EA-6B Prowler - WiP by IrishDeviant

[IrishDeviant 10]

Great looking model, I especially like the sharp edges around the tail rather than a simple shading change. I did't know you could use smoothing modifiers like that, I use it to get smooth shape reference on my models but I didn't know you could use it for even more.

By the way how knowledgeable are you on Arma2's engine and such? Just in case you do not know I'll add it here: Most games I'm sure you've seen have their interior and exterior models effected in the same way, so what you see outside is what you see inside..not the case here.

You can have a simple cockpit with little detail on the outside, then in a cargo/pilot/gunner LOD have far more detail, letting you get the best bang for your buck and be performance friendly.

If you already know this then I apologize.

Yeah, smoothing modifiers are very useful if you know how to use them. They do have limitations, and they can easily push you're poly count to high, so you have to be careful how you use them. On the tail of that ViperJet, it's a combination of vertex weight and edge creasing. Those are ways of manipulating the Catmull Clark smoothing algorithm. But, that ViperJet is nearly 350k tris. And, the cockpit and exterior are one model.

That model meant for graphic design visualization. When it's done, it will get posted for sale on sites like 3DO2.com, and the3Dstudio.com. So, for instance, a luxury automotive company may wish to use the model as an example of a wealthy businessman parking his Merc on the tarmac and hopping into his ultra sporty 2-seat business jet. Or, an architectural firm may wish to use the model to park outside of a new modern hanger design, or for a new airport design, etc.

As far as modeling for video games, I'm well aware of LoD's. For ex, on the Prowler, there will be a cockpit LoD for each seat. For the pilot, there will be a detailed cockpit area, but the co-pilot area will have slightly fewer polys, and the rear seats will only have detail where the pilot is able to see by looking over his shoulder. And, the same for the rest of the seats. In all, there will be 4 cockpit LoD's, as well as the exterior LoD's.

---------- Post added at 01:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------

What aircraft is that? I'm viewing from my phone, seems a tiny bit like the hawk but I can't be sure. ;)

If you're talking about the one in the screenshots posted just above, it's called a ViperJet by Viper Aircraft. It's a private 2-seat jet that is sold in kit form. You either have to build it yourself, or take it to one of the certified builders. I think the total price to have it built is somewhere around a $1 Million.

Edited September 30, 2010 by IrishDeviant

[IrishDeviant 10]

Updated screenshots in main post: Starting over with new drawings (a special thanks to Gedis for finding these for me) It would have taken longer to modify my existing progress to the new drawings than it will take to start from scratch. And, I didn't have much done anyway. The reason it looks a bit messy is because I have all the layers visible. While working, I hide everything I'm not using. There are top/bottom/side/front/rear, as well as cross sections for fuselage/wings/tail/. I can't thank Gedis enough, these will make a huge difference in the quality of the final product. Thanks again!

[bigpickle 0]

really looking forward to this baby, will definitely make some Nam modders dreams come true as well that's for sure.

[IrishDeviant 10]

really looking forward to this baby, will definitely make some Nam modders dreams come true as well that's for sure.

lol Well I actually have a list of about 25 or so aircraft that I really want to model. It just comes down to finding the time. However, there are a few Vietnam era fighters/bombers that I've been wanting to model for some time. My focus right now is 'currently in service' aircraft, but I'll eventually get around to the retro birds.

Also, I've been taking a closer look at the differences between the EA-6B and the A-6... Typically I don't like doing modified models. Meaning taking one version and chopping it into another version. I just prefer starting from scratch. But, the EA-6B is really just an A-6 with a stretched nose. There are some various little things here and there that are different, but I think I can manage to do both versions fairly easily. Just have to see how it goes.

[TomatoArden 0]

I looked up both as well and I think the EA-6B is somewhat wider than the A-6 actually, as it has a crew of 4 (1 pilot and 3(!) electronic warfare officers) in 2 rows of 2, whereas the A-6 is just two guys in Tandem, so youd have to stretch the model sideways a bit.

