Post Fukushima. Where Now for Nuclear Power?

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Saw this and thought about the news blackout'

http://youtu.be/TMXvpWoHzeE

I had some doubts two weeks ago, whether this is the end of atomic power generation, through fission at least. Now it's crystal-clear, no second-rate countries with no ethics, or decades of research behind them will be allowed to have it.

Egypt, Libya, Turkey - all tried to plant a few units before it's too late, viewing this situation from the perspective of Iran. Turkey especially, they wanted to build 3 (4?) new units by 2020, now it's a fading dream. While Iran's ambitions can be settled by a wing of F16s, the rest will have to abide by new Law, which, no doubt, will come this Summer-Fall.

Everyone is being taken for a train ride at an ever increasing speed towards a cliff, and only a few cabins in the front have the capacity to avert destruction through whatever means you might image.

[Rovka 14]

Well, there is only one thing for us all that remains to be done by now.. That is to enjoy our lives:

where we can,

when we can,

with who we can,

because we can,

aslong as we can!

But please not to the expense of somebody or something else but ourselves to do the suffering if deemed neccessary to do harm to something or somebody, in the proces of having fun.. Let it be done by ourselves to ourselves instead, if you'd dare to call yourself a true (wo)man!

That said, have a nice day all!

Edited April 21, 2011 by Thani '82

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

But please not to the expense of somebody or something else but ourselves to do the suffering if deemed neccessary to do harm to something or somebody' date=' in the proces of having fun.. Let it be done by ourselves to ourselves instead, if you'd dare to call yourself a true (wo)man!

[/quote']

Currently, the world does not work that way; the sole reason why there has been no help from the International Community regarding Japanese nuclear disaster situation - the creation of even stricter measures by the IAEA & others in order to prevent banana republics from acquiring the load they could not carry - nuclear power. All of this will be decided in Vienna this Summer.

Anyone willing to call my bluff on that? ;)

I'm implying that the situation was allowed to deteriorate to Level 7 accident to show that any one nation can not bear responsibility in such events, thus suggesting a creation of an Entity above any and all national states.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Iroquois Pliskin

[Rovka 14]

Yup.. all bigger entities are as corrupt as the Roman Empire's forum-senators all wanting to pick a grain for themselves! And the plebs suffer as usual.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Thani '82

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

http://k.min.us/imWXac.jpg 925kb! Edited June 18, 2011 by Alex72
Filesize >100kb

[4 IN 1 0]

I think I'd just post this here for a little insight about how deep of our energy problem we have.

9JHMTejd920

[mrcash2009 0]

Brian "Man of the moment - Darwin Theorist - We all came from rocks and are heading no place - One World Notion - Over Population Hinting (population reduction underpinning) - New World Order - Science for the unquestioning masses through the lie box - TV Poster Boy" Co(ck)x.

I trolled, I admit it :)

Yup.. all bigger entities are as corrupt as the Roman Empire's forum-senators all wanting to pick a grain for themselves! And the plebs suffer as usual.

All roads lead to Rome eh.

Well, there is only one thing for us all that remains to be done by now.. That is to enjoy our lives:

where we can,

when we can,

with who we can,

because we can,

aslong as we can!

Thats called, putting head in the sand :)

I'm implying that the situation was allowed to deteriorate to Level 7 accident to show that any one nation can not bear responsibility in such events, thus suggesting a creation of an Entity above any and all national states.

Or in other words engineering a hate campaign for nuclear back to fossil fuels of which we are told are running out, so prices stay super high, win win almost. Edited April 22, 2011 by mrcash2009

[st_dux 26]

Currently, the world does not work that way; the sole reason why there has been no help from the International Community regarding Japanese nuclear disaster situation - the creation of even stricter measures by the IAEA & others in order to prevent banana republics from acquiring the load they could not carry - nuclear power. All of this will be decided in Vienna this Summer.

Or in other words engineering a hate campaign for nuclear back to fossil fuels of which we are told are running out, so prices stay super high, win win almost.

[mrcash2009 0]

Ugh, a predicable post of mass ignorance. Yes, we all wear tin foil hats ... bla bla bla (yawn) ... yet while you suggest this, the issue of the thread continues.

