Su-25 radar bug, armor fix

[Star Four One 10]

@SFO

I don't get your argument.. i'm not some Civiy who googles or uses wikipedia as a Source.

You made a statement that IR missles are not subject to jamming.. I backed that up by explaining how optronic jammers and IR decoys work. So you made that statement, I quoted direct unclassified specifications for multi-million dollar systems designed to counter these threats - yet you claim I can't back up my statements?

I wante to close this thread, because It is far straying from the topic of radar and su-25 armour in the game. People are getting into topics of real world, and that doesn't help the problem that I originally posted.

Seems to me that Ryguy got my point and didn't need to go into a 3 page battle royal about it.

As far as Active/Retired Military members and Opsec goes - SURPRISE! You are talking to one!

I currently have 7 Years Military Service, Still serving, and Am a Member of the Royal Canadian Dragoons. I've x-trained with Americans in Fort Bliss, Texas, and New Mexico.

I have Heaps and Heaps of information about weapon systems, ballistics, targeting computers, surveillance, I've even been trained on a few locheed martin targeting systems. I've also trained in AFV, escape and evade, advanced interrogation, cryptography, foreign weapon systems, LWR, CNRB, etc. etc.

I've had countless briefings on air defence, electronic warfare, you name it.

So maybe you should be careful about assuming I am not knowledgeable about weapons systems. You claimed I should back up what I write, but when you claim that IR missles CAN'T be influenced by jamming, did you back it up? Did you back up anything you wrote? Aircraft aren't gonna be toting around beacons.. they will use the optronic jammer and active IR decoys just like I wrote.

And as far as the "poor old poor Russians" are concerned.. they can do whatever they want.. They don't care about budgets.. They have been neck and neck with the U.S since the 60's. In some areas they were behind, and in others they are way ahead.. how do you think they put a man in space first with about a 10th of the budget of the united states?

How do you think they developed the worlds fastest and unavoidable underwater, rocket propelled super-topedo? The U.S tried to get their hands on it for $18M for a prototype, but instead the guy was arrested and sent to Siberia for being a spy... Putin himself came to Canada and sold us 1 for the same price... Russia doesn't WANT the states to know what they have... so don't be so confident in thinking that the Ruskies are back in 80's technology - That's what your Government feeds you as propoganda so the pencil pushers in capitol hill can sleep better at night.

So this topic is officially de-railed.. but if you want to continue this trend... by all means, until it gets turfed by the mod.

As a CF member who HAS NOTHING to do with aircraft, has used a Wiki, or unreferenced source for information that you know NOTHING about, where do you get off saying you have backed up your claims? Then you call, "close topic" because I don't agree with you?

When you make a claim that a Frogfoot can take SAM launches like there nothing and differ ANY IR or Radar guided threat, back it up. All you have done is paste a Block upgrade to a thin and far between number of SU-25's. The last 3 pages have shown completely uninformed information from someone who is obviously not involved in the a/c department. It's like me telling the Germans how to make their BMW's with "so much of my experience".

When you turn on any source of Radar or counter measure on, it can influence the chance of being "picked up" dramatically. Whatever you send out can be used against you. Why do you think the Iraqi's and Serbs flickered their SA-2's throughout the campaigns? Do you think they had to much brewski's, or is it because they were scared shitless of the Wild Weasel?

It's ignorant of you to think the Russians can simply "do what they want", everything costs money, and everything is a business. Even the great pornographer Kim Jong Ill from North Korea can't get away with everything. He buys, or exchanges in favours for everything he needs. Russia is no exception to the rest of the world - the T50 is costing them some coin, even during testing.

You can list all the Russian triumph's you feel is necessary, it doesn't change the fact of budget restraints, and a whole lot of aging aircraft with underdeveloped capability. Ask a Russian maintainer how much time they spend on their jets for each hour of flight, and every 90 hours of flight time.

S41

Edited February 2, 2011 by Star Four One

[Der_Waffen 28]

you do a whole lot of talking.. but no facts or proof come your way.

