Automatic Mod Downloading

[Alex72 1]

What about Skyrim and its Nexus Mod Manager?

On the newspage of Armaholic and the similar sites add links that will download to this standalone program ("download with ARMA Mod Manger" link) and it will install the mod automatically. Plus the NMM have the options to exclude include addons when starting the game (which also can be done from NMM).

I think it worked great. It installs and uninstalls mods with a single click. Armaholic and all the other sites already hosts the addons so it must be relatively easy to do this no?

Anyone else tested NMM and know what i mean? BIS would make it of course (hopefully). :)

EDIT: Its not automatic, but its damn easy.

EDIT2: Clarifying:

- Links to addons on for eg. Armaholic say: "Download mod with ARMA Mod Manager".

- Click the link and the ARMA Mod Manager starts on your PC, downloads & installs the mod.

- Your option now is to activate the mod or leave deactivated.

- Start game.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Alex72

[nikeleye 10]

<snip>

So exactly what Six Updater does, but on a much simpler basis?

Doesn't solve the issue that's under discussion, that joining a MP server in ArmA is a pain in the rear because of the varying mods used. What's being seeked is some solution that simplifies the process of starting ArmA (or a launcher), selecting a server you want to join, downloading the mods required automatically (or very easily) and then playing on the server with just the correct mods selected.

[polar bear 10]

Gnat;2168286']So youre really only talking about half the players who ONLY play on Servers/play MP

What about the other half of the community that plays stuff that pulls a small sample of the multitude of amazing mods & addons together to make brilliant Dynamic SP Campaignes / or great single mission ?

If you install someone else's custom mission it should be the same experience as connecting to a public server. You get the mods you need. You don't even necessarily know that you got them. It just happens. That's because the package you got from the creator would include a definition of the mission specifying the mods and where they should be downloaded from. Could work EXACTLY the same as if you connect to a public server. Some sort of mission definition file that tells you what you need, and ArmA just sorts it out.

Could work along with DMarkwick's idea that the game is a launcher. You download a mission config file, click on it, the launcher reads it, loads the right components, and you're playing.

The only people who should have to worry about this stuff are the people who are creating those missions. For those people, ArmA should provide a tool that helps them package up their work, creating the definition that specifies what mods are needed that they then share with others.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Polar Bear

[ProfTournesol 956]

If you install someone else's custom mission it should be the same experience as connecting to a public server. You get the mods you need. You don't even necessarily know that you got them. It just happens. That's because the package you got from the creator would include a definition of the mission specifying the mods and where they should be downloaded from. Could work EXACTLY the same as if you connect to a public server.

The only people who should have to worry about this stuff are the people who are creating those missions. For those people, ArmA should provide a tool that helps them package up their work, creating the definition that specifies what mods are needed.

No, no and no. I don't want addons being installed without knowing it, in SP at least.

[polar bear 10]

No, no and no. I don't want addons being installed without knowing it, in SP at least.

Fine, and a reasonable point--so than have a splash screen that pops up when you click the mission config telling you what it's about to install. It could list off the required and optional content and tell you what you already had downloaded, and what it would download for you. You could then select the optional content you want, click next, wait for the required downloads, and play. Easy.

More advanced/savvy users could always edit that mission config file and do whatever they like, so there's no real limitation here, but it makes the ordinary thing easy.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Polar Bear

[Alex72 1]

So exactly what Six Updater does, but on a much simpler basis?

Doesn't solve the issue that's under discussion, that joining a MP server in ArmA is a pain in the rear because of the varying mods used. What's being seeked is some solution that simplifies the process of starting ArmA (or a launcher), selecting a server you want to join, downloading the mods required automatically (or very easily) and then playing on the server with just the correct mods selected.

Thats true. I did forget to mention that in game ARMA3 should/could (dont know how they made it now) be much clearer on what addons are used, especially for new players, and maybe point them to where they can be downloaded. And from there use the one click = download & install function of said type of program. As i mentioned though its not automatic, but its very easy. And very easy seems pretty good. At least to me.

[sickboy 13]

Indeed sounds like a small part that Six Updater has to offer.

Re simple and easy, the latest addition "Six Launcher" should come a lot closer, with the next-gen SU also on the horizon with similar simplicity.

(Click and download/install a single mod is not all there is to mods in arma, especially considering MultiPlayer, different servers, missions and game modes, mod versions and multiple mods, dependencies (mods, game versions etc), and e.g userconfig files, plugins, Teamspeak plugins etc.)