Here you go, I found a video that befits that mentality, hope you

. Edited April 22, 2011 by mrcash2009

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

mrcash2009, we need to get Earth's population down, somehow. And Sahara-spanning irrigation projects involving underwater reservoirs to nourish the crops of the Bedouins in Libya wouldn't help. :-)

[walker 0]

Hi all

New Video from inside Fukushima. Note the sparklng on some of the shots. Two house points for anyone who can tell me what that is?

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/videos/3276141/robots-show-images-from-inside-fukushima-reactor-buildings/

As to the future of Nuclear Power after Fukushima we perhaps all need to consider that the cost of fission power is that the tax payer has to cover any costs of an incedent as well as the long term clean up and storage costs for irradiated fuel rods.

This is because insurance costs for Nuclear Power are too high for the industry to afford so they simply do not have any insurance.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110423a2.html

...The cost of a worst-case nuclear accident at a German plant, for example, has been estimated to total as much as €7.6 trillion ($11 trillion)...

My use of bold in quote

This then leaves the tax payer with the Bill. In Fukushima's case for just 1 year its cost is half the growth of the Japanese economy.

http://economicsnewspaper.com/economics/fukushima-in-japan-costs-half-of-its-growth-in-2011-16759.html

First estimates of total cost of this 30+ year disaster begin at two trillion dollars. Or almost half Japan's GDP for a year, to cover it Japan will have to raise taxes by 20% for 5 years or 10% for 10 years or 5% for 20 years. If the cost is anything like that estimated in Germany it will put the Japanese economy in hock for for a century or more.

Because of the populated nature of the FEZ and the economic areas that it will affect; Fukushima will cost more than Chernobyl.

http://enenews.com/expert-fukushima-is-much-bigger-than-chernobyl-will-cost-much-more-in-human-terms?replytocom=4800

A similar incedent in the US would be as bad as the recent depression.

And of course these are just disaster costs. We still have no solution for the Iradiated Fuel Rods that the Nuclear Power industry are leaving Tax Payers to clean up.

If the Nuclear Power Industry was a car on the road it would be an uninsured death trap with a dodgy exhaust spewing out a smoke screen to its rear, a teanage tearaway driving it, leaving oil slicks everywhere it parked and the boot would be full of crack and heroin.

No wonder its days are numbered only a numpty would want that in their country.

http://economicsnewspaper.com/policy/german/economists-nuclear-disaster-could-slow-global-growth-2537.html

http://www.vermontlaw.edu/Academics/Environmental_Law_Center/Institutes_and_Initiatives/Institute_for_Energy_and_the_Environment/News.htm

Kind Regards walker

Edited April 22, 2011 by walker

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

The white pixel flashes is the ionising radiation being picked up by the matrix of the lens of the camera. This can be observed during radiotherapy via the following means:

Unit 4 has pretty much the same - free irradiation into the environment in the absence of containment:

[Rovka 14]

@ MrCash2009,

I did not imply merely to make it look like sticking head in the sand, as you say. Allow me to elaborate it a bit more, for you to fully understand what I mean, as it is clear that you had followed your own interpretation of it all.

Where it seems like a call to stick the heads into the sand en-masse, I also said: Because we can, and Aslong as we can.

With this I do mean some have the fortune to be able to learn on a level higher then others. Not everybody can handle University Degrees you know!

Not everybody is interested in becoming an Energy-Expert. Not everybody is willing or able to invest most if not all of their time of their lives into such undertaking.

But, where I say Do whatever you want, I also mean: Visit longtime no seen family or friends. Because people all to often are stuck in the daily shipload of drag going to work, getting home, going to work, getting home, and so forth.

Many do not even diverge from that pattern, and perhaps such statment may make them think twice of keeping to such pattern! And then again, what is wrong with a bit of positivity as such?

You alternatively could've asked for more elaborate answers, but sadly instead you immediatly took it for granted only after it passed your interpretation. Pretty much shame to see that happen. If you do not fully know, please feel free to ask next time.

It is not my intent to attack you, or anybody else, nor do I seek to humiliate you or anybody else in public, but please do heed my friendly meant advice before you judge me. Thank you.

mrcash2009, we need to get Earth's population down, somehow.