I've provided backing for my claims.. i've provided excerpts from technology specs, and manuerfactuers, and you want me to lead you by the hand an list every source?

YOU have a computer - YOU can do the research.. it seems to me like YOU need the convincing.

Dude,

You haven't provided anything,

You haven't listed your credentials,

You haven't backed any of your theories,

Your just a geek with a big ego, and a laptop.

so QFT you pencil neck nerd.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

You don't back up shit.

Just long, and boring blah blah blah - self opinionated blogs.

---------- Post added at 07:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 AM ----------

YOU don't know what you're talking about.. you claimed that IR missles can't be influened, than you back peddle by saying they can, but people don't use it becasue they are afraid to use it... Do you have any idea how STUPID you sound??

How about post something you haven't heard on the news or read in a comic book.

[Zipper5 74]

Der_Waffen: The guy posting on a forum for a video game tries to use the "geek" and "nerd" insult. Haven't seen that before. :rolleyes:

Show some respect to your fellow forum members or you won't last very long.

[metalcraze 290]

Dude,

You haven't provided anything,

You haven't listed your credentials,

You haven't backed any of your theories

I spot with my little eye something that begins with 'I'

[Der_Waffen 28]

sorry.. but How are you suppose to tell someone they are a moron.. and Don't know WTF they are talking about.. without insulting them?

If someone says "A"

and I disprove "A"

And I say "B"

then I back up "B" with references and sources..

how does that not qualify as backing up what I write?

[[frl]myke 14]

@Der_Waffen (horrible spelling btw)

Simple rule of science:

There is no proven fact unless sources and/or routines exist to validate/verify the so-called fact.

So far you haven't proven any facts. Sources would be the appropriate way to prove what you state. Surplus, all sources the common forum user has at hand to verify your "facts" do state them false. So what do you expect?

Let's see as example the Su-47 which is, according to your fact, in serial production.

Sources i found say this:

The Sukhoi Su-47 Berkut (Russian: Су-47 Беркут - Golden Eagle) (NATO reporting name Firkin), also designated S-32 and S-37 (not to be confused with the single-engined delta canard design[1] offered by Sukhoi in the early 1990s under the designation Su-37) during initial development, was an experimental supersonic jet fighter developed by Sukhoi Aviation Corporation. A distinguishing feature of the aircraft was its forward-swept wing, similar to that of the Tsybin's LL-3.[2], that gave the aircraft excellent agility and maneuverability. And while serial production of the type never materialized, the sole aircraft produced served as a technology demonstrator prototype for a number of advanced techhnologies later used in the 4.5 generation fighter SU-35BM and current Russian 5th generation fighter prototype Sukhoi PAK FA.

Yes, it is wikipedia but other sources validate this fact.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-47

Now this way you may arguing, else the only prove you give is that you're big-mouthed, nothing else.

[wipman 1]

Hi, every flying thing portrayed on the BIS games (OFP, ArmA2, OA) is just a poor representation of the real life thing, with less than a 10% of the real thing capabilities on all aspects; look at the AH-1Y... it don't even haves a damn HUD... ask BIS to add something is like pray to God, he may be listening, but you'll never know... and if a change happens... then you think and scream miracle!! miracle!!. But was a funny casual spark on the Murphy's law.

If you really want to try to make yourself heard, your only chance is to create a ticket on the CIT and pray and wait; the update or fix will only for the OA in any case, BIS has forget about the ArmA2, so good look with the prayers. Let's C ya

[Der_Waffen 28]

Myke;1848835']

Now this way you may arguing' date=' else the only prove you give is that you're big-mouthed, nothing else.

you say I have horrible spelling?

do you even speak english?

I'm not going into this crap again.

blah blah blah.. list your sources...

Do you not have a local library or an internet connection?

look it up for yourself.. what I have written was correct.. Do you think I made up words like "optical Jammer"? or "IR decoys?"

