Another suicide bomb

[Warin 0]

Seems a bomb was set off in Rishon Letzion, just outside of Tel Aviv, at a popular hang out. At least 40 injured with at least 15 killed. Full story here

What the hell are the Palestinians thinking???  Things are finally starting to cool down a little so that negotioations can happen, and some extremist does something like this!  Hasnt any of their leaders explained to them how important the opinion of the outside world is? And public opinion lately has been more pro-palestinian.  Watch that take a tumble now.

Sheesh  

[Akira 0]

You are assuming they are thinking.

[IceFire 0]

I honestly think that the Palestinians there have NO brains or just do not care about ANYTHING.

They don't know that if they cease all violence on their part, Isreal would be forced and WOULD cease all counter assaults.

Isreal has credibility and can be trusted by the U.S. They know everyone is watching and are not going to do something stupid.

If Isreal commits to a promise, everyone knows that they will follow through on it.

It's ridiculous that the Palestinians cannot realize this and use it to their advantage to end the violence.

I do not beleive that the Palestinians want a cessation to the violence.

I think that they all just want to go to Allah as martyrs and that is it. They don't care if they die or get killed. They are sociopaths and crave violence for glory and that is it.

It's too bad the Israelis have to suffer for it constantly.

[advocatexxx 0]

Who cares ? They've been bombing each other there for years. Let them lose their souls like the animals they are. I'm sick and tired of seeing this all over the news and newspapers, let alone here.

[Guest]

A new bulletin flash on CNN came just up:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">President Bush to send CIA Director George Tenet to the Middle East to help build a new Palestinian security force. Details to come. <span id='postcolor'>

Strange world.

[IceFire 0]

Yeah, I just saw that.

That's really good news.

Maybe he will develop a good security task force that is not corrupt?

It's obvious Yasser Arafat cannot control his own people.

Maybe someone else should. But honestly. There is no Palestine. Where are the Palestinian people living? Where is Arafat HQ? Are they living inside Isreal? How can you make a security task force when you don't have any boundaries to secure?

Hmm, I never really thought about that. Maybe in Jordan or Syria?

[Pukko 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ May 07 2002,23:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But honestly.  There is no Palestine.  Where are the Palestinian people living?  Where is Arafat HQ?   Are they living inside Isreal?   How can you make a security task force when you don't have any boundaries to secure?<span id='postcolor'>

Bingo, Bingo!

The Palestinians have no nation neither many rights or possibilities for a what we would call 'decent life'.......

[IceFire 0]

Well, then they should move out of Isreal instead of causing carnage.

I can think of seveal neighboring countries that would accept them.

[IceFire 0]

Or here's an idea!

Why don't they just live in Isreal peacefully?? Hmm?

Then they can pray and live at the site of their holy land just like the Isrealis do.

Hmm? Wouln't that be a better idea than killing innocents for glory??

[Pukko 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ May 08 2002,00<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, then they should move out of Isreal instead of causing carnage.

I can think of seveal neighboring countries that would accept them.<span id='postcolor'>

Avon is good at motivating this solution, ask her..

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why don't they just live in Isreal peacefully??  Hmm?

<span id='postcolor'>

They have never become integrated members of the Israeli society (after Israel conquered the West bank and Gaza during the 6 days war) for a number of reasons, and its probably a little too late to make an effort for it now

[red oct 2]

a way to maybe temperarely fix this problem is to whack Saddam Huesane. he is the one who is providing funds as a reward for the muderers whom are responsible.

[PitViper 0]

I told you guys. its total irrational antisemetic bloodlust.

the Pal extremists are perfectly happy killing Israelis in small groups to temporarily satiate their bloodlust.

[Pukko 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ May 08 2002,00:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a way to maybe temperarely fix this problem is to whack Saddam Huesane. he is the one who is providing funds as a reward for the muderers whom are responsible.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm sceptical if Saddams rewards are worth anything compared to the inspiration to violence the Palestinians get from Israeli actions..

And PitViper, have you seen too many Vampire movies?

[red oct 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pukko @ May 08 2002,00:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ May 08 2002,00:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a way to maybe temperarely fix this problem is to whack Saddam Huesane. he is the one who is providing funds as a reward for the muderers whom are responsible.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm sceptical if Saddams rewards are worth anything compared to the inspiration to violence the Palestinians get from Israeli actions..

And PitViper, have you seen too many Vampire movies?<span id='postcolor'>

acually it is, $10,000 for one fatality of a civilian, $15,000 of a isreali soldier and american. seeing as who, one fatality is rare in these cases, one could rack up a lot of money on just jewish civilians. $10,000 is a lot of cash in palistine, A LOT. thats enough to afford a middle class standard of living for a good chunk of ones life spand (money talks everyware). and you are right about inspiration to violence being one of the main reasons to this problem.

[KingBeast 0]

First off, how does saddam confirm which people ahve kileld and which people are faking it for the money?

Second, what wil tlhe said person do with the money? Bury it in the garden?

[red oct 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ May 08 2002,01:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">First off, how does saddam confirm which people ahve kileld and which people are faking it for the money?