We have to get rid of our currently set dependancies! We have to be allowed to become self-sufficient, and to do so, we have to act more self-reliant!

Also we have to (re)educate those who keep on breeding like mad, teaching them it's for their own interest, and everybody's sake not to do so!

Withhin Europe, and I believe the "Western World" in general, the amount of children per family is 1.2% on average where the percentage needed to keep up the population numbers away from becoming extinct is 2.7%. Caucasians however see their numbers decreasing, but Asians and Africans keep on outbreeding the Caucasian on numeric scale when it comes to percentages.

This is often caused by and mainly in poverty and poverty stricken area's of the "Underdeveloped World" It's the Worst in the "Third World", where they see it as an absolute neccessity for their own survival because many of their newborns die on a young age. Thus leading to the "need" to procreate more children, in order to get cared for when them parents are too old! They do not have a wellfare-state that gives jobs like Pension-house/Resthome employee.

That is the whole problem here.. Those people living in the "Second and Third World" expect us to hand them the solutions for them! They keep on expecting Aid-Money to come rolling out of our pockets, into their hands, and shy away from their own self-reliant independent growth as a whole. African continent is mainly kept small, because it's profitable by a small elite that makes big money out of such monopoly position!

This is what we should get rid off, this is where we ourselves should set an example of being absolutely independent again, not having to rely on energysources provided for us, having our own indoor inhome, at work used supply-system. How that can work I don't know, but investment should focus solely on that.

But aslong as those poverty-stricken area's are kept poor, and these people are kept "dumb", and under-educated the situation will keep getting out of hand, all for the sake of dirty profit!!

Edited April 22, 2011 by Thani '82
Shortened outlined version, to avoid long stories.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Quick remark: Thani '82, I do agree, but look at this way - Europe has been 'civilised' via means that we don't have to discuss, while regions like the river Nile delta have upward of 30 million people living there - sustainable? It's not, and we know it; we wouldn't even have to send any tanks or aircraft there for the collapse to happen, it's premeditated by Nature.

I might expand on that later. :-)

[mrcash2009 0]

You alternatively could've asked for more elaborate answers, but sadly instead you immediatly took it for granted only after it passed your interpretation. Pretty much shame to see that happen. If you do not fully know, please feel free to ask next time.

You misinterpreted my use of the smiley :)

mrcash2009, we need to get Earth's population down, somehow.

Indeed, and currently on many fronts its working wonders. Edited April 22, 2011 by mrcash2009

[Rovka 14]

To get back at the amount of people worldwide.. How about a new kind of industry, called Powersupply by means of Humans as Horsepower? We have an over-extensive amount of people, most of them are jobless in said poverty-stricken area's, and these people could be set to work, to provide energy-supply for themselves to use, by means of industrialized power-creation.

This power-creation can be used to create home/office-use treadmills, to again decrease the demanded dependant-policy world-wasting chain-of-supply! We do need energy to create those treadmills, them people in the poverty-stricken area's need jobs for income, how about making use of their abbility to walk?

With those numbers around they can easily do about 2 hours a day per adult person living in such state. As for our own situation, we already have the means to manufactor those threadmills, and it is urgent to start alter the excisting threadmills into becoming electricity-producing variants.

I do not see any reason for not using humans as electricity-generating part, over use of having a Nuclear water-cooker, or Fossil-fuel vaporize steam, and make a generator go spinning, when we have such massive numbers on the planet to create said self-reliance on an industrialized scale!

We do not need wind-turbines, we do not need solar-panels and steel-variants/chemicals be produced to create these, wasting Earth away in the proces.. We need to invest our times, do our duty to create energy as if we were hamsters on a treadmill, for the sake of our own energy-supply and the Earth as a whole!!

For us too, it creates jobs, purpose, and a different outcome unlike the current wheel of negative spiralling downwards.

Let us do something like this for the time being whilst we remain alive, for sake of all our personal lives time left, and future generations. Every minute less fossil-fuel/nuclear-fed energy-plants used, any minute less dependancy is time won for the sake of all ourselves including the entire world!

Please do spread the word, and get this to influential people and experts able to figure out on how to make it work on such massive scale!