You must be American, because If you were not, you would be asking the guy who said Russia doesn't have the budget or technology to keep up with modern ECM, like the West does.. Did you ask him to back up sources?

Nope... Neither did you ask SFO to back up his claim that IR missles can't be jammed or influenced by scrambling.

So I would suggest you not get involved, because you are obviously influenced by Uncle Sam.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Der_Waffen
highlight grammar, add comment

[[frl]myke 14]

Your name is horribly spelled, your writing (in terms of grammar, not content) is good so far i can tell. But let's keep this aside, it just gives me headache everytime i see it.

And i am not american, far from it and america is also not my love either (let's don't get into politics anyway, thats another topic).

And finally, your post does indeed proof my theory that you're just big-mouthed because you still fail to name any sources for your statements.

FYI, i don't have internet, i write everything in a letter and send it to my ISP so he can put it in the internet...it is horrible slow but it works.

So name sources to prove what you're assuming. I tried to find myself but failed so far (yeah common, thats a perfect target for a sarcastic comment, gimme your best...c'mon) but on the other side i've found dozens of sources that proves you wrong.

So a very last time:

everyone else has stated facts that are verifiable through various sources.

You, so far, had just a big mouth and until now epicly failed to prove anything.

And thus makes one clear: you're german.

[Der_Waffen 28]

lol.. i'm not German.. Nor am I even European.

And as far as sources.. am I suppose to call up Arms Manufacturers? What would you accept as proof for sources? The internet?

And as far as me having a big mouth and not backing up anything, what have I written that Is not fact? What is contestable?

Are you contesting that the Su-25 doesn't have active and passive IR jamming/deflection?

Are you contesting that Russia doesn't have the money to develop cutting edge countermeasures?

Are you contesting that the Su-47 isn't in production?

tell me what you think I am running my big fat mouth off about.. and i'll list it again.. and try to list sources that will satisfy you.

DW

[ryguy 10]

Myke;1849793']epicly failed

Omg... I'm holding my breath right now

[Star Four One 10]

you do a whole lot of talking.. but no facts or proof come your way.

I've provided backing for my claims.. i've provided excerpts from technology specs, and manuerfactuers, and you want me to lead you by the hand an list every source?

YOU have a computer - YOU can do the research.. it seems to me like YOU need the convincing.

Dude,

You haven't provided anything,

You haven't listed your credentials,

You haven't backed any of your theories,

Your just a geek with a big ego, and a laptop.

so QFT you pencil neck nerd.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

You don't back up shit.

Just long, and boring blah blah blah - self opinionated blogs.

---------- Post added at 07:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 AM ----------

YOU don't know what you're talking about.. you claimed that IR missles can't be influened, than you back peddle by saying they can, but people don't use it becasue they are afraid to use it... Do you have any idea how STUPID you sound??

How about post something you haven't heard on the news or read in a comic book.

You have NOT provided backing to your claim. Backing your claim would be listing sources to state your point. I find it very hard to believe your credentials, especially after this rant of showing up to ECM demostrations as a 'armour guy'. :rolleyes:

What my job is, is not what should concern you, or any member of this forum. Although, from my profession; these posts on aircraft always make me wonder. I'll leave it up to you to ponder where I stand (or ride).

Waffen, Russia has no cash to fund production fighters that compete with the West. Fact of the matter is, they can't even develop and produce ASEA for their jets, when America has been Flying Vipers 'with it' for the last 4 years. Nevermind a full production C7n'ed Raptor. I'd be suprised if each of their pilots is hitting anywhere close to 100 Hours yearly.

You think some dream plane is going to compete with it - 'like a tech demo' - 'or propaganda machine'? http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/s37/

The US runs technology demostrations more frequently then any other country on the planet. http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article19.html

Those are just a few converted Vipers... let alone the many other a/c and experiments.

Quite a mouthfull huh? It's hard having to respond to a wall of misinformative info, about something a person has no knowledge or 'credentials' to apply with.

S41

[birtuma 28]

Never heard of T-50, Su-35, T-95 etc.? Just some of ongoing projects...

