- Is possible to remove this?.

[xxbbcc 6]

And the old one is far too complex to be useful in a stressed situation...

Do you mean the 1-9 number system? If yes, I strongly disagree - I haven't seen any idea or attempt yet that was easier than that. I've seen many discussions on these forums about reworking that menu system and I haven't seen a single idea so far that would be even remotely as usable as the number system.

Make no mistake, I'm not saying that the number menu is flawless - at the very least, 6 (Action) has changing items all the time. The rest, in my opinion, is near perfect.

Some people say the new menu is for new people - well, tough luck, they shouldn't need one. This is a complex game with a steep learning curve and the number system doesn't make it much harder. Eventually even new players have to learn it otherwise they get wiped out. I see no point in disadvantaging even long-time players for the sake of new ones when the new ones have no luxury of not learning it.

One thing that specifically infuriates me with this ...ked up garbage menu is that it's trying to be "context sensitive" but it fails miserably - I haven't seen a single occasion when it was correct in the context.

It also makes using the map impossible when it's open. It opens on selecting any team member, and it basically interferes with any operation that I'm trying to do.

If that's not what you meant then what is it?

---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 AM ----------

I created a CIT ticket for the removal of this thing, please vote for it. Even if a revert-to-A1 option is done, that would be great.

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/14596

Edited October 23, 2010 by xxbbcc

[-=seany=- 5]

As far as I remember it was the same in A1, I think we need to revert to how it was in OFP.

[xxbbcc 6]

I just checked, in A1 it works markedly different from A2. I don't have OFP installed anymore so I cannot try that. In A1, when you enter tactical view, there's no menu but once you press a number, it slides in, showing your options. Also, the tactical view doesn't close automatically and it also doesn't close when you try to hit Backspace to cancel a selection.

The commanding menu in A1 - because it's not controlled by the mouse - doesn't interfere with the rest of the game, it just shows up on the UI.

[dm 9]

Having left-click activate the current action menu item is frustrating beyond belief. I really have to wonder what was going through their minds when they thought that was a good idea to implement (god knows how many times I've switched weapons, ordered ai to do something or done something other than shoot in a stressful event...)

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Having left-click activate the current action menu item is frustrating beyond belief. I really have to wonder what was going through their minds when they thought that was a good idea to implement (god knows how many times I've switched weapons, ordered ai to do something or done something other than shoot in a stressful event...)

Yea, one of just a few outright bad ideas from BIS regarding the new UI.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Make it optional, because I actually prefer this. When I see the menu is open, I just right click to get rid of it, no biggie. I have not yet found a mouse without a nervous mouse wheel click - means that when I try to place a satchel, I end up blowing up the previous one, just because the mouse wheel decided it was a good idea to roll when I pressed.

Do you mean the 1-9 number system? If yes, I strongly disagree - I haven't seen any idea or attempt yet that was easier than that.

Oh no, not this again :p I've made some suggestions that I thought was worth investigating how it would turn out. But it's been completely ridiculed without even trying to look at the positives (i.e. as a learning tool to get the number system, with gui, tooltips, graphical elements, natural grouping etc), with a major stress about how it wouldn't even touch the number system. But no... Don't touch the number system, as if the post wasn't even read at all.

And of course, without easy access to the underlying complex commands, there is no way we can even try for ourselves. I never said it was the solution, I said I wanted to play with the idea. But no - request denied. Feels like I'm trying to impose weapon regulations in the USA and this crowd is it's citizens. The rest of the world (new players) knows it's a good idea, at least to try, but try telling that to mr. Heston (old players), lol :D

The number system works for you as is? Fine, good for you. It has never worked for me. I think I have about 5 codes memorized, for the rest I have look go back and forth through menus looking up and down for the item. Its problems? Again:

1) Based on arbitrary number memorizing rather than logic and motorics.

2) It has exceeded it's capabilities. There are a number of new useful commands I would like, that simply doesn't fit into that system. Example:

* F2 - 3 - 8 - 1 (watch north).