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Hamsters in a wheel - that is degrading, and I'm fighting against it. I value quality over quantity, and why should we as a species live on our knees from Sunrise to Sunrise? All of the power is readily available - the atmosphere, near-Earth orbit, geothermal, tides, nuclear fission & fusion; regarding fusion: once ITER is successful, Humanity will be divided between those who could, and those who would or could not, division will be on an order of magnitude higher than there is today.

That is what we're trying to avoid.

[ProfTournesol 956]

To get back at the amount of people worldwide.. How about a new kind of industry' date=' called Powersupply by means of Humans as Horsepower? We have an over-extensive amount of people, most of them are jobless in said poverty-stricken area's, and these people could be set to work, to provide energy-supply for themselves to use, by means of industrialized power-creation. [/quote']

That was the solution used in the Antiquity. But we've had 2000 years of evolution since those times.

[Beagle 684]

That was the solution used in the Antiquity. But we've had 2000 years of evolution since those times.

But if you look a bit sharper you wil see that socitey has not changed that much. The wealthy ons still rely on slave labor, we just don't call them slaves anymore end leave them where they are.

Rome 54 B.C and Rome today has a lot of resemblance.

The whole society change beginning with christianity in europe showed that society structure can go backwards from modern like parlamentarism over tyrany into feudalims at any time for a thousand years.

History has seen a lot of relative liberal prosper and peacefull decades like we had the last 50 years for parts of the world in the last 5000 Years. None lasted for very long.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Beagle

[Rovka 14]

And what has evolution brought forth again? What did all those advancing achievements create? Not willing to participate in such, is in my book not worthy to receive energy, if not wanting to invest in creating and maintaining your own energy demand and supply.

Antique perhaps, but all it needs is a mentality change, and people are the same as Hamsters, because many behave like rodents hoarding included, and are still mammals like those rodents! So what is degrading about being equal to a rodent?

We still have to share the planet with them rodents, aswell as with every other human being. And I rather be "disgracefully" compared to a rodent such as a Hamster, then being joyfully compared to a monster to which many Humans are behaving themselves like!

Take a look at Whaling for example, most detest it, because it's a crime to do, where it lays waste to an entire species of mammals that Whales still are!

So comparing mammals to mammals teaches us, that we are butchering our equals in life for our own short-term profit!! Regarding Nature/Environment: Remove one cog, and the entire machinery will eventually stop working..

And this is excactly what Mankind (what's so kind about us regarding this all?) is doing at the moment, and again regarding Nature/Environment we currently, ánd collectively wipe out one thing after the other, instead of keeping it balanced and perhaps even adding something up! No all we do is degrade, degrade, and again degrade because of our overgrown excistance on the world! You dare to call that "advanced society?"

Did they had such environmental problems 2000 years ago?? Did they had to deal with such an amount of people back then, such an amount of waste to cope with? Such an amount of insufficient coherence, and anti-social behavior back in those days for them to deal with?? Do I still need to continue here?

Granted, every time-period has it's own problems, but all those problems combined of the distant past, and the relatively near-history do not equal the amount of problems we currenty have to deal with Globe-wide!

You'll get my point right down below:

There is no excuse not to undertake such developement if you truly want to alter the course away from such imminent self-destruction, to which the human race is heading towards, and with us the entire world held hostage under our collective human rule!!

Pure and simple!

Edited April 22, 2011 by Thani '82

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Thani '82,

As much as I would like the following not to be the case, the Forces that shaped it are irresistible: it is too late for the second & third world countries... they are dragging the rest of us, slowing progress.

The vision set in stone is grandeur: Any resource, at any time, any where on the face of this planet would be available at a call of a phone to the people/projects it needs to go; local populations are a collateral damage, since they persist as a defiance to the vision. The United States (Germany) already had working application to the fission of the atom, the world could've been cleansed many times over and reshaped in the form that is necessary for progress, but they choose not to do it and let synthesis of progress (West/East) take place.

What you propose may very well be used, although after there is digital control over the processes of entities involved, not a second before.

Edited for emphasis. ;)

Edited April 22, 2011 by Iroquois Pliskin

[Beagle 684]

And what has evolution brought forth again? What did all those advancing achievements create? Not willing to participate in such' date=' is in my book not worthy to receive energy, if not wanting to invest in creating and maintaining your own energy demand and supply.

