The united states of america are officially broke

[Wobble 1]

no, we should have made it a loan and not a gift, that way at least they would have an excuse to be such assholes towards us

[moerty 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ May 17 2002,03:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ May 17 2002,03:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We wouldn't have all these problems if we would just quit lending money to the rest of the broke dick world. Screw the Marshall Plan, we shoulda just went home and left Europe a pile of smoking ruins, it all became socialist anyway despite all our efforts. <span id='postcolor'>

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html

---

Right at the top it tells you where this money is owed to. Interestingly enough, half of it is owed to the government itself Wtf <span id='postcolor'>

federal reserve is actually a private enterprise, that works for the government. it has i think 4 main foreign stockholders that own most of the stock.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ May 17 2002,04:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pictures plz <span id='postcolor'>

Ain't got any on a  computer and I ain't got a scanner   . Either way I wouldn't do it without asking her first  . We've been friends for a long time and AFAIK it's still that but when it get's to the point where she threatens your life if there's a chance you can't make it....things start looking interesting.

[ralphwiggum 6]

actually the biggest debt(Fed Reserves one) is consisted mostly of bonds. US Treasury Bills and so on.

One of the ways a gov't can borrow money is through issuing bonds, and that seems to be the major reason of that debt confusion.

And Fed. Reserve is not a private entity, AFAIK.

[second_draw 0]

IMHO i don't care what the dept/balance of my or any country as long as i get the newspaper on time and not being opressed by a dictator & etc. I'll be right

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ May 17 2002,06:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ May 17 2002,04:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pictures plz <span id='postcolor'>

Ain't got any on a  computer and I ain't got a scanner   . Either way I wouldn't do it without asking her first  . We've been friends for a long time and AFAIK it's still that but when it get's to the point where she threatens your life if there's a chance you can't make it....things start looking interesting.<span id='postcolor'>

you can snail-mail the photos to me, then I'll scan them for ya and upload Just stick to the nude shots, so you don't have to put a million stamps on the package.

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it all became socialist anyway despite all our efforts.<span id='postcolor'>

That is one thing that I hate about my home country, Finland.

Maybe this is usual all over Europe, but every right-wing politician is labeled as a "populist", or "extremist"..

And what about "social democrats" or communists?

When they win some election, there is no scandal.

But when right-wing wins election, like yesterday in Holland

(?), it is in the newspapers in Finland. Normally the

newspapers here don't pay much attention to Holland's

politics..

Le Pen didn't even have to win the election to make a

scandal.

If it is a democratic election, and right-wing politician

wins, then what the f*ck can you do?

Declare war to France?

Oh well.. I don't care about politics that much, I just

can't stand left-wing people.

Being a communist here in Finland is as stupid as can be.

They should look at our big eastern neighbour and

think again.

[Supah 0]

Tovarish: Good luck i had a nice date last night, but i dont think me and her are gonna be anything more then great friends. Women with a sence of humor are the best ..... I just somehow get the feeling im out of my league with her.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Wobble- "the US has had a national debt ever since mid WW2 bacuase of SEVERAL things.."

-The USA hasnt had a debt since WW2.

The rest of the WORLD had the financial debt (to the USA) post WW2 whilst the USA was rolling like never before

"B: being the single country to provide ALL financal aid for the rebuilding of Brit, germany and japan (screw italy ?)"

-Italy got money too but overall it was a Euro total of-13 billion in grants to Europe- less than expected Congress reduced it a lot

"C: providing aid without ever expecting to be re-paid. to god knows how many 3rd world shitholes, mexaco.. etc etc"

So do all developed countries- the US provides only a small amount compared to some other countries- and a TINY (one of the smaller) amount compared to GDP

This view that the USA is singlehandedly feeding the third world is completely fictious- Japan for example uses a MUCH greater percentage of GDP for foreign aid and other countries ( such as Britain that i know of ) have already written off a lot of third world debt and last time i checked Third world countries were STILL PAYING their debt to the US (yes they DO pay <in installments that is>)

Whats more many countries pay out more in debt than they recieve in aid so youre giving with one hand , and taking with the other.....

As for NATO .....the USA (government that is) WANTS to pay that money to keep its influence in Europe ,

and prevent the emergence of the EURO army .

Its a deliberate strategy of containment by maintaining European releiance on the USA (which is why the USA has opposed the EURO GPS system, the EURO RapidReactionForce, and most other moves to independance)

So as you can see its not as simple (or generous) as you make out

The USA uses its money and resources to buy influence and reliance on it from others

its your countries Global containment strategy

So if you are happy for the US to step down from the Superpower stage- then go ahead-(vote for an isolationist)

but otherwise

You take your choices then live with the costs.