Add some improvements to the game re mod management, handling, loading etc, and we're about there :)

Could work along with DMarkwick's idea that the game is a launcher. You download a mission config file, click on it, the launcher reads it, loads the right components, and you're playing.

The only people who should have to worry about this stuff are the people who are creating those missions. For those people, ArmA should provide a tool that helps them package up their work, creating the definition that specifies what mods are needed that they then share with others.

Interesting idea, was thinking about similar approach for Mods - specifying their dependencies/requirements etc.

For mods it could be an extension to mod.cpp. For missions a database of CfgPatches -> Addon / Mod mappings could go a long way, but perhaps specifying dependencies/requirements more specifically in a configuration file could work too.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Sickboy

[Alex72 1]

Re simple and easy, the latest addition "Six Launcher" should come a lot closer, with the next-gen SU also on the horizon with similar simplicity.

And i appreciate that SB. Six Updater is great, but i was more thinking of the whole new ARMA player base that dont know about it, and those that never visit us (always a bunch that skip forums). Something that comes out of the box. If BIS let you add your next gen SU - great. I have no idea what the solution they talked about look like maybe its a similar thing(?).

[Nicholas 5]

I think it would be great if they added a mod manager. One that would be simple to use, not over-complicated, and match the ArmA UI.

[waxman 5]

And i appreciate that SB. Six Updater is great, but i was more thinking of the whole new ARMA player base that dont know about it, and those that never visit us (always a bunch that skip forums). Something that comes out of the box. If BIS let you add your next gen SU - great. I have no idea what the solution they talked about look like maybe its a similar thing(?).

Would be great to have both a simple click there to play this server / mission from within a BIS launcher but also allow the extended options that this may provide to be accessed from 3rd party apps like six updater that then provide a much more granular and user configurable / controllable mod management.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

I really feel like A3 is getting the focus it needs this time. The important issues are being worked on, and multiplayer is definitely getting a larger amount of attention. The great multiplayer experience was always there, just locked away from us through low player numbers, lag (in all its forms), and a lot of new user unfriendlyness. Something about the previews just makes A3 look so much more crisp than A2 as well. The multiplayer will drive the arma series to a new level of popularity while still keeping the milsim orientation. Hell, this game, if it performs well enough, could bring milsim itself into wide spread popularity.

[hoak 0]

I'd like to vet the suggestion for an integrated, in-line game patcher mod updater as well; this is not difficult to execute in code, has proven itself very cost effective for the Developer/Publisher many times over, and has many features and benefits for all parties concerned --

For Fans: a seamless experience to the server and game type/mod you want to play, when you want to play it, that keeps more people playing rather than managing their game files, Mod file formats can integrate standardized and detailed Mod descriptions for Fans to read while they're downloading and installing so they know exactly what they're getting into before the fact, multiple costly points of failure and wasted time are completely removed from the mod/patch -- update/download, install and file support chain.

Mod Developers: standardized unified distribution of Mods will reduce conflicts and issues so less time is wasted on support and more time can be spent on development and Fans appreciating your work, complex multi-mod distributions become seamless packages that reconcile all differences and rights -- and the work only has to be done once, updating your mod is as easy as putting the update on one server.

For BI: reduces the patch support workload across different distributions of the game; adds an additional level of security and cheat protection (also a benefit to Fans and Mod Talent), can integrate automatic/configurable FTP and torrent support reducing file support infrastructure costs and time managing file distribution (there are FOSS libraries that do all the heavy lifting for this already available).

As has been pointed out already, this has been done on tens of thousands of games successfully, and it works very well. Virtually every game of the 'MMOFPS' genre uses integrated updater/patchers and some support Mods; most have integrated torrent and FTP support greatly reducing file infrastructure costs and transport load...

While 3rd Party applications have supported ArmA II very well, there are still limitations; there is not a single qualified source (BI) so there's inevitable competition, mods get excluded, there are support lapses, and they are not server authoritative based -- so are usually are limited in how they serve files to a particular Mod per-configuration rather than what's on a specific server.

An in-line server auth updater would be an enormous boon to all concerned; the BI games have a gigantic library of Mods -- many epic labors of love that have gone virtually unrecognized and unplayed; the scope, scale and sheer volume of Mod content for ArmA II alone rivals entire game genres; which is impossible for anyone to navigate and explore fully... With an in-line patch/mod system every server, listen or dedicated, can become an access point to discovery.