[/b']

The point is that a lot of traditional living people on this planet dont need m,uch energy...but WE WANT THEM to need energy so we stick them computers and fridges into their mud hut to make them customers at all cost and the expense of their culture that is optimised to their environment for like 2000 years.

That's the typical way: burning the rainwood for cheap meat and telling the indigenous people to ghet a job. They did not need one until someoen burned down their biotope. The typical "working time" for people in their natural environt ment is usualy 2-4 hours a day...we want them to work 12 a day without gaining any social life quality.

the crazy thing is that we are going back to mud huts (with solar cells) in europe now and refusing to use too much technology...so we need others we can sell concrete housings with air conditioning to.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Beagle

[Rovka 14]

@ I Pliskin & Beagle:

Both of you are right on your own addition to this thread, but so is mine. But to my understanding indeed there are to many people, indeed we have to do something to change it for the better, yes indeed it is OUR demand for power -- as usual over the backs of others, including those amongst our own ranks here in the "wealthy" nation-states!

So? Are you ready to see your own house, and all it's belongings be destroyed for recycle-process to create mud-huts with solar-cell for heating water and getting electricity?

Are you ready to sit idle and see the world waste away in front of your eyes, perhaps getting to an old age, and telling the children of the future of what you haven't done, only to be greeted by frowning eyes, sadness and disbelief?

And as always rises the question: "Why?!" and "Why not?". I do not say we should overload our ways of living upon people living theirs on their way. Bushmen and "stone-age" tribes should better be left alone, and led living their lives the way they do for thousands of years, generation after generation!

I suspect all this warfare to be done to get our greedy hands on Fossil-Fuel supplies, ánd to lower the amount of people on the planet, merely there because they do NOT CONFORM with our current ways of living, that we are thought and forced to live by. These knowingly bombed, and malnourished are not the kind of consumers those policy-makers seek to shape and abuse. This is why there is warfare. Its a War For Demands fought, with goals set supposedly wanted to be met in our names!

Still wanting to sit idle resting your butt at home?? Does anyone have the number for the International Injustice Protest organisation, able to spread some demonstrating/protesting about these matters worldwide where such system of consumerism excists?

If not, I still would like to know how to organize such, and gain an overwhelming amount of anti-consumerism followers, wanting to make a change, where the government cannot ignore it anymore, nor is able to surpress it's people anylonger. Even if it means death, I am willing to give my life for it, if change is brought about because of it!

And you guys? How serious are you about it? The world needs Lemming-effect aka. Swarm-Tactics until the last bullet is shot, and nobody is able to fire, or bayonet or club down anybody anymore! Government is always in a position of minority that controls majority!

A good example is the way Ghandi operated in India! He got his state free, without using force on a force that used it against him and his followers, until they could no more! That is power of will of people wanting to be free, the will to sacrifice their lives for their cause!

How about you guys?

*Edit* By the way, ofcourse I know a dead man can't act up to it's own set cause anymore. But eventually we all are going to die anyway.

Therefore I think it does matter only how you die, to hope for the best it is as painless as possible, where you die being surrounded by friends or family, or atleast people caring for your burial or cremation, or whatever. What matters most, is why you die, and whatfore! But dying you're going to do anyway nonetheless.

Question rises: On whose side? Neutral or Pro or Contra? Death in itself, as harsh as it sounds, is a force to be reckoned with, and yes, gruesomely it is all too ontopic in this thread, for I fear many innocent will die a most horrible death because of our collective choices made, even if they're unwillingly supported if only people fully knew the consequenses.

And then again, how would you feel if you knew some alien-like monstrous entity came to your lands, used tracked-mechanical vehicles and tools to kill your family, where all you had for movement was a donkey-pulled cart for transport?

How would you feel if it was Taliban who had set out to conquer your own home-state or nation, to plant Nuclear Waste-Depots all over the land, knowingly put you at risk, and to do so erradicate large portions of your fellow native people around you.

Regarding Afghanistan, we may not know for sure, and many share the view there is nothing to gain from it: I say they want to turn that nation into a huge Landfill in which they then can dump their radiated waste and other kinds of garbage! Thus it becomes ontopic and relevant to this thread after all!