* After passing possible threat, stop HMMWV.

* F2 - 4 - 1 (dismount).

* F2 - 2 - 1 (no target). Yes, it won't work while mounted.

* F2 - 4 - 2 - 1 (mount).

That's the complex menu equivalent of getting my HMMWV gunner to watch ahead. I want a new command, possibly scripted, that does:

(gunner vehicle player) doWatch (vehicle player)

but guess what - the number system has no room for it.

3) Fully list based. For some applications, lists are good (maybe the only way even, for i.e. remote action orders). For others (weapon and interaction system), I would prefer a 4x4 quad menu. And lastly, there are some (formations, anything with directions) where I would prefer a 2x8 radial menu.

But, it doesn't matter. I've given up trying to control AI. Not only due to not ever getting the complex command menu (in a speedy enough fashion for my units to stay alive), but also because of the incredible bugs wrt formations and formation directions which ruins all attempts on squad control. Even when you have time to use the complex menu system, and the AI doesn't react (doesn't look in right direction by default, and can't be ordered to), no changes to the complex menu system will have any positive effects anyway.

Some people say the new menu is for new people - well, tough luck, they shouldn't need one. This is a complex game with a steep learning curve and the number system doesn't make it much harder. Eventually even new players have to learn it otherwise they get wiped out. I see no point in disadvantaging even long-time players for the sake of new ones when the new ones have no luxury of not learning it.

I don't consider myself new people ;) There are only a few complex menu commands I really miss during a stressful time, but most of them I tend to use only when it's relatively calm. For actual fighting, I prefer the new system. I would like to be able to control my units during singleplayer at least. For multiplayer, I just stay clear of any missions involving AI control.

[xxbbcc 6]

Feels like I'm trying to impose weapon regulations in the USA and this crowd is it's citizens. The rest of the world (new players) knows it's a good idea, at least to try, but try telling that to mr. Heston (old players), lol :D

I'm not against changing it - I fully realize the drawbacks of the number system, some of which you listed, too. However, I reject any ideas that involve using the mouse buttons in any way to control the command menu. (I have no problem with the action menu, because it doesn't block other actions and to accept it, I can use a key.)

The number system works for you as is? Fine, good for you. It has never worked for me.

It took me a long time to learn it, but I do remember most of the commands automatically. (That is, I couldn't tell you what combination issues a certain command, but my hand knows what to type to get it right.)

Its problems? Again:

1) Based on arbitrary number memorizing rather than logic and motorics.

I don't see how any other menu could be different from this. Please explain, but keep in mind, anything that relies on the mouse is unacceptable. Most letter and symbol keys are already taken (even some Shift or Ctrl combinations.)

2) It has exceeded it's capabilities. There are a number of new useful commands I would like, that simply doesn't fit into that system.

Indeed, this is a problem. I don't, however, see any solution at the moment, other than introducing Shift and Ctrl variants of the numbers.

That's the complex menu equivalent of getting my HMMWV gunner to watch ahead. I want a new command, possibly scripted, that does:

(gunner vehicle player) doWatch (vehicle player)

This should not be in the default command menu at all. Maybe the game should have a way of introducing user-defined bindings, when a key gets bound to a script command. It'll be flat out impossible to get a command for all possible needs so a compromise will have to be found, one way or another.

3) Fully list based. For some applications, lists are good (maybe the only way even, for i.e. remote action orders). For others (weapon and interaction system), I would prefer a 4x4 quad menu. And lastly, there are some (formations, anything with directions) where I would prefer a 2x8 radial menu.

If these menus would be controlled by the keyboard, I see no advantage (if there's some, let me know.) If they'd be controlled by the mouse, it's a no go.

I'm not in love with the number system out of nostalgia or because I learned it already. I, too, realize it's clunky and it's fairly limited. If a better control system can be made, I'm all for it,as long as a new system doesn't interfere with the rest of the game. The current (A2) system does, in an infuriatingly daft way.