:)

Edited June 15, 2012 by Hoak

[jonneymendoza 10]

For clarification, this discussion is about mod downloading from a separate file server, NOT the actual game server.

Guys,

Arma 3 is still a long way off but I'd like to share an idea that has been bounded around alot & has even been requested in Arma 2. I believe the single main issue with regards to the Arma games becoming as popular as they should be and deserve to be is that new users don't know how to..

1. Find mods

2. Download & Install them correctly (not easy for a beginner!)

3. Keep a mod up to date.

4. Work out which mod is missing or which mod they hav loaded that the server doesn't allow.

Right now the situation in Arma 2 is terrible, for a game that claims to be all about the modding community it is very very difficult for a new player to work out what to do, usually your effort is rewarded with being kicked from server with no warning message or one that means nothing to the average gamer. This means they either give up and play something else or they end up on a vanilla server without ever experiencing the amazing mods out there.

It's not impossible to implement this, other games have succeeded, half life 2 for example. What ever mod you require but don't hav installed is downloaded within the game before you join. This method ensures everybody has the latest version of the mod and it is installed correctly for you.

I realise there may be some issues with this for Arma 3, alot of arma mods are quite big so it would take a while to download. You would also require a decent few few servers to host the mods but surely BI have enough $ now to afford some good file servers?

BI please implement this, the confusing and convoluted approach to mods currently is not acceptable for the new playerbase you will pull in with the mighty Arma 3. Implement mod filtering within server browser so you can easily find no mod servers if you don't want to wait. Also once server is selected, allow player to choose which mods to activate before joining is initiated.

I dream of the day when servers are all full, with mods running and nobody being kicked because of mod issues :)

Rory

Steamworks is the best solution mate

[sickboy 13]

Steamworks is the best solution mate

I would claim otherwise .. :P

[Timnos 1]

Six Updater FTW.

[jonneymendoza 10]

I would claim otherwise .. :P

or six updater :)

i personally dont know how this thread is 32 pages long when one or two posts would have answered the op's question lol

[hoak 0]

Any external 3rd party application is always going to have limitations of: support, competition, who and what it serves... The Six Updater is a case in point, while it's a handsome piece of 'must have' software for ArmA II that continues to serve the game -- it has a rather complex interface for even the typical ArmA II Fan, only serves a fraction of a percent of mods available for ArmA II, can not in real-time transparently detect the server a Player is trying to connect to, determine files absent his system, find fastest sources and update his system to make the Player connectible to that server.

An integrated in-line updater can do all these things, completely transparent to the User, removing all the myriad of issues and limitations that not only are part and parcel of ArmA II's multi-distro patch system, but the removes all limitations of manually downloading and installing or using an external file-updater to get mods. If BI were to include Six Updater with ArmA III it would go a long way to solving a many of these issues, as it would at least standardize distribution and updating; but even that does not solve all the problems that confront updating and distribution that integration of an in-line service can with real-time detection of what's needed, and automatic multi-route file get via FTP, HTTP, and torrent.

:kungfu:

Edited June 15, 2012 by Hoak

[gossamersolid 155]

an external application can work if it's included with the game and is FORCED to be used for any MP server joining. Seriously if BIS can't implement this stuff ingame, then MP joining should be handled outside of the game itself and in this external application.

[hoak 0]

an external application can work if it's included with the game and is FORCED to be used for any MP server joining. Seriously if BIS can't implement this stuff ingame, then MP joining should be handled outside of the game itself and in this external application.

Sure as I pointed out running as a separate application that integrates a server browser can do it all -- but there's really no reason to go half way and suffer all the issues of multiple applications running (game, BattleEye, Steam, Steam libraries, and launcher/updater/browser) when this can all be integrated into the game directly for greater efficiency and efficacy.

In fact tighter integration between the game's server browser, cheat protection, and the game/mod updater can improve the performance and efficacy of each for a better game experience overall. A lot of the heavy lifting has already been done BI just needs to flip the switch and decide to make it so...

:kungfu:

[polar bear 10]

I cannot see how it requires much change in the game. It would require change in the server browser, putting an extra screen between clicking on a server and connecting, where the mods get sorted out.

It might require a bigger change in attitude about how important these usability issues are to having a successful product.

