Weapon Lock

[Adjutant 10]

In many cases it is difficult to control the friendly fire hazard when the 90 degree FOV is combined with operating in a close formation. This is especially important in an urban setting where the limited situational awareness increases the risk of such accidents.

1. The subject is not about IFF. It is about friendlies running into your line of fire or not knowing that you have just thrown a grenade into a room.

2. If somebody breaks from your formation and runs 5 metres in front of you without giving any warning, the weapon lock detects when he is dangerously close to the firing line and stops the shooter. A certain range threshold needs to be in place and 15-30 metres would be sufficient as IFF is not an issue there.

3. The normal rules for IFF will apply if an unidentified person is in your sights at say 100 metres and if you make a mistake you can potentially kill a friendly (weapon lock will not interfere).

4. Finally a 3-dimensional circle grenade indicator can highlight where a friendly grenade is thrown to units in sufficient proximity. This greatly helps when voice chat is unavailable for one reason or another. The indicator is mostly beneficial in clearing buildings as it will ensure that each player has the warning not to enter a particular room.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Adjutant

[cole 0]

ArmA 3: Modern Warfare?

[the.d 0]

Please don't automate the mastering of intrinsic gameplay challenges - this would be a typical feature to dumb the game down. In short: What Cole said.

[Adjutant 10]

No, Modern Warfare does not have 3-dimensional grenade indicators for friendlies. It indicates only enemy grenades in a 2-dimensional way whereas the suggestion is only friendly grenades in a 3-d way provided there is sufficient proximity.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Adjutant

[MissileMoose 10]

I partially agree with the last suggestion, this would help if nobody is talking. It could be an optional setting on the server-side, it's not something I would have activated though.

I do disagree with the "weapon lock" though, friendly-fire is a real life problem and to disable it in the way that you described makes me think of COD. Edit: Maybe not.

Just my opinion, not hating on you for having yours though. :)

Edited June 26, 2011 by MissileMoose

[Adjutant 10]

I partially agree with the last suggestion, this would help if nobody is talking. It could be an optional setting on the server-side, it's not something I would have activated though.

I do disagree with the "weapon lock" though, friendly-fire is a real life problem and to disable it in the way that you described makes me think of COD. Edit: Maybe not.

Just my opinion, not hating on you for having yours though. :)

This is a good point, but the issue with the weapon lock is the same as with the 3D friendly grenade indicator. I had very few friendly fire incidents in Cold War Crisis campaign. Mostly it was A.I. running in front of my fire line where I could not see him in advance as sighting the weapon greatly reduces how much you can see. Thinking about it now it is probably a non-issue as Arma offers wide open expanses of land.

[jblackrupert 14]

FF is one the things that defines Arma.

[Maddmatt 1]

Not a bad thing for the lowest difficulty, for the newbies.

When I first started with OFP I had a lot of trouble telling enemies and friendlies apart. Resulted in me frequently shooting friendlies.

After a while got to the point where I could turn all friendly/enemy tags off and could tell enemies and friendlies apart just from seeing them.

[jblackrupert 14]

If people are having trouble telling the difference between soldiers they can drop

then in the editor and look at them there.

They can also play modes like AAS which has a mini-map and friendly tags just like Battlefield.

You hit CTRL-T to increase the view distance of tags up to 1500 metres.

[Adjutant 10]

This is another misunderstanding. The subject is not about IFF. It is about friendlies running into your line of fire or not knowing that you have just thrown a grenade into a room.

The normal rules for IFF will apply if an unidentified person is in your sights at say 100 metres, so the game will not tell you if it is a friendly or a foe. This you have to deduce yourself and if you make a mistake you can potentially kill a friendly (weapon lock will not interfere).

If on the other hand, somebody breaks from your formation and runs 5 metres in front of you without giving any warning, the weapon lock detects when he is dangerously close to the firing line and stops the shooter.

A certain range threshold needs to be in place and 15-30 metres would be sufficient as IFF is not an issue there.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Adjutant

[Tonci87 163]

Oh no please not such a crap. If you can´t tell the difference between Friendlies and enemys, then simply don´t shoot

[Adjutant 10]

Oh no please not such a crap. If you can´t tell the difference between Friendlies and enemys, then simply don´t shoot

I can tell the difference, what is the point you are trying to make?

Edited June 26, 2011 by Adjutant

[BlackAlpha 10]

Oh no please not such a crap. If you can´t tell the difference between Friendlies and enemys, then simply don´t shoot

It's not about identifying friend or foe, it's about people running into your line of fire. It's about your weapon not shooting friendlies in such situations.