[RatPak 1]

Britain did not need re-building after WW2. It only needed to take on the economic solutions from the plan, because a good deal of Europe with whom it had some trade agreements with collapsed. The Marshall plan helped boost the European economy as well as rebuild split Germany and westernn europe, especially because pretty much the US and western Europe did not want communism from the east spreading over to the west.

[RatPak 1]

A euro army? I heard and read about it but it seems a bit of long shot. Some euro countries dont get on well with each other (more often than not) unofficially, and what with right-wing extreamism increase in Europe and all that...

[Indychuck 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

As for NATO .....the USA (government that is) WANTS to pay that money to keep its influence in Europe ,

and prevent the emergence of the EURO army .

Its a deliberate strategy of containment by maintaining European releiance on the USA (which is why the USA has opposed the EURO GPS system, the EURO RapidReactionForce, and most other moves to independance)

<span id='postcolor'>

Acording to this story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi....403.stm

Bush supports a EURO RRF.

Here in America, at least in the Mid-West, we are kinda isolationist. A lot of us think we get involved in stuff that isn't our business. Mean while we have homeless war Veterans sleeping on the street but we'll give billions of dollars in aid to some country that hates us. That doesn't seem right to us. As you said that's the whole Superpower title though. To see who can spread their influence further, it's been the same throughout history though. It's not right, but sadly that's the way it is.

      I would like to see a EURO RRF. The problem is that the US government doesn't think Europe has the military forces to truly defend itself. In the eyes of the US, Britain is the only real military in Europe. That's why we ask them to join us every time we want to blow something up. The rest are just seen as token militaries. I'll admit that is an arrogance stance. But that's the way we see it. We still have a cold war type mentality. It's us against the world and we don't have enough of anything. When it comes to the military the only word you need to know is more. More, more, more, more but us Americans wouldn't have it any other way.  

As far as the EURO GPS system, that comes down to money and business. Why should I want you to make something yourself if I can make you buy it from me. Kind of like OPEC getting mad at the Russians for not cutting oil production. Russia is cutting into their piece of the pie. There is no way I would support something that would take billions of dollars out of my pocket. Big business screwing over the little people is universal. It's just in the US we have most of the money so we're better at it than most

[LordZach 0]

help the russians develop siberia since the democrats throw a fit every time someone mentions anwar, cut off saudi aide and stop buying their oil so we can stop pretending to be friends.

euro army? is that like millions of frenchmen armed with shovels?

[InRange 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LauryThorn @ May 17 2002,12:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it all became socialist anyway despite all our efforts.<span id='postcolor'>

That is one thing that I hate about my home country, Finland.

Maybe this is usual all over Europe, but every right-wing politician is labeled as a "populist", or "extremist"..

And what about "social democrats" or communists?

When they win some election, there is no scandal.

But when right-wing wins election, like yesterday in Holland

(?), it is in the newspapers in Finland. Normally the

newspapers here don't pay much attention to Holland's

politics..

Le Pen didn't even have to win the election to make a

scandal.

If it is a democratic election, and right-wing politician

wins, then what the f*ck can you do?

Declare war to France?

Oh well.. I don't care about politics that much, I just

can't stand left-wing people.

Being a communist here in Finland is as stupid as can be.

They should look at our big eastern neighbour and

think again.<span id='postcolor'>

Couldn't agree with you more. People are measuring with double standards nowadays.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Yes- Indychuck

i think you are somewhat right....

Bush is a torn leader, he wanted (and still does) to be a little more isolationist but the September attacks forced him out of that and made apparent the necessity of continued intervention in world events.

If the US doesnt intervene in the world (or half-heartedly as in the Clinton years) ,then sooner or later the world will intervene in the US

So i think Bushs foreign policy will be a bit more (interventionist) like Clintons than Bush is really comfortable with for a while to come yet.

[Pukko 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LordZach @ May 17 2002,16:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">euro army?  is that like millions of frenchmen armed with shovels? <span id='postcolor'>

US army? Is that like millions of fat Americans killing the enemy by sitting on them?

Regarding the topic: I often say that the most important thing in the 'western' world is illusion, and no illusion hold forever. Here in Europe we definitely live in a illusion world; but I recon it is far worse in the USA. 9/11 was only one of thousands important (and often very abstract) illusions brought down............

[GFX707 0]

lol, Europe has 3 times the population of the USA, and that's just the richer countries

better start learning how to spell properly

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ May 17 2002,09:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you can snail-mail the photos to me, then I'll scan them for ya and upload   Just stick to the nude shots, so you don't have to put a million stamps on the package.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL you're out of luck, all I got is our high school prom pictures

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Women with a sence of humor are the best ..... I just somehow get the feeling im out of my league with her. <span id='postcolor'>

Yep I got the same feeling. Oh well ya never know

[RatPak 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes- Ratpak i think you are somewhat right....