Perhaps it isn't all too bad to live the way those people do, leading "simple" lifes, that are based around tending your poppies, or crops for income. All that we need is faith, and that being believe in ourselves, and our collective possibilities rather then unequalties and differences! I say thats a cause worth to die for, if we have to eventually die anyway.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Thani '82

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Thani '82, since we all acknowledge the overpopulation crises on the planet, give us your thoughts on this message:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

I can expand how 'we' can avoid recycling our houses into scrap, and better yet - increase our energy consumption in the long run, though, it involves certain short-term sacrifices, which leads this discussion in a very unpalatable direction that is not suited for any public forum.

[Rovka 14]

Hmn... I've been reading through the stuff you've linked to on that page, and I have to admit I'm not surprised by that rumor of having a timecapsule buried into the ground there. Ofcourse, that's merely a pretext, a reminder to those willing to understand its honest and serious meaning, that such capsule isn't really there. But that capsule is accessible for anybody willing to invest into such matter, at any given time, from the moment they start trying to accomplish it's set goals.

My point of view is that we have to get rid of sprawling cities that never stop growing because:

- Overconcentration means elimination.

- Unrest, Pollution, Animals seen as pests because too many humans encounter these.

- Unaffordable prices for everybody, as land gets scarse, and transport bogs in trafficjams.

- Resources needed elsewhere get sucked up by predominantly such cities + inhabitants.

- etc.

So my suggestion would be, how do we convince people to spread out again, instead of concentrating? How do we reverse the urbanization-tendency? This urbanization seems lucrative for a poor farmer coming from the rural backlands, but as many others, they too hardly find work, as all jobs are already taken. A farmer doesn't turn professor overnight, and regarding where they come from; if not at all!

But also take a closer look at what such heavy concentration of people had brought about, regarding the original topic of this thread incase of danger. People packed so densely, that they hardly have anywhere to run, without massively congesting the roads, obstructing one another, thus decreasing possible survival, with any minute they are remaining in the dangerzones.

As for the island of Honchu (same as which harbours Tokyo city) I think it'll be abandoned, because the lands are infected with radiation without any doubt, also outside the FEZ. Unless the Japanese government wishes to see most of it's population die of cancer, and see horribly deformed babies appear in the next generation newborns, best would be to leave Honchu, and make it a CEZ, where Nature decides what goes and grows.

As what to do with those people? Kyushu island is part of Japan, and I know it's rather rural opposed to Honchu, but they could do with the same amount of land if they predominantly start building upwards instead of spreading outwards! They have the technology to create Earthquake-proof buildings. And the more they build these, the cheaper it is supposed to become. Plus Kyushu-island lies a bit further away, then next-door Honchu which lies directly to the dreaded faultline that runs along the North-Eastcoast of Japan.

So an option for renewed thinking would be to standardize usage of solar-panels on roofs to begin with? Fishing better be abandoned, since the ocean is now poisoned, and nearly emptied of healthy fish-populations anyways. That's a show closed for sure. But I can imagine that not all of Japan can be housed on Kyushu and other Japanese territories besides Honchu, let alone many of them willing to even leave their birth-ground!

Letting many of them immigrate to China's eastern coast area isn't an option either, especially with Nanjing Massacre in the Chinese their minds, as if it had happened yesterday, and the Japanese government still not having apologized for its crimes commited during WW2.

Korea isn't an option either, as the Koreans both North and South hate the Japs even more then many Chinese already do. Apart from flooding their own territories, atleast dragging the population out away from the most harmfull hardest hit area's, all that can be done, is wait for the first victims to fall to cancer etc. Gradually as sad as it is, space is created by the flow of voids left by deceased people.

Because even if the Japanese government would truly undertake such enormous operation of moving whole villages and towns, it would take litterally 2 years before the land is stripped bare of all it's people population alltogether. Let alone the huge amount of fossil-fuels needed to keep the trucks etc going..

So my best bet is on people actually starting to move-out themselves, not wanting to wait for their own government to finally spring into action, that may cause even more victims when they are acting too late, due to their hiding of the actual truth of the extend of damage done to all and everything..

So what are your thoughts about such?