I don't see the problem by implementing such a feature. Even the grenade notification that shows where friendly grenades are could be useful. As long as it can be toggled on or off. Personally, I would only use it in singleplayer, because the AI plays in two highly unrealistic ways that make those two mentioned features very useful:

1. The AI carelessly runs into your line of fire and doesn't tell you so before hand.

2. The AI throws grenades at/near your position and doesn't tell you so before hand.

But these two reasons can be applied in multiplayer as well, when people don't communicate properly. So people might want to use these features even in multiplayer, if they prefer a more arcade kind of gameplay.

The weapon locking feature could apply the following rules: Only lock on identified friendly units. Only lock when aiming directly at a unit. Only lock on units within 25 or so meters. Only lock when looking down the sight.

The grenade notification doesn't even have to be 3D. I don't really see why it has to be 3D, to be honest. A 2D icon on top of a friendly nearby grenade (like happens in most FPS these days) could do the trick.

Edited June 26, 2011 by BlackAlpha

[rye1 21]

Friendly Fire safeguards, agreed. :)

Also a safeguard on respawn, when low fps and you click it by accident.... gah! Should say are you sure? Yes or No. Pretty simple.

[Adjutant 10]

The grenade notification doesn't even have to be 3D. I don't really see why it has to be 3D, to be honest. A 2D icon on top of a friendly nearby grenade (like happens in most FPS these days) could do the trick.

If an icon is on top of a friendly grenade, isn't that 3D indication? It is very useful in an urban context where your friendly may not be able to tell you that he has just thrown a grenade into a room, but the icon will indicate grenades not just within your range, but behind walls as well.

---------- Post added at 02:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------

Friendly Fire safeguards, agreed. :)

Also a safeguard on respawn, when low fps and you click it by accident.... gah! Should say are you sure? Yes or No. Pretty simple.

Sorry I cannot understand what you are trying to say.

[BlackAlpha 10]

If an icon is on top of a friendly grenade, isn't that 3D indication? It is very useful in an urban context where your friendly may not be able to tell you that he has just thrown a grenade into a room, but the icon will indicate grenades not just within your range, but behind walls as well.

OK, I misunderstood what you meant with 3D. In the situation you describe, yes, that would be 3D; the icon is placed in a 3 dimensional space. But the icon itself can be 2D, that's what I was talking about.

The icon can be put on top of the grenade. The icon could be some sort of circle. The circle gets smaller when the threat is further away. The circle gets bigger when it's closer.

This system could be applied to other kinds of explosives as well, like mines and satchels. So, in multiplayer, when you mine a road or prepare to demolish a building, people on your team will know.

Sorry I cannot understand what you are trying to say.

He's saying that when you spawn, there should be a short time period during which you cannot fire your weapon (by accident). Like your weapon locking for 2 seconds after spawning.

Then he suggest that when you do try to fire during that time period, a pop up should appear with the question: "Do you want to fire your weapon?" And you can choose "Yes" or "No".

Personally, I think the popup is not that useful. A short delay before you can fire your weapon would be more intuitive.

Edited June 26, 2011 by BlackAlpha

[Adjutant 10]

OK, I misunderstood what you meant with 3D. In the situation you describe, yes, that would be 3D; the icon is placed in a 3 dimensional space. But the icon itself can be 2D, that's what I was talking about.

The icon can be put on top of the grenade. The icon could be some sort of circle. The circle gets smaller when the threat is further away. The circle gets bigger when it's closer.

This system could be applied to other kinds of explosives as well, like mines and satchels. So, in multiplayer, when you mine a road or prepare to demolish a building, people on your team will know.

Exactly, I am genuinely impressed with your ability to comprehend english, I think people here are generally tired of the same old suggestions and tend to wave anything off after looking at the title or reading the first line.

EDIT: With grenade indication there only needs to be sufficient proximity. So when it is close enough to be dangerous to you. If you are too far away, there is no need for the indicator to light up.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Adjutant

[BlackAlpha 10]

Exactly, I am genuinely impressed with your ability to comprehend english, I think people here are generally tired of the same old suggestions and tend to wave anything off after looking at the title or reading the first line.

EDIT: With grenade indication there only needs to be sufficient proximity. So when it is close enough to be dangerous to you. If you are too far away, there is no need for the indicator to light up.

Maybe, but people also don't want ArmA to turn into Call of Duty (I'm one of those people). However, if such features (weapon locking and notification of explosives) can be toggled on or off, then ArmA will continue to be the mil-sim, while making the game more accessible for people who think a mil-sim is too hardcore.