[Dr. Horrible 10]

My focus right now is 'currently in service' aircraft,

Do you count the Tomcat as 'currently in service'...?

[TomatoArden 0]

Technically I think its in service as an aggressor aircraft to simulate Iranian tomcats in training missions. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[IrishDeviant 10]

Technically I think its in service as an aggressor aircraft to simulate Iranian tomcats in training missions. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The F-14 has been completely decommissioned in the US. As far as I know, there is only one left on display at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida. Typically, F-4 Phantom's are used as drones for adversarial training due the massive number of them that were produced. (there were 5,195 F-4 Phantom's produced, and only 712 F-14 Tomcat's)

Iran still has an unknown number of F-14's in service. Originally they were sold around 80, but as of 2009, they only had 44, of which only 20 were operational. ...The US decided to shred the rest of the American fleet to prevent parts making their way to Iran. After the Revolution, the Iranian Air Force was largely dismantled. There are still a large number of aircraft and able bodied pilots, but it's nothing of what it used to be under the Shah. Of course then, the Emperor was in good (well, decent) relations with the US, and thus had access to much of our technology. ...Now with sanctions and the arms embargo against the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Iranian Air Force essentially has to make due with what they have. Presumably, the Iranians are producing their own replacement parts for the last of their F-14's, but even under the best of circumstances, the F-14 was a very, very high maintenance aircraft. The biggest factor in it's decommission here in the States was the cost to keep them running.

So, after a completely unnecessary and long winded history lesson, to answer your question, no I don't consider it to be in Active Service. If any of the Iranian F-14's are still actually combat effective, it's only a short matter of time before they age beyond repair. (at least not without parts, which we're obviously not going to sell them)

It's a shame too... The F-14 Tomcat was my favorite fighter jet.

Edited September 30, 2010 by IrishDeviant

[Dr. Horrible 10]

It's a shame too... The F-14 Tomcat was my favorite fighter jet.

Mine too. Oh well, then Ill continue to use the ported version. It has new textures, only the cockpit is still OFP style.

But rather such a Tomcat as no Tomcat.

[TRexian 0]

Hey Irish - and I hope not to derail this with another 'request' post - but have you considered the F-5? :) Still operational, lots of variants all over the world, great little multirole a/c.

Anyway, I don't fly very many fast movers in A2 (that's what FreeFalcon is for) ;) but I will give this one a try. You have excellent modeling skills. :bounce3:

[IrishDeviant 10]

Hey Irish - and I hope not to derail this with another 'request' post - but have you considered the F-5? :) Still operational, lots of variants all over the world, great little multirole a/c.

Anyway, I don't fly very many fast movers in A2 (that's what FreeFalcon is for) ;) but I will give this one a try. You have excellent modeling skills. :bounce3:

Yeah, no worries. I just don't want the thread to turn into a hundred pages of 'will you make this for me'. lol First, let me state my priorities. 1: Expand my portfolio, 2: make aircraft that I personally want to use in Arma II. I basically justify my time spent modeling on mods by adding those models to my portfolio of work. And, I'm not really willing to spend this much time modelling an aircraft I wouldn't be interested in flying in Arma II.

So, to answer your question, the F-5 Freedom Fighter has a very simplistic shape which wouldn't highlight much of my modeling ability, therefore wouldn't be a significant addition to my portfolio. And, I really wouldn't see much of a use for it in Arma II. The EA-6B for ex, it's an aircraft that I've actually said to myself during missions, "I really wish I had that aircraft right about now". lol It's something that has a purpose and a practical use. The F-5 would just be a novelty aircraft.

Having said all of that, I do often get bored with projects while I'm working on them, and will find small side projects to take a break from whatever it is I'm working on. So, I may add the F-5 to my list of small projects in case I get frustrated with the EA-6B. (it's good to take a break from models as they will drive you absolutely insane.)

Although, if I model the F-5, it would just be 1 LoD level of the mesh, a UVW Mapping, and a basic texture template. At that point, I'd just release it to the community to do whatever with. Essentially, I wouldn't want to spend much time on it.

