A few real life combat questions

[bwc153 10]

Is it supposed to be humor pointing towards ARMA 2 and the fact that 7.62 typically kills in 1 shot in comparison to 5.56's 2? Because that is the only way that really makes sense as a joke (which I understood (I think), but it wasn't exactly funny)

[maturin 12]

It refers to all the boring ink that has been spilled over stopping power at range in Afghanistan and hydrostatic shock and yawing and big hole theory and all that other bullshit that is precisely why it's not funny.

[SteveJA 12]

Fuck me, picking apart jokes, haven't you got something better to do?

[Rich_R 1087]

To go back to the original question, just finished reading 'Lone Survivor' the 2008 book written by Marcus Luttrell which recounts the Navy SEAL being the only survivor of an insertion mission in Afghanistan;

The SEALS took eight mags each......but you could tell by the end of the first major battle they wisehed they had more.

Now their mission was behind enemy lines and they travelled on foot once inserted so wieght obviously came into play for what they took.

[Beagle 684]

It depends on the mission...go there and killem all is no mission target that is usually issued. A recon unit should be good with 200 rounds for each men. May I remind that fullfilling a mission does not involve killing all opponets that are encountered...thats a pure game problem.

When defending a stationar object there should be plenty of ammo available to refill, and it wil hardly ever be that way thet someone is shooting a assault rifle continously for hours.

As far as I remember real combat missions are rarely all action packed and lasting for hours....especially ambushes are more like a avalanche...lots of action for a quarter hour in a 12 hour duty tour.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Beagle

[bwc153 10]

As far as I remember real combat missiions are rarely all action packen and lasting for hours....

99% of war is killing time, the other 1% of war is Killing Time.

[Archosaurusrev 12]

I am by no means in the military, but, when I go AirSofting, I put 3 shiny and reflective to light BB's in my gun. They are black or red. Seeing as they're reflective to light, they shine so it's pretty much a tracer round.

So to answer the counting problem, either see through mags or tracers.

[Muahaha 10]

Talking bout real combat, how high or far away actually does a combat pilot engage or stay away from an enemy armor or plane? The picture painted in Arma2 is too close and personal which many times causes the plane/helo to take fire or crash, which I don't think real life military practices.

[Beagle 684]

Talking bout real combat, how high or far away actually does a combat pilot engage or stay away from an enemy armor or plane? The picture painted in Arma2 is too close and personal which many times causes the plane/helo to take fire or crash, which I don't think real life military practices.

In 21st century there are standoff weapons. No need to get in AA range and as long as Medium range SAM is still present there won't be helicopters around.

There is simply no need to be closer as 4km to a target to take it out since a few shells of 23mm or a sigle mandpads woukld take YOU out. The super strong high hotpoint helicopters in ArmA tech to use the plain wrogn tactic just because it works. FFARS are used at 2km range in a hover, not in a flyover at 300m like in ArmA. A rel Helo pilot wil always stay out of fire...a Helicopter is a delicate mashinery with many parts that may fail...but not in ArmA so there is no need to care about real life tactics in ArmA...its a game.

You can repawn and effectively attack MBTs with RPG from front and you can eat stingers in a Su-25 as if it was nothing, a AH-64 will survive a number of RPG hits that are lethal to a T-72...no more questions.

Just forget about ArmA and ral life tactics...there is no need for it. kamikaze always wins especially in MP environment.

It's a war action game, not a war simulator.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Beagle

[-Paladin- 10]

In 21st century there are standoff weapons. No need to get in AA range and as long as Medium range SAM is still present there won't be helicopters around.

There is simply no need to be closer as 4km to a target to take it out since a few shells of 23mm or a sigle mandpads woukld take YOU out. The super strong high hotpoint helicopters in ArmA tech to use the plain wrogn tactic just because it works. FFARS are used at 2km range in a hover, not in a flyover at 300m like in ArmA. A rel Helo pilot wil always stay out of fire...a Helicopter is a delicate mashinery with many parts that may fail...but not in ArmA so there is no need to care about real life tactics in ArmA...its a game.

You can repawn and effectively attack MBTs with RPG from front and you can eat stingers in a Su-25 as if it was nothing, a AH-64 will survive a number of RPG hits that are lethal to a T-72...no more questions.

Just forget about ArmA and ral life tactics...there is no need for it. kamikaze always wins especially in MP environment.

It's a war action game, not a war simulator.

hä strange on my retail disc stands unltimate miltary simulation, must be a typo xD

[Beagle 684]

hä strange on my retail disc stands unltimate miltary simulation, must be a typo xD

Advertising! Do you really believe in advertising? Just beause a game CAN be played like a Simulation does not mean it will be played as such. Just look at how Multiplayer is played, it's an action shooter. Edited April 22, 2011 by Beagle

[Muahaha 10]

Thanks for the info Beagle, wasn't expecting this game to be real life equivalent, but surely does wish it resemble more especially in terms of tactics.