[Beagle 684]

Never heard of T-50, Su-35, T-95 etc.? Just some of ongoing projects...

The T-50 will see some future for sure. It's the russians first true very low RCS airframe and it least it can fly so far.

[Star Four One 10]

Never heard of T-50, Su-35, T-95 etc.? Just some of ongoing projects...

The "T-50" isn't even close to being fielded, once in the production curcuit, it's not as though thats a 'done deal, lets move on to the next one'.

The SU-35 still works off of older combat/flight principles - no doubt a great aircraft - but lets be realistic about this. How many do you think will be produced? Not alot.. Of those, how many operational within squadrons? Im sure a 3rd would be designated... What about sortie rate? Or best of all using a "older generation" avionic suite, to compete with newer, fielded, western jets.

It is in no way produced to combat the F-35, or the Raptor for that matter. I know I wouldn't. :cool:

S41

Edited February 6, 2011 by Star Four One

[Der_Waffen 28]

You have NOT provided backing to your claim. Backing your claim would be listing sources to state your point. I find it very hard to believe your credentials, especially after this rant of showing up to ECM demostrations as a 'armour guy'. :rolleyes:

What my job is, is not what should concern you, or any member of this forum. Although, from my profession; these posts on aircraft always make me wonder. I'll leave it up to you to ponder where I stand (or ride).

Waffen, Russia has no cash to fund production fighters that compete with the West. Fact of the matter is, they can't even develop and produce ASEA for their jets, when America has been Flying Vipers 'with it' for the last 4 years. Nevermind a full production C7n'ed Raptor. I'd be suprised if each of their pilots is hitting anywhere close to 100 Hours yearly.

You think some dream plane is going to compete with it - 'like a tech demo' - 'or propaganda machine'? http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/s37/

The US runs technology demostrations more frequently then any other country on the planet. http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article19.html

Those are just a few converted Vipers... let alone the many other a/c and experiments.

Quite a mouthfull huh? It's hard having to respond to a wall of misinformative info, about something a person has no knowledge or 'credentials' to apply with.

S41

That sounds to me like that's your opinion.. I don't think you can speak for what the former Soviet Union has in it's inventory, or what it's annual defence budget ought to be.

Ever heard of the new russian super ICBM? not sure what it is called but a short blog about it is here.

http://english.ruvr.ru/2010/12/16/37031739.html

If you want, i'll dig up more info on it. I was watching a program recently, and they interviewed an American General who said the U.S. has absolutely no defence for this system, but plans are in the works to invest 1 TRILLION dollars over the next 10 years to counter the threat.

another American rear Admiral spoke similarly of the Shkval supercavitation torpedo - in which no counter can be mounted.

i'd be more than happy to dig up names and sources for you if you want, becasue it was all over T.V.

---------- Post added at 12:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 AM ----------

edit: not sure he said " over the next 10 years " but he definately said 1 trillion dollars, thats 1000 billion.. I was blown away by that number.

[birtuma 28]

The "T-50" isn't even close to being fielded, once in the production curcuit, it's not as though thats a 'done deal, lets move on to the next one'.

Hmm... Maybe you should predict more of the future. :rolleyes:

The SU-35 still works off of older combat/flight principles - no doubt a great aircraft - but lets be realistic about this. How many do you think will be produced? Not alot.. Of those, how many operational within squadrons? Im sure a 3rd would be designated... What about sortie rate? Or best of all using a "older generation" avionic suite, to compete with newer, fielded, western jets.

Putin just ordered 35 of Su-35s, they will be built till 2015. It is a 4++ generation jet, which uses modern technology, and it will be probably better than the majority of US jets like modernized F-16. What this jet doesnt have is some stealth characteristics.

