ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[chortles 263]

It was never my intention to insult him as a person.

Frankly speaking... I don't believe this.

The problem is that it's not "just Arma 3". It especially won't be "just Arma 3" if people don't stand against this crap. If people say "oh, you won't be able to play Arma 3 offline, but you can play other games, so it's fine", it will eventually lead to almost all games except indies being bundled with Steamworks. I want to be able to play all of my games at any time for the rest of my life. If I lose a disc, it's my fault and I accept it. If Steam shuts down for whatever reason, I lose a huge number of games and it's not my fault at all.

... bluntly speaking, do you two really believe that Arma 3 matters (without its ties to DayZ) enough to make a difference in whether or not "almost all games except indies become Steamworks"? You overestimate Arma 3 and BI.

You pay for convenience, and believe it or not, in ArmA's case Steam is exactly that.

Funny thing is, I think some of the complainers have complained that that convenience is for the devs... and the devblog more or less said outright "yeah the convenience was part of why we chose Steam."

[Steiner34 12]

I get you, but the economic circumstances and advances in tech force the path of least resistance at the moment and the trend will continue.

I'd rather have Steam, than update vanilla for the 4th time and get the same Error after 40 minutes of patching per try.

You pay for convenience, and believe it or not, in ArmA's case Steam is exactly that.

Thats exactly what I'm afraid about. In the end every single PC game will be hosted over those companys like Steam which will create a very big monopoly and in the end they will continue dictating us the customers the rules. Dont you think we the customers should be in charge in the end to guarantee the best possible quality?

[chortles 263]

That's the thing -- it's happening irrespective of whatever decisions you make about Arma 3, both to Arma 3 (it seems clear that this was decided on long ago enough that they've made actual progress on this implementation before announcing it -- so there's no way that I think that Maruk won't have expected these reactions) and to the gaming world in general.

[andreas1183 10]

BI would just patch steam out of Arma 3 if steam gets down.

You know BI aren't like the other companies, they still support they old games, so it's stupid to be afraid of steam getting closed, and also if it really happens, im pretty sure crackers would crack as many games as they can to keep gaming going on pc.

I really diden't know that PC games where so kidie to knew things. Steam is also the reason companies still makes games to PC and steam also have mods support and all that, it's not like they're EA or something.

[Maio 293]

. If I lose a disc, it's my fault and I accept it. If Steam shuts down for whatever reason, I lose a huge number of games and it's not my fault at all.

So, to save myself from future disappointment (and because I'm a strong believer in capitalism and voting with your wallet), I will not purchase games which are bundled with Steamworks.

Didn't Valve once say that if such a situation arises, they would remove their DRM through a patch?

[maddogx 13]

BI would just patch steam out of Arma 3 if steam gets down.

^^ Win.

I was about to post something similar.

Didn't Valve once say that if such a situation arises, they would remove their DRM through a patch?

^^ Also, this.

[maturin 12]

Amid all the ideology I'm sure fills this thread, I'd like to point out that BI loses a substantial cut of Steam sales. If they wanted to maximize their sales profits, they would be pushing Sprocket.

That said, it irritates me considerably that I have to run Steam (even offline mode) in order to run ArmA 3. I HAPPILY bought ArmA 2 with Steam, and even more happily run it with SixUpdater, never launching Steam for that purpose.

Because when it comes to signing in without internet access, Steam is wretchedly unreliable. I'm usually locked out of playing Steam games when there's no internet.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Dont you think we the customers should be in charge in the end to guarantee the best possible quality?

Who are you, exactly? You're not a customer of the companies that went Digital-only - that's for sure. A company may offer a product with specific "features", you can either buy it, or ignore it.

Either way nobody owes you anything, and if similar decisions by this hypothetical company are going to be its downfall - then that's the company's business & responsibility alone.

[sapped 10]

Then apparently something huge has been screwed up with that specific game. Having purchased several games on disc and then installed/activated them through Steam (L4D 1+2, AvP etc.), I can say with absolute conviction that redownloading an entire game after installation on Steam is not the norm. The negative example you have brought up is an exception.

To claim that the same thing must necessarily also happen with Arma3 is ludicrous and smacks of FUD.

I never claimed the exact same thing will happen to ArmA 3, no idea where you got that from, just an example of how steam can really frack things up for people.

Plenty of other similar examples out there if you actually bother doing some search or even read steam tech support forum. This DOES NOT make an example an

exception.

And also, just because everything worked perfectly for you does not mean it is so for everyone else, it also does not make you the majority and everyone else the exception.

If you enjoy the steam version then get the bloody steam version! We couldn't really couldn't give a frack about it. But we do protest against it if it's forced upon the rest of

the community including those who absolutely hates it. If you can't understand this simple logic, then don't even reply back, hate repeating such simple facts to steam fanboys.

There is absolutely nothing FUD about it when we all know that the community will be negatively impacted by this.

[chortles 263]

Amid all the ideology I'm sure fills this thread, I'd like to point out that BI loses a substantial cut of Steam sales. If they wanted to maximize their sales profits, they would be pushing Sprocket.

