Realism - parachutes in choppers?

[Insthink 0]

Paratroopers were first introduced during ww2. First used by the germans.

The technique was to pass over the LZ with carrier planes and drop lines of soldiers.

The huge flaws of this strategy were that the soldiers couldnt carry all their equip as parachutes couldn't handle it so they had to find the chuted crates of ammo, the spread of the troops was too much, some would fall way off LZ, fall in trees, fall in water and drown (First german attempt anyone?) and get disorganized. Also, the ground troops could shoot them as the paratroopers were weaponless.

The meaning of airborne troops changed with the introduction of choppers. Soldiers arent chuted anymore, they are dropped directly on the land with the choppers. The soldiers carry all their ammo, are all bunched up, and land exactly were needed.

Now in OFP, every paratrooper attemps you see in multiplayer and most of single player are parachuted troops off CHOPPERS!!! I mean WHAT THE HELL. I havent hear of parachuting off choppers in the military. This is way too easy for teams to drop their soldiers. Since you get chuted with all your equipment (unrealistic) and don't really care to be with or without your group and cant get shot from below (unrealistic), parachuting is perfect and unstoppable.

Do this, remove the parachutes in choppers. If a chopper wants to insert troops, they better learn to land! as it is, newbies can transport anyone anywhere, no one knows how to land the damn thing. Multiplayer allows chopper respawn anyways =P

Air vehicle kills are nearly impossible for ground troops as the choppers can just quickly pass high above ur head, they never land, try to shoot a chopper flying 100m above ground, going at 250km/h with a AA!!! Force them to land like they do in every real wars. (Where they can get shot, makes it even more dangerous and thrilling)

If a chopper is shot down, make the engine sustain for a little while so the pilot can do a control crash (Anyone seen Black Hawk Down? They didnt have chutes! and makes piloting ever more perilous.

OF is about realism and danger, right now, airborne troops are ww2 strategy off post-ww2 vehicles into a post-ww2 warfare.

Force pilots to learn to land fast, make the game even more skillful, or at least, make the no-chute option for veteran mode and let the newbies chute off in cadet mode.

[dayglow 2]

Well do you see any fixed wing aircraft to carry the paratroops? Not much you can do about that until someone creates a C-130 which would be nice.

Now as for paratroops a WWII stratagy, guess no one told the airborne regiments in the armed forces. Airborne is a highly covanted spot in the armed forces and in the US they are a step below the Rangers. Most rangers are first from the airborne. Same with Brits, the airborne troops are the best and in Canada the same until reasently because of political reasons. It's a lot easier to drop a large amount of troops and palletized cargo than to ferry it in with a ton of helicopters. An airborne operation will inclued at least a few hundred troops. Try moving that many with helicopters into a LZ. It would be hell. I remember reading stories like that from Vietnam where everything goes to shit because a helicopter breaks down in the LZ and can't take off. Now what? The whole operation is screwed up because of one mechanical failure. Dropping a large number of men by parachute is still a very valid tatic.

COLINMAN in space

[Blake 0]

I agree, paradrops from helicopters is ridiculous and fights against principles of chopper airmobility. Using parachutes in choppers is totally unrealistic.

Is there any way to disable parachutes from players riding in choppers?

[Insthink 0]

DayGlow, the only times using paratroopers with fixed wing airplanes are in huge strategical attacks, meaning involving hundreds of troops with a front line.

Look at OFP, there arent that many soldiers involved. Most of the time, you would send 2-5 soldiers in the same LZ, dont tell me you need to chute them? There arent fixed wing airplanes for carrying troops in OFP because there arent that many soldiers going in the same area.

Just 1 chinook is enought to carry a platoon in combat which is a big enought number for OFP missions.

Tell me, when was the last time they used parachuted soldiers in an actual war? Not a military practice, i know they still parachute in those.

[LordZach 0]

i agree it is dumb, but since there are no cargo planes, repelling, etc landing and getting out is kind of risky deep in enemy territory.

i don't know how well planes would work anyway since it opens the second you jump out, usually causing you to go down in black smoke if you are too quick

[FetishFool 0]

I agree that the parachutes are unrealistic...  But hell...

