New target system of the Apache

[SerialMum 10]

Hello,

(Excuse my English)

I want to start a discussion about the new target system of the Apache.

In connection with a little Bug i discovered, i recognised the new targeting with Apache and Hellfires after Patch 1.59. I updated from 1.57, so I do not know if the new targeting came with 1.58 perhaps.

And I can see the approach – the Apache was too powerfull. Ok by me.

It was able to lock People with hellfires, never used it, unrealistic – Change ok by me.

It could lock Enemies, it never saw – Change ok by me.

Particularly it was able to lock Vehicles of unkown side (yellow dot), but the ai gunner shot only at yellow dots, wich are enemies – way to powerful – change ok by me.

But please, why the hell is it now unable to shoot light armor, trucks and vehicles with Hellfire – even if they are in clear site and recognized as enemies?

I think it is the pilots decision, if he wants to use an expensive Weapon to engage these Targets.

And there is a very very bad side effect on this change. Now enemy trucks and cars are always grey dots like already engaged vehicles or empty vehicles. If you really want this unrealistic change – no shooting with hellfires at cars - then you had to invent a new color (light orange perhaps) for the Apaches radar.

Because in a large battle, when all enemy-cars are grey dots, even if they are close and spotted clearly as hostile – you do not recognize them as a thread, especially when in Hellfire-Mode. You only recognize the Danger if you switch to cannon and the ai-gunner shoots the hell around you on grey dots!

I would like to hear other statements about this issue

Cu

SerialMum

[ricnunes 0]

It was able to lock People with hellfires, never used it, unrealistic – Change ok by me.

Honestly I was never able to lock people (soldiers) with Hellfire in ArmA BUT WHY ON HELL can someone SAY THAT LOCKING people with Hellfire IS UNREALISTIC!!

Really if people like to play realistic simulations like ArmA is, they should start to know a little bit more about how REAL weapon systems WORK!

For the MILLION TIME, IN REAL LIFE the Hellfire CAN "LOCK" people as it can lock anything else. The Hellfire follows a laser spot that is aimed by an operator (the gunner of the Apache for example) and it doesn't matter what this laser spot is aimed at - It can be aimed at an aircraft, a rock or a cow for what it matters!

Really people should stop saying that the Hellfire cannot lock this or that - The Hellfire can "lock" everything where that laser is aimed at. PERIOD!

And for what's worth, I was never able to lock infantry soldiers with Hellfires, but we should be able to do it in ArmA! With the Hellfire we should be able to lock infantry or static weapons, period!!

And I think that it was wrong to remove the lock square from infantry soldier when using the cannon, for example.

[SerialMum 10]

Hello,

Honestly I was never able to lock people (soldiers) with Hellfire in ArmA

said, i never used it, read it, but possible - THAT never worked.

And you are totally right! A Laser-Guided-Weapon in real life can target erverything you want.

My point was not the realism of targeting with laser - i am confused with version 1.59 and targeting type of vehicles.

And due to sparse Info in Changes-log, i am still not sure if it is wanted or buggy.

Let me explain: In the game i encountered three total different Issues with Apache and Hellfires since 1.59 - and we speak of clear Sight to Targets.

1) Lockable Targets flicker rapidly between Red and Grey - no possible targeting with TAB. Seems to be a little bug.

2) I can lock all kind of Tanks, but no trucks and cars. I thought this is the new state of 1.59. But funny

3) I can lock everything as in 1.57.

And there has to be a reason, which of the three occurs - and i do not get it

To exclude possible issues, wich are wanted - I first need exactly to know what is targetable and under wich circumstances with Apache and Hellfires in Version 1.59

Now help me...

SerialMum

[-=seany=- 5]

I think the whole guided munitions system in Arma needs a major overhaul. There are many problems with Wire guided, Laser guided weapons etc.

Fair dues to the ACE team, because they had this whole system sewn up. Why cant BIS just copy(or take some "inspiration") from that?

[.kju 3244]

a) suggestion forum

b) CIT

c) has been discussed many times

d) ACE

e) ArmA so far has its focus on infantry

[SerialMum 10]

a) suggestion forum

Perhaps. But before i can suggest anything i need to know what is state in 1.59 and what bug.

b) CIT

Yes, but does that makes sense if not reproducible?

d) ACE

Sure, there are addons out there - you can alter many things. But I was happy with Arma Vanilla. Just 1.59-Apache confuses me...

e) ArmA so far has its focus on infantry

You mean: Do not use Tanks and Helicopters in that game. Can not be.