I played A1 a short while ago to see how exactly the control system worked and I was blown away - A1 is so much more comfortable to use, it's unbeliavable. It's also MUCH faster from a controlling point of view.

[dm 9]

I have not yet found a mouse without a nervous mouse wheel click - means that when I try to place a satchel, I end up blowing up the previous one, just because the mouse wheel decided it was a good idea to roll when I pressed.

Get better mice? I have a G500 and with the ratchet-roll enabled I never experience "nervous mouse wheel click".

I would much rather accidentally perform an action through errant mouse wheel clicks than I would through errant command menu popups linked to the left mouse button.

Having what is essentially your trigger also perform ALL other actions (be it commanding, entering/exiting/moving around in a vehicle, detonating explosives, dropping/picking up equipment and even opening/closing doors) is a VERY poor design choice :(

Credit where its due tho, at least you can un-map the left-click retardedness. You cant force the command menu to be hidden tho :(

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I've tried them "all". Maybe it's just me being seriously more scared and nervous than everybody else, I don't know. :p But mousewheel click for action select is a no go. It's probably configurable, don't think I ever touched it.

@xxbbcc:

Sorry, all my attempts are mouse based. You'd have to stay with the number system and avoid mine (which doesn't interfere). Pressing the wrong button (when you have to move your hand up and down on the keyboard) is for me at least, very frequent. That's why I want mouse based, although using the scroll wheel would work too (takes more time obviously, but doesn't steal mouse input, user configurable).

If these menus would be controlled by the keyboard, I see no advantage (if there's some, let me know.) If they'd be controlled by the mouse, it's a no go.

The possible input solutions as I see them:

1) Compass action, basically a right mouse button drag and release. The most powerful and easy to use in my view (I use this in an application). I don't think this is possible today though. Disables mouse look.

2) Mouse click select, where you move the mouse to the item and click on it. This is how normal dialogs works today. Not as smooth as option 1, by a long shot, but would have to be how we experiment with it for now. Disables mouse look.

3) Scroll wheel, where you scroll to whatever you want and left mouse button click or hit enter or whatever. Does not disable mouse look.

4) Numpad keys, where it works as todays numeric keys. Enter to select. Doesn't disable mouse look, but I guess most would use right hand for this anyway. It would "work" for a 2x8 compass, but not so much for a 4x4 quad (rectangle) or 4x4 star (diamond).

Normal numeric keys would be either using the old system (if you preferred that, as the resulting "code sequence" would be different in the new system), or it could be freed and used for weapon selecting, as have been discussed in other threads.

The drawbacks:

1) Ugly and intrusive. Yes probably. But for the new guy, helpful and informative. But I prefer focus on actually being able to command. And you should have the option to change to the old system. Under no circumstances should any of this be forced, as it would be an experiment, and getting a control GUI right for something this complex isn't done over night.

2) Loss of mouse focus. You could set it up for numerical key control only, or mouse wheel based. Personally I think that would be clunky, for me. I would prefer loss of mouse focus in order to select what I need almost instantly (motoric memory), rather than reading up and down some list of items.

This should not be in the default command menu at all.

Why? I really think it should. Why are there commands in there to watch directions, but not stop it? Naturally it is 2-1 Cancel Target that should be updated to work with vehicle gunners to stop watching a direction, but when it's not, I most def. would want my command to do it.

But, again. It doesn't have to happen at all. Let the old system stay and have no updates on it. But, I would still like access to the number commands so I can execute them (i.e. flank left) via script commands. That is the most pressing issue.

I'm getting ideas on yet another method right now though... :p

[kklownboy 43]

I've tried them "all". ...

Mouse "action" is also a product of your FrameRate. Bad FPS will be a issue, but that is the skill of a tierone Demo/SF/ badboy, you cant make that mistake...Skillz and Frames go together.

It would be really nice if it was a option(OT)

[xxbbcc 6]

Pressing the wrong button (when you have to move your hand up and down on the keyboard) is for me at least, very frequent.