[dayglow 2]

I agree in the scope of OFP that airborne tactics aren't necessary and the idea of parachuting off of a helicopter isn't that great. Also remember the number of troops in OFP is limited by your computer not the engine, so a large battalian size battle is possible, just not likely with todays hardware.

Just by reading your post you seemed to be stating that airborne troops weren't being used at all in RL. Agreed that there hasn't been a full scale conflict since WWII where they have been used, but they must be there for something right now. Why would the countries spend so much money on training and maintaining these troops if they are no longer a valid tatic.

COLINMAN in space

[Insthink 0]

Sorry DayGlow, i should have been more specific =P

Nowadays, the airborne troops are mostly used in chopper landings because there hasnt been any use for wide scale airplane parachuting, but of course, the airborne troops are still being trained to use parachutes.

But my whole point again was that in OFP, it shouldnt be =P

LordZach, thats the whole point, danger at landing. it is dangerous to go in with a land vehicle, from fear of LAWs or mines. It should also be a danger for choppers to go in enemy territories.

[LordZach 0]

parachuting is a valuable option in OFP and IRL and we don't really have any alternatives to jumping out of choppers at the moment unless we want to make a 1:3 cessna/soldier ratio for an airdrop which i think looks really lame. "oh look, a dozen cessnas coming to deliver some squads to us"

[RatPak 1]

I do recall reading (and seeing pics of) someone making a C-130 model to drop troops from on the OFPEditingcenter forums.

I think it was for use in a Falklands war mod though I'm not sure whether they were used in the conflict. not sure.

The model itself was last seen untextured but nonetheless it looked good.

[LordZach 0]

i'm sure plenty of mod teams will be releasing a C-130 when their mod is done but that will take a long time probably, and so far all the non-team members that have said they were making one were shitting

[RatPak 1]

Ah, right

[LBGS_Stewart 0]

the last war i know of them using Paratroopers was Nam. they where experimenting with High alt. inshrion with opening the shutes at low alt. which in a way was a good idea sence LZ where limited in the Jungle and the VC would moniter this area's so the life if the Paratrooper are not gone, just waiting for the right time. as far as using them out of choppers in actual life i am not shure i thought i might of read it some were where they have do this but cant quite reamber.

[scario 0]

I saw a TV-program where some SpecOps-guys performed a paradrop from a Blackhawk over an building where hostages where held by terrorists...so, then it worked...

[drcharm 0]

The first country to use paratroops was actually the Soviet Union. The Germans really got the idea for the Fallschirmjager from a demonstration by the Soviets.

Cheers,

Dr. charm

[Insthink 0]

the germans were not the first to invent it, but they were the first to use it in actual combat

[KingBeast 0]

Argentinians used C-130's i do believe (during the falklands) but not for parachuting as far as I know. I do believe they actually landed

[madmike 0]

Its much more common in the British army and I expect others that paradrops are used.

This is mainly becuase there is a high injury rateor about 30% mainly beucase theyh are done at night.

The usual way now is to use chinooks and either fast rope or kick them out quickly which avoids the high casualties.

Most of the injuries are fractures becuase no reserve chute is carried and if yours doesnt open then you hit the ground and die or wait for a medic

[jawk2 1]

as former paratrooper i once passed a special stage to learn how to get out different air vehicule type:

This included the forward jumping in single, in group, the drop in jet (like the casa spanish) and the chopper.

I confirm u can and it's used in th army (french army the other i dunno but i subodore)to paradrop from a chopper.

The main difference is the opening of the jump sack which is less resistant (u must cover your "life-sangle" better) and the retardment in the parachute sack.. normally it's a 3 second opening, for the chopper it's a 10 seconds opening (the difficulty tend to try to not turn during the first part of the jump or you ll have a very big trouble at the opening). Not many trooper are trained in that (on the 100 recruit that ve done the classtime with me we were only 12 to have this qualification after 3 months of normal paradrop).

It's a great sensation, the ten second give u a hell of feeling *humm and when the parachute sack open if u are a male u got too a hell of sensation too *

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The huge flaws of this strategy were that the soldiers couldnt carry all their equip as parachutes couldn't handle it so they had to find the chuted crates of ammo, the spread of the troops was too much, some would fall way off LZ, fall in trees, fall in water and drown (First german attempt anyone?) and get disorganized. Also, the ground troops could shoot them as the paratroopers were weaponless.