[Beagle 684]

Thanks for the info Beagle, wasn't expecting this game to be real life equivalent, but surely does wish it resemble more especially in terms of tactics.

Real life tactics ofte don't make mucgh sense in games where you can spawn as a AT-Sniper one man army and buy A.I: soldiers at a town depot, and the figting is beetween you and two other guys trying to get all spawnpoints and annihilating whole tanks platoons on the run from one camp to another.

Multiplayer is the worst example that shows very significantly where the weaknesses are.

Playing a mission with group respawn only, no teleporting, limited supply, and first aid module might be simulation, but this happens rarely and can onyl be done with some friends on a custom map...not in the big MP arena.

[Inkompetent 0]

Playing a mission with group respawn only, no teleporting, limited supply, and first aid module might be simulation, but this happens rarely and can onyl be done with some friends on a custom map...not in the big MP arena.

Playing it like that is what communities like United Operations is there for!

[maturin 12]

In 21st century there are standoff weapons. No need to get in AA range and as long as Medium range SAM is still present there won't be helicopters around.

There is simply no need to be closer as 4km to a target to take it out since a few shells of 23mm or a sigle mandpads woukld take YOU out. The super strong high hotpoint helicopters in ArmA tech to use the plain wrogn tactic just because it works. FFARS are used at 2km range in a hover, not in a flyover at 300m like in ArmA. A rel Helo pilot wil always stay out of fire...a Helicopter is a delicate mashinery with many parts that may fail...but not in ArmA so there is no need to care about real life tactics in ArmA...its a game.

You can repawn and effectively attack MBTs with RPG from front and you can eat stingers in a Su-25 as if it was nothing, a AH-64 will survive a number of RPG hits that are lethal to a T-72...no more questions.

Just forget about ArmA and ral life tactics...there is no need for it. kamikaze always wins especially in MP environment.

It's a war action game, not a war simulator.

The mods you love to sneer at fix everything on that list.

Since you brought up advertising, you presumably have a suitably jaundiced view of the videogame business, so you know that BIS isn't going to revolutionize the series in a beta patch. Install some mods or just... quit complaining, because there's really no point.

Or spam the bugtracker. That does have a point.

[Beagle 684]

The mods you love to sneer at fix everything on that list.

Since you brought up advertising, you presumably have a suitably jaundiced view of the videogame business, so you know that BIS isn't going to revolutionize the series in a beta patch. Install some mods or just... quit complaining, because there's really no point.

Or spam the bugtracker. That does have a point.

It's about Players and Public gaming...the geeks made even such simulatins as the DCS series look like arcade games by behaving arcade like. Simulation experience is in SP or behind closed doors, and that's possible without the "mod" hazzle.

The problem is that Servers are full with missions that mimic CoD gaming.

Fact is: ArmA gaming is usually free of real life combat elements...and "the mod" tends to make the "game" aspect to complicated.

And asI stated before...mods are god for games that are beyond the support phase and don't get updated anymore.

I love the Kobayashi Maru mor for Bridge Commander even if it is a beast to get it runnign and keep it up to date, but I won't look much into ArmA 2 conversion mods as long as there is still BI doing changes to the way the game works.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Beagle

[rhaggan 10]

In reply to the original question.

n Herrick 6 my webbing consisted of a mini-me pouch on one side and one set of ammo pouches on the other for my grenades.

The GPMG guys had their webbing but the pouches were just filled with link so they had more readily available without having to go into their Daysack.

As for the rest of the lads some used webbing but most just stuck to chest rigs etc.

Even carrying the basic kit I.E. Body Armour, Helmet, Weapon (Mini-me), Pistol, 900 link, 2 grenades and enough water to last for a patrol (most of ours were recce in and out type patrols so re-supplies whilst in the green zone weren't practical or needed.) I was easily carrying 60lbs +

I remember reading somewhere that throughout the ages Infantry soldiers have always carried about the same weights, it's just that in these modern times we can carry more kit at the same weight.

Should we try to phase out webbing and move to a more basic chestrig type layout or to something similar to the US style? That's for peopel who get paid more than me, but if we did would we not need to change our SOPs with regards to resup etc or we'd just end up carrying the same amount of stuff just in our daysacks instead of in our webbing.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/weapons-equipment-rations/133200-reality-herrick-you-personal-kit-uk-training-2.html

[Sabot And Heat 10]

The question isnt whether Arma mimics exactly real life. That is a mute point. It never will. No simulator can (or ever will.)

