedal so you aren't spinning before pressing manual-trim-set you should be able to get away with a lot less left pedal from that point onwards.

(1) I'm assuming that in real aircraft the system works a bit differently and just changes the position of the centering springs on the control so that rather than having to move the control back to neutral, it just _feels_ as if the control is at neutral. Perhaps someone who knows a bit more can confirm this?

Thank you very much for the helpful info. I'd asked about manual trim before, and never got an answer. Knowing how to use manual trim makes flying and landing with auto trim off much easier.

[PELHAM 10]

Does manual trim set only affect yaw? I just tried to set it and lost roll and pitch control and crashed!

Also find the heli is persistantly trying to roll to the right. I will recalibrate the joystick but not had any problems before?

[jumpinghubert 49]

i have a little bit rolling to the right too since first release. x, y axis and pedals are affected by manual trim.

[OMAC 254]

i have a little bit rolling to the right too since first release. x, y axis and pedals are affected by manual trim.

I only play on Veteran, and now no autotrim is available for that difficulty, so manual trim set is much more important than before. Landing is now harder in that the heli will drift significantly, even in autohover and at low speed. The drift (trim?) can possibly be corrected with manual trim set and/or just using the mouse to roll a little.

[Remon 10]

On the topic of trim, is there anyone here with a FFB joystick here that can tell us if trim works with FFB?

[habnor 19]

I only play on Veteran, and now no autotrim is available for that difficulty, so manual trim set is much more important than before. Landing is now harder in that the heli will drift significantly, even in autohover and at low speed. The drift (trim?) can possibly be corrected with manual trim set and/or just using the mouse to roll a little.

Is there a new third patch or something Im missing? Autotrim works even on expert as far as I know.... even has a bug where its already on...

[OMAC 254]

Is there a new third patch or something Im missing? Autotrim works even on expert as far as I know.... even has a bug where its already on...

Yes, I'm using 82503, the third beta.

[habnor 19]

Oh cool, have something to do tomorrow now :D

[4 IN 1 0]

Auto trim is now under opinion=>difficulty=>*difficulty level*=>edit in yhe new version of CP

Edited July 10, 2011 by 4 IN 1

[Braindrool 10]

How would I set the trim without a joystick? Is it possible? I've tried and the yaw is always too much or too little with the keyboard. I'm looking forward to playing this as a big helicopter fan, but would I need to buy a joystick?

[OMAC 254]

How would I set the trim without a joystick? Is it possible? I've tried and the yaw is always too much or too little with the keyboard. I'm looking forward to playing this as a big helicopter fan, but would I need to buy a joystick?

You won't need a joystick. I play without one on Veteran with no autotrim, and I'm having a lot of fun with the 3rd beta. It's really a matter of preference.

[Braindrool 10]

So I should just get used to constant yaw / uneven flight?

[OMAC 254]

So I should just get used to constant yaw / uneven flight?

Yes - but there's always "manual trim set" to stop that when you need to. I find that with good speed, the craft becomes quite stable and easier to control.

On Veteran with kb/mouse, I find that I don't often need thrust (Q/Z) and manual trim set to takeoff, fly, and land.

Practice using Ass&Trash.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=121943

Also you can play on easier difficulty to get autotrim.

[Braindrool 10]

I think you misunderstood my post.

[OMAC 254]

I think you misunderstood my post.

Stop posting and practice - you need it.

[Innomadic 10]

Didn't feel the need to post a new thread, and this seemed close enough to what i'm searching for.

Is there an analogue trim setting in the controls menu much like the throttle action that i've slaved to my X52P Throttle stick? I've got two analogue radials on that stick that have no real use, but if i could slave trim to that it would make flying ALOT easier, as the stick twist for yaw is quite...shall we say, s***?

[zoog 18]

Should you also constantly re-trim during the flight? Like the trim procedure for Black Shark, where you have to trim everytime you make a new input? How is it done in real life with these helicopters?

[zentaos 10]

most helicopter trim has electric motors on the cyclic. There are no trim tabs on the rotor blades like there are on fixed wing control surfaces.

I have only ever been in two types of heli's, a Robinson R-22 which a have a very low 3.62 hours in my logbook for, and an Aerospatiale A350 Astar (squirrel) which I was in the back seat for the ride.

A robinson has a right trim knob next to the mixture control. basically this takes the left pressure off the cyclic for cruising. you pull the knob, it relieves the left pressure you have to hold on the cyclic.

The Astar had a top hat trim on the cyclic. The pilots told me, once you have your flight attitude established, you use the 4-way hat to relieve cyclic pressure. I've read that some systems have a "force trim" that is more like what BIS have done in TKoH. where you basically hit the button and the system removes all pressure from whatever position you have the cyclic in.

to my knowledge, there aren't any trim controls for the pedals. you have to hold left pressure until you have enough forward speed that the vertical stabilizer takes effect and relieves pedal pressure.

maybe some ships that have more sophisticated autopilot/autohover systems have pedal trim, but I have no experience with them.

In aircraft, trim is not meant to help stabilize your flight, that's the pilot's job. Trim is meant to relieve control forces to reduce pilot work load to hold the desired aircraft attitude for cruising.

Edited September 22, 2011 by zentaos