If you are correct, then this hints at the thinking in BI around the end of 2012 having become "there are no good options left, only least bad ones"...

[Steiner34 12]

^^ Win.

I was about to post something similar.

^^ Also, this.

The question remains can they even do that or are there maybe paragraphs inside the contract between BI and Valve which forbids that?

[Maio 293]

Amid all the ideology I'm sure fills this thread, I'd like to point out that BI loses a substantial cut of Steam sales. If they wanted to maximize their sales profits, they would be pushing Sprocket.

Which brings us to the following question:

How can ArmA 3 be steam exclusive , if BI plans to release physical copies as well. Will BI also sell through their store and then we will have to activate the game through Steam?

I would be Ok with this solutions , as I was planing to buy A3 through Sprocket anyway...

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Which brings us to the following question:

How can ArmA 3 be steam exclusive , if BI plans to release physical copies as well. Will BI also sell through their store and then we will have to activate the game through Steam?

Possibly yes, a lot of games nowadays come with the box, manuals, artbooks... and no DVD - only a CD-KEY for Steam, Origin et cetera. :cc:

[chortles 263]

The physical copies would either by "a Steam key in a box" (seriously) or "a Steam key in a box with an installer DVD" -- it sounds like you have to activate through Steam no matter what.

There is absolutely nothing FUD about it when we all know that the community will be negatively impacted by this.

And here's your problem... you're thinking of a singular, monolithic Arma community which doesn't exist.

[maddogx 13]

I never claimed the exact same thing will happen to ArmA 3, no idea where you got that from, just an example of how steam can really frack things up for people.

Plenty of other similar examples out there if you actually bother doing some search or even read steam tech support forum. This DOES NOT make an example an

exception.

Your post was worded in such a way to give exactly that impression, whether it was intentional or not. (Case in point: "If your internet is any good it will

prob take a few days to a week. And if it's bad, I can just imagine how pissed ur gonna get waiting for months just to download a patch

to play a game you bought from store.")

And also, just because everything worked perfectly for you does not mean it is so for everyone else, it also does not make you the majority and everyone else the exception.

If you enjoy the steam version then get the bloody steam version! We couldn't really couldn't give a frack about it. But we do protest against it if it's forced upon the rest of

the community including those who absolutely hates it. If you can't understand this simple logic, then don't even reply back, hate repeating such simple facts to steam fanboys.

So anyone who disagrees with your aversion to Steam is a "Steam fanboy"? Sure. :rolleyes:

There is absolutely nothing FUD about it when we all know that the community will be negatively impacted by this.

You know nothing of the sort. You are making predictions based on worst-case-scenarios of what might happen if everything that can possibly go wrong, does. This is called FUD.

[andreas1183 10]

I never claimed the exact same thing will happen to ArmA 3, no idea where you got that from, just an example of how steam can really frack things up for people.

Plenty of other similar examples out there if you actually bother doing some search or even read steam tech support forum. This DOES NOT make an example an

exception.

And also, just because everything worked perfectly for you does not mean it is so for everyone else, it also does not make you the majority and everyone else the exception.

If you enjoy the steam version then get the bloody steam version! We couldn't really couldn't give a frack about it. But we do protest against it if it's forced upon the rest of

the community including those who absolutely hates it. If you can't understand this simple logic, then don't even reply back, hate repeating such simple facts to steam fanboys.

There is absolutely nothing FUD about it when we all know that the community will be negatively impacted by this.

You're also forced to use GameSpy, and a bad CD key thing to play it on steam, that is much worse.

Steam are just like PSN is for PS3 and Xbox Live is for Xbox, do you wan't to play on an Xbox where in every game you will need to create an account, and then get your friends name in the game and invite all your friends again in the game you just brought in every game you get? And if you don't like steam, well then i'm pretty sure the game companies don't want you to get their game. They don't want to waste all their time making an DRM and an Online system just for an PC game.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

If you are correct, then this hints at the thinking in BI around the end of 2012 having become "there are no good options left, only least bad ones"...

Depends, really. I think more influential developers can cut a more lucrative deal with Steam and split 20/80. :cc:

[Steiner34 12]

Who are you, exactly? You're not a customer of the companies that went Digital-only - that's for sure. A company may offer a product with specific "features", you can either buy it, or ignore it.

Yes I'm a customer of those digital only companies like Steam.For example I have running the Total War Series over it unforunately.In the case of Arma 2 I bought ArmA 2 and Arrowhead as retailversion while I downloaded all the DLC's from sprocket and I was quite satisfied with this way

Either way nobody owes you anything, and if similar decisions by this hypothetical company are going to be its downfall - then that's the company's business & responsibility alone.

Of course its not my buisness if this company goes down but I have spent a lot of money on that licenses to play the games on their platform and if it goes down I loose the power to play and in fact my hard earned money.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

And here's your problem... you're thinking of a singular, monolithic Arma community which doesn't exist.