[TRexian 0]

hehe

Dude, having dabbled in modeling (nothing big), it seems to me that a lod1 uvmapped and texture template would be like 90% of the hard work! :D

Good luck with your efforts! I am seriously impressed with you.

[Dr. Horrible 10]

hehe

Dude, having dabbled in modeling (nothing big), it seems to me that a lod1 uvmapped and texture template would be like 90% of the hard work! :D

.

Tell me about it. During OFP I was quite into Oxygen, made some nice stuff. (Some for myself, some got released with the Warhammer 40.000 mod mostly).

At the end I even was getting into the scripts more, I could make my models open their doors etc. And textures? Well they are just textures....Just get yourself a nice open source example, and then copy & paste...:rolleyes:

But now in ArmA II? RVMAT? Lightproxys? UVmapping? What? After my first five models looked like shit or glowing orbs even after months of testing, I gave up on it. Im just no into texturing :(

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Wow, nice plane. :)

Had 'flight of the intruder' on my Amiga500. Ah the memories.

Oh, and ur screenies are > 100kb. Just saying.

[IrishDeviant 10]

--will reduce image sizes in main post--

hehe

Dude, having dabbled in modeling (nothing big), it seems to me that a lod1 uvmapped and texture template would be like 90% of the hard work! :D

Good luck with your efforts! I am seriously impressed with you.

Actually, it's closer to about 45% in terms of time. The basic modeling of the aircraft is the easy part. The unwrap is time consuming if you're actually trying to do a good job, and by 'texture template', all I mean is a 'render to texture' of the mesh. Just a basic outline for someone else to come in and actually make the texture. ...Of course, then you have the cockpit (which I wasn't including in the LoD1 mesh stated above), and detailing, and texturing, and normals, specular, etc etc etc etc etc ...All that stuff is the time consuming part, the model, well that's easy:

Case in point, this took me 45 minutes. It isn't the greatest model in the world, just wanted to show that modeling doesn't, or at least shouldn't, take very long. ...Also, 3D modeling is 10% skill in modeling, 90% skill in using the tools, and specifically the right tools. If you have a good 3D app, and know how to use it well, then you get a lot more done. And what you make looks a lot better.

[TRexian 0]

Awesome stuff, but I have to call you out on one point (in a friendly way). :)

Also, 3D modeling is 10% skill in modeling, 90% skill in using the tools, and specifically the right tools.

I grew up around artists. That's like saying good art is more about knowing how to use the paintbrush. :D Yes, it is a part of it, maybe even a significant part of it. But, IMNSHO, the overwhelmingly more important part is to have talent.

You, sir, have talent... by the bucketful.

But, I think we agree that the basic model is relatively easy compared to doing the rest of it. And, since I'm more on the scripting/config'ing side, the best model in the world is only half the equation of getting it in-game. :D

PS Keep that F-5 model for your 'downtime'... I'd love to see it in-game, even without a cockpit.

[IrishDeviant 10]

Awesome stuff, but I have to call you out on one point (in a friendly way). :)

I grew up around artists. That's like saying good art is more about knowing how to use the paintbrush. :D Yes, it is a part of it, maybe even a significant part of it. But, IMNSHO, the overwhelmingly more important part is to have talent.

You, sir, have talent... by the bucketful.

But, I think we agree that the basic model is relatively easy compared to doing the rest of it. And, since I'm more on the scripting/config'ing side, the best model in the world is only half the equation of getting it in-game. :D

PS Keep that F-5 model for your 'downtime'... I'd love to see it in-game, even without a cockpit.

lol, well, we'll have to agree to disagree on the 'art' part of it. For ex, I couldn't model a human, or a sculpture, or anything abstract, even if my life depended on it. That's where really good 3-view drawings come in. Calling that art is like tracing a picture and turning it in to your art teacher as if you've mastered the art of drawing. lol

I get what you're saying, but modeling mechanical objects with schematic type drawings isn't art, it's a technical process... The art is in the textures, normals, specular, etc. This area is very much about being an artist regardless of what tools you have.