Bush is a torn leader, he wanted (and still does) to be a little more isolationist but the September attacks forced him out of that and made apparent the necessity of continued intervention in world events.

If the US doesnt intervene in the world (or half-heartedly as in the Clinton years) ,then sooner or later the world will intervene in the US

So i think Bushs foreign policy will be a bit more (interventionist) like Clintons than Bush is really comfortable with for a while to come yet.

<span id='postcolor'>

That's right. Even though I live in europe, the world does need US intervention, and most of us over here can see that. One world superpower has fallen out of the ring leaving one standing, but if that pillar falls if think we would be in trouble.

This may be delving too deep into politics, but so far US intervention has certainly cooled off dangerous hotspots in the world. We do appreciate you guys being around y'know!

[ChickenHawk 0]

Hay EX-Ronin, I think your pic has been hacked    

Every few seconds it comes up with 'I LOVE PLACEBO'

HAHA  

[ChickenHawk 0]

BTW, The Marshall plan is whats known as Dollar Diplomacy.

Give the crap countries in Europe lots of American trade and they will think American stuff is better than Russian stuff. Therefore they wont become commies and Russia wont be as powerful. They will also be willing to trade with the US so you get more trading partners and double your money.

[Akira 0]

3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ChickenHawk @ May 17 2002,213)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW, The Marshall plan is whats known as Dollar Diplomacy.

Give the crap countries in Europe lots of American trade and they will think American stuff is better than Russian stuff. Therefore they wont become commies and Russia wont be as powerful. They will also be willing to trade with the US so you get more trading partners and double your money.<span id='postcolor'>

Germany is a "crap country"? England is a "crap country"? France is a "crap country"? Ok there Chickenhawk. What USSR text book are you reading out of because the facts are clearly "lacking" in that statement.

Trade? Yeah trade was involved but that was natural. The bulk of the money went toward rebuilding shattered governments and cities.

And yes it was also a form of diplomacy to keep countries out of the USSRs sphere of influence as they gobbled up countries. But that would be a "bad thing" to you I'm sure since you are probably too young to know what it was like to live in a communist satellite state.

But you are right...it was all a fiendish plot for the US to double their money....which obviously went horribly wrong since it helped put us further in DEBT!

Yeah thats what it was....pathetic....

*rolls eyes*

[ChickenHawk 0]

OK, crap country was a simple term I guess, but I meant mainly the eastern European countries.

For your info, I was alive in 1989, I was 5

Unfortunately I don't have your age old experience of a communist regime. But it is a sure fact that most of those countries paid you back for the money and they probably are still paying you. Brit was still paying you for World War 1 right up until the late 80's

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And yes it was also a form of diplomacy to keep countries out of the USSRs sphere of influence as they gobbled up countries. But that would be a "bad thing" to you I'm sure since you are probably too young to know what it was like to live in a communist satellite state.<span id='postcolor'>

How could it be a "good thing" ?

BTW the text book I'm reading from is European History 1848-1945, it does include some of the cold war stuff right at the very end.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ChickenHawk @ May 17 2002,22:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK, crap country was a simple term I guess, but I meant mainly the eastern European countries.

For your info, I was alive in 1989, I was 5

Unfortunately I don't have your age old experience of a communist regime. But it is a sure fact that most of those countries paid you back for the money and they probably are still paying you. Brit was still paying you for World War 1 right up until the late 80's

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And yes it was also a form of diplomacy to keep countries out of the USSRs sphere of influence as they gobbled up countries. But that would be a "bad thing" to you I'm sure since you are probably too young to know what it was like to live in a communist satellite state.<span id='postcolor'>

How could it be a "good thing"   ?

BTW the text book I'm reading from is European History 1848-1945, it does include some of the cold war stuff right at the very end.<span id='postcolor'>

Marshall Plan was mainly for WESTERN European countries as the Soviets had already invaded/liberated most of Eastern Europe by wars end. It was particularly for Germany to try to avoid the causes of the war in the first place (ie Versaille {sp}Treaty),as well as to build a Western ally to conteract the Russian advance.

It is NOT a sure fact the countries paid us back. In fact some haven't paid at all and never will....just the way diplomacy goes.

I suppose in a revitionist-pseudo-socialist point of view the Marshall Plan could be viewed as "dollar diplomacy". In the true sense it was a concerted effort to rebuild western europe so as to have a counter-balance to the growing Soviet threat. Trade was not a big part if any of the Marshall Plan in its ideological form. That came from natural rebuilding and diplomacy building.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Marshal plan was placed to prevent non-Russian-occupied EU countires turning to radical communism after WW2, when EU was more like rubbles than Rome in 700A.D