And it's also nice for when you are playing together with the AI in singleplayer. For example, in singleplayer I adjust the difficulty settings to the point where I can see the enemy position on the map (after they have been spotted). The reason for this is that the AI usually reports: "Enemy man, to our front." Then I check the map and the "enemy man" is somewhere behind us, and NOT to our front. So some of these arcade difficulty settings are very useful when playing singleplayer. But they are also useful in multiplayer when you are playing with people who don't communicate.

[Adjutant 10]

.

And it's also nice for when you are playing together with the AI in singleplayer. For example, in singleplayer I adjust the difficulty settings to the point where I can see the enemy position on the map (after they have been spotted). The reason for this is that the AI usually reports: "Enemy man, to our front." Then I check the map and the "enemy man" is somewhere behind us, and NOT to our front. So some of these arcade difficulty settings are very useful when playing singleplayer. But they are also useful in multiplayer when you are playing with people who don't communicate.

Strange, Cold War Crisis is older but the A.I. in tandem with the clock system was so accurate it immersed me in the game. The clock was my situational awareness and really made the difference, it saved me from certain death on many occasions where I was walking into enemy teeth before my team warned me.

---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 PM ----------

http://www.pcdistrict.com/modules/productcatalog/product_images/143699-operation-flashpoint-resistance-8110.jpg

I am using the above screenshot for reference. There needs to be a "danger close" threshold for firearms. Friendly troops that are further away from the shooter (at about 30 metres) need more time to actually move into his firing line, whereas if you look at the troops who are closer (at about 10 metres), they are more dangerous as they can very quickly cross his firing line.

What this means is that weapon lock will have to be flexible and activate at different proximity thresholds depending on the range from the shooter. On a second thought it may be appropriate to give some warning to friendlies in front of the shooter as well (especially if they are facing away from the shooter), but I guess bullet crack and sound should be appropriate and distinct enough.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Adjutant

[nikiller 18]

hi,

the weapon lock detects when he is dangerously close to the firing line and stops the shooter.

Calculating if friendly is in bad position and can be in your line of fire is a waste of performance IMO. I understand it is difficult for a newby to don't make error in the formation placment but one of the first thing you learn when you play ofp/ArmA is to reconize enemy and to always pass behind friendly in a shooting position to avoid FF. If it makes the game more popular/accesible for new players (lock+grenade indicator) I don't mind and it is a good thing to welcome new peeps, at the moment where it is ON/OFF option or only aviaible in cadet mode. But I still think it's a total waste of performance I prefer to see ressource allocated to deadly AI.

cya.

Nikiller.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Nikiller

[Adjutant 10]

hi,

Calculating if friendly is in bad position and can be in your line of fire is a waste of performance IMO. I understand it is difficult for a newby to don't make error in the formation placment but one of the first thing you learn when you play ofp/ArmA is to reconize enemy and to always pass behind friendly in a shooting position to avoid FF. If it make the game more popular/accesible for new players (lock+grenade indicator) I don't mind and it is a good thing to welcome new peeps, at the moment where it is ON/OFF option or only aviaible in cadet mode. But I still think it's a total waste of performance I prefer to see ressource allocated to deadly AI.

cya.

Nikiller.

This is a good point as I have not given thought to how much processing power will be allocated to this system. It will have to check each soldier's firing path for friendlies within a specified range and if it locks, it will have to constantly update the position to see if he can shoot again. As I said before Arma offers wide open areas so this is actually a non-issue more or less.

[jblackrupert 14]

FF isn't just shooting someone you thought was the enemy.

Soldiers straying into the path of bullets, grenades and bombs happens in the real world also.

Arma is a open game so I guess someone could make a new mode that has this.

AAS has the vanilla version and pro mode.

[dysta 10]

Grenade can also be a silent weapon, not because of the "Thud!" noise when hitting the object sounds quieter than firearm, but also when it explode right in front of you. You will sense nothing but meeting the death.

[Maddmatt 1]

This is a good point as I have not given thought to how much processing power will be allocated to this system.

This isn't 1950, modern PCs aren't going to break a sweat on this... :rolleyes:

[5LEvEN 11]

I would say for easy difficulties on singleplayer only this would be useful... Unless people start playing Arma like MoH I don't see any need for this in multi-player.

Side note- I have roughly 20 TK in MoH with only 8 hours of game play. The reason, because some idiot walks into my line of fire when I am already firing... Or someone walks in front of me just as I click to call in mortars the result is me and the guy dead from the mortars...

I don't see why you guys are concerned with performance with these simple additions. Back years ago anisotropic filtering was actually taxing on GPU's. Now days I have yet to see one modern GPU that is effected by anisotropic filtering. Even on an 8400GS there is not 1FPS difference, or a higher load on the core GPU... In other words simple things like this should not effect fast dual or quad core CPUs, which is needed to run arma anyways :rolleyes: ...