Heh, ok, so this is really two different worlds then. For me, I almost never select the wrong button and I rarely even look at what I press. I don't use the default key layout, though - I heavily customized it back in OFP and I use the same since then with some minor changes/updates for new features.

I literally cannot imagine anything being faster than the keyboard system, although - as you hint at it - it wouldn't have to be the "old OFP" system. I only keep referring to it because most other key combinations are already taken, so numbers are pretty much the only group left that can be dedicated to this purpose.

1) Compass action, basically a right mouse button drag and release. The most powerful and easy to use in my view (I use this in an application). I don't think this is possible today though. Disables mouse look.

2) Mouse click select, where you move the mouse to the item and click on it. This is how normal dialogs works today. Not as smooth as option 1, by a long shot, but would have to be how we experiment with it for now. Disables mouse look.

Plus disables whatever is assigned to right click - to me it's hold breath and reveal (announce) target. These are crucial to me and I wouldn't be willing to trade these for anything.

Something like this could only work if the action is blocking - that is, the game is suspended while you're doing something. (The inventory is different.)

1) Ugly and intrusive. Yes probably. But for the new guy, helpful and informative.

Not to be an ass but I really couldn't care less about the "new guy". It's not that I don't remember how hard it was back in OFP to learn the control system, but as I said, the game is complex with or without the controls, they might as well just bite the bullet and learn it with everything else.

2) Loss of mouse focus. You could set it up for numerical key control only, or mouse wheel based.

I would totally agree to an option where the control system could be switched between keyboard-only, mouse-only or even a combination, if someone prefers that. I have nothing against giving options to people, but I want a command system that in no way interferes with action in the game, since even a 1-second delay could mean getting shot. The current menu is a recipe for (in-game) disaster.

I really think it should. Why are there commands in there to watch directions, but not stop it? Naturally it is 2-1 Cancel Target that should be updated to work with vehicle gunners to stop watching a direction, but when it's not, I most def. would want my command to do it.

This is not a control issue, it's a bug in the current control system that should be fixed. If a new control system would be buggy, you'd have similar issues there, too.

And having a custom key-binding system for user-defined script commands would be nice, I agree.

[4 IN 1 0]

For me, I do not want to use my mouse to operate the number menu, I already have ten little key on the top of my keybroad to do the job, quick menu is a good concept with fault design, It block the old number menu and most of the content inside it is not what I need in most case, to make matter worse it bind with the mouse and cannot be change, while back in the old days it only handle some basic thing that is as caveman as possible: LMB for issusing move/attack command, ALT+LMB issus watch direction command.

Edited October 26, 2010 by 4 IN 1

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I was thinking more of a combination. In a compass setup, it's key to open a particular compass (but natural keys rather than the numbers - f fits formations better than 8, s fits scan better than 3-8 or whatever it is), and mouseclick/mousedrag/numkeys (whatever, see above) to select item. You get access to more menus if the game needs it, and each compass has a maximum og 16 slots rather than 9.

[xxbbcc 6]

In theory it may not be a bad idea but I'd like to see where you find a free group of 16 keys for this purpose. My keyboard is basically taken - almost all keys are assigned something. Once you start introducing Shift or Ctrl combinations, things get a lot more uncomfortable.

Also, the nested menus will lose the connection with the letters assigned to them - 'F' for formation opens a submenu but in this submenu 'F' will be used for Compact Column. So the advantage you get is minimal at best.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Well, you could still use number keys if you wanted to :) I tend to like ctrl qualifier, pluss I want to free up the number keys to a new updated and unified weapon interaction system, since the f cycling and action menu combination is also very outdated for these kinds of controls.

But for now, access to execute low level number commands from script would be a good start to allow us to experiment.

[xxbbcc 6]

I tend to like ctrl qualifier

The reason I don't is because I have one hand on the mouse all the time, so most Ctrl/Shift/Alt key combinations are fairly hard to enter.