[hoak 0]

I cannot see how it requires much change in the game. It would require change in the server browser, putting an extra screen between clicking on a server and connecting, where the mods get sorted out.

You are correct, this is not a substantial code commitment in any way shape or form, we're discussing game technology that's been in games for over a decade, and again, there are libraries (both FOSS and retail) as well as entire finished product/services that do all the heavy lifting requiring almost no work...

It might require a bigger change in attitude about how important these usability issues are to having a successful product.

Well said. Hopefully the success of DayZ with the traction and support it gets by virtue of being an inside-mod, clues BI in to how much more successful other mods that similarly can get more traction cab be, and the attention and success they can bring the ArmA games.

:kungfu:

[sickboy 13]

The Six Updater is a case in point, while it's a handsome piece of 'must have' software for ArmA II that continues to serve the game -- it has a rather complex interface for even the typical ArmA II Fan

The recently introduced Six Launcher should already settle much of the usability/ui/complexity issues etc. While we're currently working on the next-gen SU which will leverage similar simplicty.

can not in real-time transparently detect the server a Player is trying to connect to, determine files absent his system

Looking into that, it doesn't require inline, rather just API etc.

only serves a fraction of a percent of mods available for ArmA II

Most of the popular mods are on there, people can request more, but also in the near future mod authors will be able to add and manage their own content.

and automatic multi-route file get via FTP, HTTP, and torrent.:kungfu:

FTP and Torrent do not support incremental updates like Six Updater does, SU is only downloading changes bits of files through delta patching :)

Hosting mirrors (bandwidth/storage), managing mirrors, keeping data synced etc is not a small job either. SU has a strong world wide mirror network that's still growing with demand.

[hoak 0]

Most of the popular mods are on there, people can request more, but also in the near future mod authors will be able to add and manage their own content.

There are so many high quality ArmA II mods lost in the epic uncatalogued library of ArmA II labors of love that 'popularity' can be down to the fickle finger of fate making 'popularity', 'success', or even just visiblity largely a matter of luck as things are.

Granted sites like Armaholic have done a fantastic job of organizing as much as they can; and you can find a lot if you know what to search for; but there's no ISBN of ArmA mods, no heuristic system of classification; and finding out what may be on a particular server is at the very best an absurdly tedious experience, and more typically completely discouraging -- consigning many hundreds of thousands of man hours of work to obscurity that might be popularly enjoyed if it could be discovered and easily installed.

FTP and Torrent do not support incremental updates like Six Updater does, SU is only downloading changes bits of files through delta patching...

While that is correct with respect to protocols standards; it is not strictly true or entirely correct; again there are many libraries, products and services that can use all protocols: FTP, HTTP, HTTPS and BitTorrent -- Pando is just one of dozes of commercial examples that can do all the aforementioned and more...

Hosting mirrors (bandwidth/storage), managing mirrors, keeping data synced etc is not a small job either. SU has a strong world wide mirror network that's still growing with demand.

Exactly, as I pointed out in an earlier post; and this is where it can be very valuable for the updater to employ multiple protocols -- where game server, and even connected clients can optionally perform as file host; and, again optionally also automatically upload mod content to file hosting servers and services during quiescent periods. All this has already been done for many games...

Personally I feel ArmA III could be well served by Six Updater, but again as I pointed out earlier, only if it's included with the game, or even better integrated for in-line automation to standardize all mod packaging and distribution methods...

:kungfu:

Edited June 18, 2012 by Hoak

[sickboy 13]

Thanks

While that is correct with respect to protocols standards, it is not strictly true or entirely correct; again there are many libraries that can use all protocols: FTP, HTTP, HTTPS and BitTorrent.

I don't read anything about incremental updates (talking about just changed bits within a file, not by-file or gradual download / resume / blocks). FTP is out of the question for it (AFAIK), Bittorrent is as well.

Bittorrent is also problematic due to possibility of peer polution, security etc, though it seems there might be some solutions there, we're exploring.

Bittorrent support is on the menu for SU as well, while FTP would be very easy to add.

Still, both are IMO not great solutions.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Sickboy

[batto 17]

Bittorrent is also problematic due to possibility of peer polution, security etc, though it seems there might be some solutions there, we're exploring.

BitTorrent is more secure than HTTP (assuming you get torrent file securely). Torrent files contain checksums for every chunk of data.