The meaning of airborne troops changed with the introduction of choppers. Soldiers arent chuted anymore, they are dropped directly on the land with the choppers. The soldiers carry all their ammo, are all bunched up, and land exactly were needed.

Now in OFP, every paratrooper attemps you see in multiplayer and most of single player are parachuted troops off CHOPPERS!!! I mean WHAT THE HELL. I havent hear of parachuting off choppers in the military. This is way too easy for teams to drop their soldiers. Since you get chuted with all your equipment (unrealistic) and don't really care to be with or without your group and cant get shot from below (unrealistic), parachuting is perfect and unstoppable.

Do this, remove the parachutes in choppers. If a chopper wants to insert troops, they better learn to land! as it is, newbies can transport anyone anywhere, no one knows how to land the damn thing. Multiplayer allows chopper respawn anyways =P

Air vehicle kills are nearly impossible for ground troops as the choppers can just quickly pass high above ur head, they never land, try to shoot a chopper flying 100m above ground, going at 250km/h with a AA!!! Force them to land like they do in every real wars. (Where they can get shot, makes it even more dangerous and thrilling)

If a chopper is shot down, make the engine sustain for a little while so the pilot can do a control crash (Anyone seen Black Hawk Down? They didnt have chutes! and makes piloting ever more perilous.

OF is about realism and danger, right now, airborne troops are ww2 strategy off post-ww2 vehicles into a post-ww2 warfare.

Force pilots to learn to land fast, make the game even more skillful, or at least, make the no-chute option for veteran mode and let the newbies chute off in cadet mode. <span id='postcolor'>

Obviously a soldier you are not, much less an airborne one. We jump both UH-60's and UH-1's. Although actual combat jumps out of helos are rare, though they are not unheard of.

I will admit that a pilot ejecting from a UH-60 with a parachute is not realistic, but it makes survivabilty in the game a little better, as if it wasn't hard enough already. Black Hawk Down is a book and movie. The actual operation was named Gothic Serpent. FYI. Why does everyone compare the aspects of OFP to a single military event that was mostly a blunder?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (drcharm @ May 16 2002,20:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The first country to use paratroops was actually the Soviet Union.  The Germans really got the idea for the Fallschirmjager from a demonstration by the Soviets.

Cheers,

Dr. charm<span id='postcolor'>

yes, unfortunately for a long stretch they didnt actually issue parachutes to their paratroops

[Lazarus_Long 0]

Here's a picture of a guy jumping out of a Black Hawk from the official U.S.Army Airborne School web-site. (click on the Pathfinder School button)

http://www-benning.army.mil/airborne/

It is getting very tiresome hearing all these whiny threads about how "unrealistic" jumping out of helicopters is.  The U.S.Army does it ALL the time

[Tex -USMC- 0]

My dad was a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne back during the Vietnam era. He made a couple jumps out of helicopters. So yes, it is realistic that you can jump out of helicopters in OFP.

[FallenPaladin 0]

You can jump out of/down from everything (skyscrapers, cliffs,... ) . The only thing that should be of your interest, is that your parachute opens up. And is able to slow down your falling speed.

[Insthink 0]

Ok, ok, then parachuting off choppers has been used and still is for special operations, everything planned, trained troops for it.

For OFP, you have all those people just jumping on the chopper for a quick lift and magicaly they find an infinite supply of chutes (Ok, I know ammo crates also have infinite ammo) and are all trained and skill to jump off with chutes no matter their class and how much amunition they carry, can drop from 60m, going at 250km/h without a scratch?

Please, this is ridiculous, the way u guys talk about people chuting off choppers are planned operations with a few selected soldiers.. OFP is everyone.

USSoldier, my use of BHD was just an example, i know the movie is somewhat fictif even if "Based" on a true story, but the tactics were realistic and if everyone in the choppers had chutes all the time in every mission, then the movie wouldnt have been the same now would it? Heck, when a chopper's engine is bust in the air, they usualy try to use the rotor's current spin to do a control crash, not eject, and I know that from those documentaries u see on History channel