Funny thing that. I'd imagine Steam's out of game friends & server lists, chat functions, achievements etc would strengthen and enlarge the community. Knowledgeable people will be in demand, as newcomers come streaming in.

[chortles 263]

Honestly, Steiner34? If there are in fact "enough" good non-Steamworks out there... you're gonna be okay. :D

And if you don't like steam, well then i'm pretty sure the game companies don't want you to get their game. They don't want to waste all their time making an DRM and an Online system just for an PC game.

The funny part is that I think the Arma 3 project lead more or less alluded/said this. :p

Depends, really. I think more influential developers can cut a more lucrative deal with Steam and split 20/80. :cc:

Somehow I think Rocket saying in his most recent devblog video "dayz money lambo fleet" is telling about what 'influence' Valve is looking at... ;)

Funny thing that. I'd imagine Steam's out of game friends & server lists, chat functions, achievements etc would strengthen and enlarge the community. Knowledgeable people will be in demand, as newcomers come streaming in.

I just had a hilarious mental image of "What if Arma 3 had had a Xbox 360 release..."

1000 G: Press the Start Button, Then Actually Play Arma 3!

Hey, The Simpsons got away with mocking it for their XB360 game (albeit only 5 GamerScore) so why can't BI mock it even harder? :D

Seriously though, that little "poke" about BI "even" invited people to fill out that survey about online functionality... I'd be surprised if any of the "no social services, why are you even asking us this stuff, go work on AI!" respondents even really were on board with BI's own vision of Arma 3 from the beginning, especially when (particularly soon after Gamescom) it became clear to me that there was a rather specific design vision in mind that was so, SO divergent from past Arma games. When Atomic PC (Australia) was saying that Arma 3's infantry weapon handling had become more like that of a conventional twitch shooter, they should have realized... :p

The "friends list"/"server list" implementation is interesting, especially since we know that Rocket and Valve have been working hand-in-hand on the subject as far as servers... and the timetable given by the project lead seems to make it clear that this has been in progress for some time and is NOT a sudden turnaround (i.e. caused by the news about Gamespy).

Edited February 22, 2013 by Chortles

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Yes I'm a customer of those digital only companies like Steam.For example I have running the Total War Series over it unforunately.

Erm... enjoy the game then?

Of course its not my buisness if this company goes down but I have spent a lot of money on that licenses to play the games on their platform and if it goes down I loose the power to play and in fact my hard earned money.

You people praise voting with your wallet, while forgetting that Steam is a multi-billion (or at least in the hundreds of millions of USDs) business and is not immune to lawsuits in the extreme cases, in the EU at least.

They're not operating on thin air, please don't project your insecurities of whatever corrupt governments you may have in your home countries onto private businesses. :cc:

[Maio 293]

The physical copies would either by "a Steam key in a box" (seriously) or "a Steam key in a box with an installer DVD" -- it sounds like you have to activate through Steam no matter what

I, it's just that I'd prefer to buy it through the BIStore so BI can get a bigger chunk of the cheese.

Quote Originally Posted by sapped:

There is absolutely nothing FUD about it when we all know that the community will be negatively impacted by this.

And here's your problem... you're thinking of a singular, monolithic Arma community which doesn't exist.

Yup...

[zoog 18]

Which brings us to the following question:

How can ArmA 3 be steam exclusive , if BI plans to release physical copies as well. Will BI also sell through their store and then we will have to activate the game through Steam?

I would be Ok with this solutions , as I was planing to buy A3 through Sprocket anyway...

This has been answered in the blog update....

Will I be able to buy a boxed copy of Arma 3?

There will be boxed copies in most regions. These may either be Steam Codes in a retail package, or also contain DVD data (speeding up installation). You will still have to run and update through Steam the first time.

Steam exclusivity does not mean steam store exclusivity. Steam is required to play the game, regardless of where and what type of version (digital or boxed) you've bought. The title of the blog update is a bit misleading. Should be something like "Steam(works) mandatory/required for Arma 3"

Edited February 22, 2013 by zoog

[maddogx 13]

I, it's just that I'd prefer to buy it through the BIStore so BI can get a bigger chunk of the cheese.

Same here. And BI already sells Steam versions of several games on the BI store, so this is certainly a possibility. ;)

[Steiner34 12]

Erm... enjoy the game then?

I do but in the end there is always this bitter taste in the background that I as the customer are the mercy of this valve company and their rules....

You people praise voting with your wallet, while forgetting that Steam is a multi-billion (or at least in the hundreds of millions of USDs) business and is not immune to lawsuits in the extreme cases, in the EU at least.

They're not operating on thin air, please don't project your insecurities of whatever corrupt governments you may have in your home countries onto private businesses. :cc:

Well voting with the wallet is the only way the customers can dictate their wishes to the company. Otherwise it goes the other way around and we know what happens then. Lets quote Thomas Jefferson for that matter.

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."

or in this case

"When the people fear the companies there is tyranny. When the companies fears the people there is liberty."