Second, what wil tlhe said person do with the money? Bury it in the garden?  <span id='postcolor'>

im sure mr. saddam has his connections, probley like this:. a terrorist blows himself up, the extreamist group than notifies saddam of who is the new martr, he than writes a check to the family of whomever it was that was responsible this is only a possible guess, im sure he has more creative ways. as for what they do w/ the money, i dont know im sure they spend their "blood money" on conveinences that benifit them in some way/

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ May 08 2002,01:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">acually it is, $10,000 for one fatality of a civilian, $15,000 of a isreali soldier and american. seeing as who, one fatality is rare in these cases, one could rack up a lot of money on just jewish civilians. $10,000 is a lot of cash in palistine, A LOT. thats enough to afford a middle class standard of living for a good chunk of ones life spand (money talks everyware). and you are right about inspiration to violence being one of the main reasons to this problem.<span id='postcolor'>

I think that we discussed this story when it was first published. The one and only news network that published that was Fox network, know for its professionalism. This came about the same time that W. started to talk about getting Saddam... hmmm.. connection anyone? The only interest Saddam has in Israel is about rallying arab support agains the US. He gives a flying fuck about Israel itself. He would have nothing to gain by financing suicide bombers in Israel.

I am constantly amazed how people are naive and believe this type of cheap populistic propaganda.

[red oct 2]

well im fucking sorry if im naive. i really do think saddam is funding terror, im amazed how every thing that is said, made, and shown from the United States is just labled as propaganda.

[USSoldier11B 0]

I doubt Saddam Hussien has the resources to fund the suicide bombingings. UN sanctions have cut the Iraqi economy to shreds and he probably uses every last cent to rebuild his military and produce chemical/biological weapons. I do believe that Saddam Hussein would harbor terrorists and even protect them within his borders though. Enough of an incentive to go after him. Don't be surprised if something happens there soon(within the next year). I know a little something.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ May 08 2002,01:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well im fucking sorry if im naive. i really do think saddam is funding terror, im amazed how every thing that is said, made, and shown from the United States is just labled as propaganda.<span id='postcolor'>

Heh.. nice try, but don't try to make this a US bashing thing, because it is not. None of the other major US network had any reporting on that (or any other world network). If you say that Osama bin Laden is sponsoring terror, I'll say you are right indeed. Saddam Hussein is a two bit dictator with no other interests then keeping his ass in power. He made the mistake of threatening US and world oil interests ten years ago.

As a part of the 'why we fight' propaganda that goes with any war, regardless of nation leading it, he got labeled as the biggest baddest guy in the world. There are dozens of other dictators in the world that have done and are doing much worse things then Saddam could ever dream of, but nobody cares about them. Every more serious news or intelligence gathering agency have abandoned the Saddam story a long time ago. Populistic networks like Fox cash in on gullable and naive persons by exploiting the base that was created as propaganda for a military campaign.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ May 08 2002,02:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Don't be surprised if something happens there soon(within the next year). I know a little something.<span id='postcolor'>

That is scary

I hope you guys know what you're doing

[red oct 2]

i wasnt making any effort in making this as a america bashing thread

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ May 08 2002,02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Don't be surprised if something happens there soon(within the next year). I know a little something.<span id='postcolor'>

I know also a little something. You don't have the logistics to do it in the near future, especially if you don't get full support from the international commuinity. Even Tony Blair, Americas best friend is not so thrilled about the issue. I don't think that you can expect much support from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait this time.

Anyway, I think it can be bloody hard to do it anyway. Lets' see how the carriers are doing:

First I think we can forget about all of PAC (Kitty Hawk, Constellation, Stennis). You wouldn't want to leave China all by itself, would you  Stennis is in Afganistan now, are you going to leave that theatre?

Let's see:

Enterprise is out of play for at leas a year, due to major overhaul

Kennedy is pretty much tied up in Afganistan.

Nimitz is out of play until next year due to upgrades. I guess that it could be used in a GulfWar II â„¢

Eisenhower is out of the game for three years until next deployment.

Carl Vinson is also in Afganistan, but could perhaps be redirected to the Gulf. I doubt it since it would weaken the Afganistan effort.

Lincoln is currently guarding the north western side of USA (Alaska + more). Sure it could leave for the Gulf, but you have to have something at home, right?

Washington could be reverted but is guarding the southern part of the US (US Virgin islands currently).

Truman is in Florida now and on sea trials after an overhaul. Not likely to be deployed.

You have a new carrier, the Reagan coming next year, but it will probably be a while before it is deployed.

----------------

So in brief, I doubt that you could currently pull off an invasion of Iraq without the support of at least some arab countries and all of NATO.

... just a quick analysis, I might be wrong - I don't have access to any real intel these days.

IMO it is all big political talk and Bush junior wishes to finish of his dads work. Besides it is very good for his public support. I just don't know how realistic it is from a military point of view.

On the bright side, you really have a shitload of carriers, it took me almost 15 minutes to list them and their current status

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

What about Forrestal? Its pretty big and still in service (if i remember correctly) and offers about the same size of firepower as the Enterprise used to when it first came out.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ May 08 2002,02:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What about Forrestal? Its pretty big and still in service (if i remember correctly) and offers about the same size of firepower as the Enterprise used to when it first came out.<span id='postcolor'>

Forrestal was decommissioned in '93. I think that she is a (or will be a) floating museum in Baltimore.