Why don't AI use RPG's on Helo's?

[ArmAriffic 10]

Perhaps you could make it so that they fire only one rocket at the aircraft and only if it is under a certain speed and height. That way they will still have some rockets left for tanks but in easy shot situations where the helicopter is sitting still and only 50m up they can take it out.

Good idea

[dm 9]

And Afghanistan and Iraq.

Last I heard the only time they fire RPGs on helicopters in Ghanners is when they're on/off loading in the LZ. (And as such a stationary, easy target). The rest of the time doctrine keeps them way up high out of range, or down in the bushes going hell for leather. Good luck trying to hit either of those types of target.

That being said, if your pilot is a retard and just hanging out at 100ft bumbling along slowly, then yes, the AI should take pot shots at you with their rpgs. I fear they would suffer the usual OFP/ArmA "AK Sniper" syndrome with them tho. Its going to get hella boring being shot down by rpg fire every time you get in a chopper....

[Banderas 0]

That being said, if your pilot is a retard and just hanging out at 100ft bumbling along slowly, then yes, the AI should take pot shots at you with their rpgs. I fear they would suffer the usual OFP/ArmA "AK Sniper" syndrome with them tho. Its going to get hella boring being shot down by rpg fire every time you get in a chopper....

This.

Before thinking about things like the OP suggest (which by the way is already featured in some mods), I think the accuracy of unguided AT rockets (shot by AI) needs to be set right. I don't think it's OK to hit even land vehicles with an RPG/M136 from 500m with 99% accuracy.

[Tonci87 163]

You all should read the book black hawk down by Mark Bowden!

It tells the real story of this bloody day in somalia. You wont be able to watch the movie after that without thinking "Oh my god, hollywood is sooo stupid"

[Gunter Severloh 3955]

In Arma yes Armed Assault, not Arma2, there was a mod I had included in Arma version of WarMod which was called truegamplaymods,

in this particular mod the Ai did indeed engage you if u were in a chopper, as well as engage low flying jets.

these are some of the features of that mod:

TrueGameplay-AI-Engagment v1.0

- Increased engagement distance (AI will engage up to 600m for typical).

- Increased rate of fire (AI will engage at a faster pace and they will use burst/full-auto mode around and up to 300m).

- AI will fire handheld weapons at transport helicopters moving at medium to slow speed (AH6 included).

- AI will fire AT rounds at slow moving helicopters.

- AI tanks will fire Sabot rounds at slow moving helicopters and possibly HE rounds at infantry.

- AA units will now engage Jets. (AA soldiers now fire AA at fast moving Jets).

If Rg the maker of this mod could make an OA version and maybe tweak it to make it more realistic

I think our problem here would be solved to a degree.

[Txheat 10]

I think the Ai should use RPGs against Helos that are unloading troops. Its seems reasonable, because its a either extremly slow moving target or one that is not moving. It can have excess of 10 troops coming out from it and you have the ablitly to kill them.

[MissionCreep 12]

I was hovering moving at an incredible 1km/h and he did not even change to his RPG and Black Hawk Down is based on a true story of the war in Somalia, that even actually happed

I believe the RPG rounds used on helicopters in the Blackhwak down scenario had timing-fuses rather than contact fuses, for which the helo pilots evasive maneuvers were designed to defeat.

[Banderas 0]

I believe the RPG rounds used on helicopters in the Blackhwak down scenario had timing-fuses rather than contact fuses, for which the helo pilots evasive maneuvers were designed to defeat.

You believe wrongly, there's no such warhead existing for RPG-7, they aren't designed as flak weapons, and time fuses don't have too much use against hardened targets. What you probably thinking about is much more proximity fuse, which are used in Air-to-Air or SA missiles (or anti-submarine weaponry), but that's also too sophisticated for a simple RPG round, and non-existent.

Time fuses were mainly used in large-caliber AA artillery pieces, such as the (in)famous Flak-18 & derivates, where the fuse was set to explode in the height where large bomber formations flew, so those rounds needs high predictability in the pattern of the target to be effective.

On another note, I beleive AI already uses light AT missiles against choppers that unloading troops, since they usually land for the time of the extraction.

[jakerod 254]

You believe wrongly, there's no such warhead existing for RPG-7, they aren't designed as flak weapons, and time fuses don't have too much use against hardened targets. What you probably thinking about is much more proximity fuse, which are used in Air-to-Air or SA missiles (or anti-submarine weaponry), but that's also too sophisticated for a simple RPG round, and non-existent.

RPG-7s do have timed fuses for their warheads. The book Black Hawk Down mentions that they shortened the fuses so that they would explode near the helicopter. Wikipedia also mentions that they have timed fuses. Globalsecurity also mentions that the warhead self-destructs after a certain range meaning there has to be some kind of timer on it. Howstuffworks also confirms the timer.

[Tonci87 163]

Yes RPGs can have time fuses. RPGs have al kinds of possible warheads....