Oh, and as for keeping that model, when I get around to modelling an F-5 I'll start from scratch and do it properly. This model isn't worth using. I just kind of rushed through it to make a point. ...Basic outline with low poly mesh, a brief bit of sculpting to get the lines where they need to be, crease the edges where lines need to be sharp, add smoothing modifier, use boolean to imprint outline of cockpit and control surfaces, detach cockpit and control surfaces, done. ;)

Edited September 30, 2010 by IrishDeviant

[TRexian 0]

(This is me agreeing to disagree...) :)

I've done box modeling like that. I have a personal-use-only big huge jet. Probably the biggest thing I ever modeled and skinned. Basically, your 45 minutes took me 3 years. And it STILL sucks! :D

All art is a process. Some artists prefer portraits, others landscapes. Doesn't matter what you don't like to do, only matters that what you do, you do well. I think you don't give yourself credit.

NOW GET BACK TO WORK! :D

[IrishDeviant 10]

(This is me agreeing to disagree...) :)

I've done box modeling like that. I have a personal-use-only big huge jet. Probably the biggest thing I ever modeled and skinned. Basically, your 45 minutes took me 3 years. And it STILL sucks! :D

All art is a process. Some artists prefer portraits, others landscapes. Doesn't matter what you don't like to do, only matters that what you do, you do well. I think you don't give yourself credit.

NOW GET BACK TO WORK! :D

lol... Alright, like I said, I understand your point. And, I'm not suggesting I don't do what I do well. I've been doing it long enough, I'd hope I don't suck at it. But the point I'm trying to make, and maybe should have articulated better, was in reference to using Oxygen/O2 editors to model. Programs like Maya, Max, Modo, Rhino, XSI, etc, etc, all make like much easier. Personally, I use Maya... Only Maya and I are having a disagreement right now :mad:, so I'm using Max. Having the right tools makes it easy. Sure, there's an artistic element to it, but it's more engineering than art. At least the modeling aspect of it. From there, it becomes purely artistic.

Nevertheless, you're not the only one that spends years on models. I have a mountain of unfinished models sitting in my projects folder... Rule #1, don't start working on a model unless you're being paid to do it, or you really REALLY want that model for something. (like Arma) If you break Rule #1, you'll never finish the model. I have never made a single model that didn't at some point make me bash my head against my desk. And, if you're not motivated enough to finish it, then it will simply pile up in the "don't really give a shit" folder.

[IrishDeviant 10]

Here, just a few examples of models that I've never finished:

B2B:

Horton 229:

F-15C:

See my point?

[TRexian 0]

hehe

My friend. I think that you posting those pics has proven my assertion that you are a very talented man. :)

I beg you to continue to disagree, though. :D

[IrishDeviant 10]

hehe

My friend. I'm think that you posting those pics has proven my assertion that you are a very talented man. :)

I beg you to continue to disagree, though. :D

lmao, I'm not disagreeing that I can model... I'm questioning your opinion as to what the defining skill set is behind it. ;) ...by the way, some day I'm actually going to finish some of my aircraft models that found themselves in the black hole that is my "3D_Projects" folder. lol But, the EA-6B and my ViperJet model have the priority for the time being, so those files will just continue to languish, growing digital rust.

Oh, here's one I actually started for Arma II and never got around to finishing: (though this one is on my short list to get done soon)

USS Dallas:

Edited September 30, 2010 by IrishDeviant

[IrishDeviant 10]

lmao...Just to prove I actually do finish models:

AGM-88:

[M9ACE 0]

The F-14 has been completely decommissioned in the US. As far as I know, there is only one left on display at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida.

There are other F-14s on display in the US.

[Dr. Horrible 10]

Ah the MiG-28....Now you have to make a F-14 to go with the Prowler ;)

EDIT: We got a Nimitz Carrier soon, but played "Topgun" on a Nimitz class or on the Enterprise....?