Edited April 3, 2011 by SerialMum

[ricnunes 0]

2) I can lock all kind of Tanks, but no trucks and cars. I thought this is the new state of 1.59. But funny

I think I may misunderstood some parts of your original post, sorry for that!

Those issues that you mentioned (and I quoted) are really wierd, since for example: yesterday I played a lot with the Apache (BAF version, BTW) in a co-op mission (Cfor which I modified to include the BAF units) and I was able while flying with the Apache to lock with Hellfires all sorts of vehicles, including cars such as UAZ (all sorts: with MGs, with grenade launchers, unarmed) or light armored vehicles such as the BTR-90.

I don't know but I think you should consider reinstalling you ArmA2/OA all over again if the problem persists and no-one else reports such problems...

But for now, try if you can or cannot lock UAZs or BTR-90s in case there is something related to other vehicles.

Edited April 5, 2011 by ricnunes

[SerialMum 10]

Hi,

I think I may misunderstood some parts of your original post, sorry for that!

That is my bad english...

BTR and UAZ - that seems the point: Sometimes I could not lock them.

I have the feeling, this happens, if noone (no other player no other AI of own side) sees them. Then i could only lock tank - if other ai is around, i can lock them. It is a feeling, because it happens rare - and i am rare alone.

Have to test this more in Editor.

Otherwise i do as you suggest - reinstall...

thanx and cu

SerialMum

[ricnunes 0]

Well, good luck with your problem. I haven't had much time to play ArmA since last weekend but if I have something to add regarding this problem of your, I will post it here.

Incuring the risk of hijacking I still can't understand why I can NOT order my AI gunner to lock an infantry soldier or lock a static weapon such as a Heavy Machine Gun or a fixed Zu-23. I know that there was a version where you could order your AI gunner to lock a static weapon with Hellfires and engage those same targets with Hellfire missiles. But know with v1.59 that's simply not possible again.

I even sugested this in a ticked in the community bug tracker but I think the responses (votes) where NOT positive from most of the other users, hence why I sounded to "pissed" in my first post here...

[Laqueesha 474]

Speaking of locking on, in ArmA 2, heat-seeking missiles can lock onto bicycles. :D

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Well, good luck with your problem. I haven't had much time to play ArmA since last weekend but if I have something to add regarding this problem of your, I will post it here.

Incuring the risk of hijacking I still can't understand why I can NOT order my AI gunner to lock an infantry soldier or lock a static weapon such as a Heavy Machine Gun or a fixed Zu-23. I know that there was a version where you could order your AI gunner to lock a static weapon with Hellfires and engage those same targets with Hellfire missiles. But know with v1.59 that's simply not possible again.

I even sugested this in a ticked in the community bug tracker but I think the responses (votes) where NOT positive from most of the other users, hence why I sounded to "pissed" in my first post here...

Are you using the 2 target menu to select targets?

[ricnunes 0]

Are you using the 2 target menu to select targets?

Yes, I am. It was this way that I managed to lock Static weapons (Heavy machine guns, static grenade launchers, Igla pods, static SPG-9s, etc...) in the previous 1.57 version. With 1.59 I could never manage to lock any of those static weapons with hellfires using the 2-target menu.

[eggbeast 3673]

its about time we sorted out the chopper pilots

this looked interesting so we built it into our clan mod list and use it in evolution sahrani etc

9NiF8BBxpNo

here's the mod

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=7373

mi24 lock range fix

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=10901

I've editedthis to include the new BAF and OA choppers here:

http://109.70.148.244/gits/Arma/@Blazes_update.rar

it certainly does the job. we re-arm some apaches with brimstones from RKSL mod and then they lock like old skool, so you can have both options on the airfield.

Edited May 7, 2011 by eggbeast

[ricnunes 0]

Well that gdtmod helicopter weapon is certainly interesting and I remember to have tested it in the past and it looked great. But there was a problem (which is one of the reasons that I currently don't use this mod) in which I wasn't able to make a gunner AI to fire a missile (such as a Hellfire or a Sturm) against a target - This is a situation that makes helicopters almost useless for me since 90% of the times I fly helicopter gunships with me being the pilot and with an AI gunner.

It's interesting to see that you're still using "mi24 lock range fix" which is a mod/fix that was made by me for ArmA2 (pre-Op. Arrowhead). :)

[eggbeast 3673]

yeah its great!

we have a hind on the airfield in fallujah especially to play with this baby