[Banderas 0]

RPG-7s do have timed fuses for their warheads. The book Black Hawk Down mentions that they shortened the fuses so that they would explode near the helicopter. Wikipedia also mentions that they have timed fuses.

You're right, RPG warheads have fuses that self-destruct the rocket. Let me correct myself, there's no RPG-7 ammo that I know about that have the impact fuse replaced with a dedicated timing-fuse. I don't know about any RPG-7 warhead that can be set precisely to explode at the desired range, shortening the fuse sounds like a guess-work.

Yes RPGs can have time fuses. RPGs have al kinds of possible warheads....

What I know about are HEAT, thermobaric and fragmentation ammo. Of course if there's nuclear, biological, chemical, kinetic or Continuous-rod, and also guided ammunition for them then I didn't say a word.

[Daniel 0]

Think of this way. You're a helicopter pilot in a hot zone, you either have to loiter to provide CAS or drop and pluck troops off the ground. Now someone starts firing big angry rocket grenades at you. You might be able to shrug off rifle fire. You might even take a 50 cal hit and live to tell the tale. But if one of those things makes contact, it will ruin your day. So while they're not accurate, they are plentiful, and they scare the shit out of pilots, making them effective suppressive AA weapons against low, slow helicopters.

Obviously in most situations it'd be a waste, but i'd still like to reenact the real life scenarios where pilots have had to deal with RPG fire. So again, it comes down to Arma2 not being able to distuinguish between well disciplined, well equipped troops, and crazed militia with low-tech weapons and little regard for their own survival.

[Tonci87 163]

The shpotening fuse thingy with the RPGs is only guesswork for untrained personel. There are storys of Insurgent fighters beeing quite good at it. The even use those RPGs to fight enemys that are behind solid cover. They time that thing to explode right above their heads. It doesn´t always work like desired, but if it does.....

[Banderas 0]

The shpotening fuse thingy with the RPGs is only guesswork for untrained personel. There are storys of Insurgent fighters beeing quite good at it. The even use those RPGs to fight enemys that are behind solid cover. They time that thing to explode right above their heads. It doesn´t always work like desired, but if it does.....

People can get quite a lot of practice when they experimenting, like after a while I could tell if the size of the bolt needs a 12 or 13 wrench by only looking at it. But in the very end it is only -as we used to say in aircraft maintenance- is "precision random-measure" or "rule of thumb". So call me stubborn, but if there isn't a range present on the fuse where to "cut" it, then it's still a guesswork.

[Daniel 0]

Veering off topic slightly, I have heard of them bypassing the fuses early in the war, to allow them to use RPGs are mortars over distance.

[MissionCreep 12]

You're right, RPG warheads have fuses that self-destruct the rocket. Let me correct myself, there's no RPG-7 ammo that I know about that have the impact fuse replaced with a dedicated timing-fuse. I don't know about any RPG-7 warhead that can be set precisely to explode at the desired range, shortening the fuse sounds like a guess-work.

The Somalis weren't using custom flak or precision AA RPG-7s. Their warheads apparently were on fuses that were modified to explode in flight. A combination of adaptation, experimentation, persistence, luck and circumstances (the collective mothers of all battlefield innovations) allowed them to take down 2 Black Hawks on the same day.

Edited January 24, 2011 by MissionCreep

[HyperU2 11]

Actually they brought down 3.

[Tonci87 163]

If I remember correctly one black hawk was hit but managed to fly back to the airport

[HyperU2 11]

Yeah, that was just the end of its day. They also knocked one down prior to October 3. They played soccer with some of the passengers heads.

[Banderas 0]

A combination of adaptation, experimentation, persistence, luck and circumstances (the collective mothers of all battlefield innovations) allowed them to take down 2 Black Hawks on the same day.

And of course using the rule of large numbers by firing hundreds if not thousands of RPG rounds away.

[maturin 12]

Veering off topic slightly, I have heard of them bypassing the fuses early in the war, to allow them to use RPGs are mortars over distance.

Huh, seems like they'd have to lean over the edge of a roof to avoid frying their own feet. And so much effort for that itty bitty warhead.

[Fox '09 14]

WarMod for Armed Assault was notorious for AI using Rpgs againsted choppers seen here,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQn0t2pHbqc

chopper starts at 2:29

what mod was it though, since warmod is only a compilation

[HyperU2 11]

Getting them to bring you down is another issue. :)

veM0-q19xlw

[MissionCreep 12]

And of course using the rule of large numbers by firing hundreds if not thousands of RPG rounds away.

The cost of an RPG warhead is about US$20-$30. And the insurgent probably puts an even lower value on their own life. A UH-60 costs over $15 million. You do the math ...

[jakerod 254]

Actually they brought down 3.

I thought it was 5.

I thought:

2 shot down in the city

1 hit in the main rotor but makes it back to base

1 damaged but makes an emergency landing in the shipyards

1 I can't remember.

I might be wrong. I seem to only be able to find 3 on most sites but I swear there was at least 4 and I thought 5.