You'll never go prone behind a stone wall in Arma and really feel bugs crawling down your neck.

You'll never have to lift your eyepro and wipe searing sweat from your eyes so you can see.

You'll never remember that one moment where you go from "Wow, I really could be killed" to accepting that your already dead.

If you want real... go join up and fight. There is hardly a spot on the planet without some turmoil.

In the meantime if you want more depth than Call of Duty or Medal of Honor, stick with Arma. If you want to use something the US Army felt was good enough to let soldiers practice a wide variety of tactics in a safe environment, stick with Arma.

It aint perfect but it's light years from any other combat game out. Period. I God Damn Love Arma.

[namaan 10]

The question isnt whether Arma mimics exactly real life. That is a mute point. It never will. No simulator can (or ever will.)

You'll never go prone behind a stone wall in Arma and really feel bugs crawling down your neck.

You'll never have to lift your eyepro and wipe searing sweat from your eyes so you can see.

You'll never remember that one moment where you go from "Wow, I really could be killed" to accepting that your already dead.

If you want real... go join up and fight. There is hardly a spot on the planet without some turmoil.

In the meantime if you want more depth than Call of Duty or Medal of Honor, stick with Arma. If you want to use something the US Army felt was good enough to let soldiers practice a wide variety of tactics in a safe environment, stick with Arma.

It aint perfect but it's light years from any other combat game out. Period. I God Damn Love Arma.

Agreed....

[AThousandD 10]

Hay-men, brar, hay-men!

[Second 0]

The question isnt whether Arma mimics exactly real life. That is a mute point. It never will. No simulator can (or ever will.)

You'll never go prone behind a stone wall in Arma and really feel bugs crawling down your neck.

You'll never have to lift your eyepro and wipe searing sweat from your eyes so you can see.

You'll never remember that one moment where you go from "Wow, I really could be killed" to accepting that your already dead.

If you want real... go join up and fight. There is hardly a spot on the planet without some turmoil.

In the meantime if you want more depth than Call of Duty or Medal of Honor, stick with Arma. If you want to use something the US Army felt was good enough to let soldiers practice a wide variety of tactics in a safe environment, stick with Arma.

It aint perfect but it's light years from any other combat game out. Period. I God Damn Love Arma.

The thing Beagle was after by my understandment is that mission makers doesnt' even try to test the limits. I made my best missions in OFP, by best in this i mean missions which mimiced real deal as closely as OFP could. ArmA2 could go closer in many ways, but the thing is that there rarely are missions which ventures into that terrain. Same reason why CWC is still the best campaign BIS has made, it mimics real military affairs pretty closely. I as freshly out from military felt good with it when i played it first time, i don't recall any single game which would have made me feel that what CWC campaign did.

Same in MP community: Back with OFP there were missions, alot of missions, played in public servers which were setup so that it had realistic structure, objectives, units, equipment, AO etc. By ArmA things got in more mainstream direction... Or should i say that mainstream got into more arcade direction. And seems that i has got even more into arcade direction from what i've read.

As for underlined part: Like one instructor who spent his day evaluating software for training porpuses said that he would accept COD as training tool for infantry troops with few tweaks, mainly by adding instructor kit in it. This doesn't mean that COD "as it is" would be enough, it just means that basic gameplay mechanics are enough close for player to feel immersed to game and offering realistic base with which player would learn more. Training scenarios ofcourse should be made with instructor tools.

As for game which didn't fit in training porpuses (by that same instructor's point of view) was Medal of Honor Airborne. Mainly because of it's cubersome controls. Which forced player to learn to play the game instead of learning to do his infantry-stuff.

[Beagle 684]

Thats right, the pure arcade comes with multiplayer missions that are designed to be less frustrating as lifelike situations would be (for example...you get killed in OA...go there again all the way from HQ) Instead we use spawn at OA for less frustration leading to Players not giving any reason to not die all 2 minutes... no problem you simly resurrect fully equped but with better knowlege...recon by getting killed a dozend times.You also learn that vehicles get picked up every time, even in dese Woods or inside towns...so you turn into a ATGM trowing four man army on a bicycles to defeat armour platoons on the fly and using "fast travel", also know as Star Trek's matter projection transporter technology... you stop musing A.I. because it will get slaughteras anyway by a Player spawning with a load of HEDP Rounds 500m away all 20 seconds etc. anmd you stop using Armoured vehixles because ATGMs can't miss in game and have hyper manouverability...and the best...whenever you play as russian or any other ArmA II unit you turn into a superbright IR candle threefold as bright as a AO unit as soon as the US guy switches on this TWS.

Compared to this issues like beeing able to run forever or no preparation time to fire a manportable ATGM are no problem at all.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Beagle