After 2015 Russia and India will order a couple of hundreds T-50. The jet will be the analog to american F-22, which by the way wont be built anymore because it's too expensive. ;)

Anyways... I just wanted to say that Russia has enough money to develop new weapons, technology etc. to disprove your statement. They dont do this too excessive as the Americans do, because there is no necessary need for too many expensive projects. They just want a smaller and more modern Army to defend themself, and not what the Americans do, to invade smaller countries to "defend the freedom". :D

[Der_Waffen 28]

Hmm... Maybe you should predict more of the future. :rolleyes:

Putin just ordered 35 of Su-35s, they will be built till 2015. It is a 4++ generation jet, which uses modern technology, and it will be probably better than the majority of US jets like modernized F-16. What this jet doesnt have is some stealth characteristics.

After 2015 Russia and India will order a couple of hundreds T-50. The jet will be the analog to american F-22, which by the way wont be built anymore because it's too expensive. ;)

Anyways... I just wanted to say that Russia has enough money to develop new weapons, technology etc. to disprove your statement. They dont do this too excessive as the Americans do, because there is no necessary need for too many expensive projects. They just want a smaller and more modern Army to defend themself, and not what the Americans do, to invade smaller countries to "defend the freedom". :D

Well put... VERY well said.

It's funny that when people like Myke and Star Force One make an opinion, there is no need to provide proof or sources, but when someone tries to quote technical specifications verbatim, all of a sudden list all your sources or it didn't happen - typical American approach.

So many people misinformed about Russia...

c'mon guys - do you think they will be sending the pentagon an e-mail every time they develop a new weapon???

i'm sure SFO will be back to shed more pearls of wisdom.

(gets out nose plug)

[[frl]myke 14]

@Das_Panzer

§11) No duplicate accounts

Having several accounts is strictly forbidden. If you want to get a new account contact a moderator. If you wish to change your name for any reason we will be happy to do that, if you discover you inadvertently ended up with two accounts we can merge them for you, better to inform a moderator than risk being banned as a "dupe".

You have been banned for a reason, take it as the man you like to be.

:EDITH:

It's funny that when people like Myke and Star Force One make an opinion, there is no need to provide proof or sources

Well, i thought i've listed at least one source for what i was saying....this is one more than you so far.

And i'm still not american nor even close to it.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1848835&postcount=31

Edited February 7, 2011 by [FRL]Myke

[Der_Waffen 28]

I wasn't banned for anything.. You must be referring to my avatar.. it's simply that an avatar.. why would I still be posting if I was banned?

[[frl]myke 14]

I wasn't banned for anything.. You must be referring to my avatar.. it's simply that an avatar.. why would I still be posting if I was banned?

Oh c'mon..."Der_Waffen", "Das_Panzer"...do i really have to call Captain Obvious?

Edited February 7, 2011 by [FRL]Myke

[Beagle 684]

by the way...correct german would be: Die Waffen (plr), Der Panzer (sgl).

[Der_Waffen 28]

what does this have to do with the thread?

stay on topic please.

just noticed that in game, when you go to team orders (warfare) it says the AI can build Su-39 squadron, and taking a closer look at the su25 in game looks like it is indeed a su-39 (looks like electronics got moved to the nose)

also the IR jammer in the tail.

So it appears the Su-25 in game is indeed Su-25T

all the more reason to have in game radar upgrade to sniff out IR missles.

edit: Just so you know Beagle Das Panzer is correct.. just like Das Auto

"der Panzer" is incorrect.. "the" in the case of "the tank" denotes non-ownership, an inanimate object, like the chair or the car.

It would be different if you were to say "the child "

Edited February 8, 2011 by Das_Panzer

[wolfbite 8]

Cant be the Su-25T/39 has a hump on the back for extra avionics/fuel.

[[frl]myke 14]

edit: Just so you know Beagle Das Panzer is correct.. just like Das Auto

"der Panzer" is incorrect.. "the" in the case of "the tank" denotes non-ownership, an inanimate object, like the chair or the car.

It would be different if you were to say "the child "

Oh really? http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Panzer

For your next account i know a suitable name: "Die_Clown" FPDR

Edited February 8, 2011 by [FRL]Myke