The aftermath of erfurt

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Stoiber fordert Verbot von Killerspielen am Computer

Hamburg (Reuters) - Unions-Kanzlerkandidat Edmund Stoiber hat nach dem Amoklauf von Erfurt ein Verbot gewaltverherrlichender Computerspiele gefordert.

Soiber sagte der Zeitung "Welt am Sonntag", die so genannten Killerspiele müssten verboten werden: "Was wir jetzt dringend brauchen, ist eine größere Intoleranz gegenüber der Darstellung und Verherrlichung von Gewalt." Ein 19-Jähriger hatte am Freitag in einem Erfurter Gymnasium 16 Menschen und dann sich selbst erschossen. Er war von der Schule verwiesen worden.

Der Vizepräsident des Berufsverbandes Deutscher Psychologen, Uwe Wetter, erklärte, die Zunahme von Gewaltpräsentationen im Fernsehen und im Video führe zu einer Konditionierung potenzieller Täter. Sie versuchten, die auf dem Bildschirm gesehene virtuelle Gewalt zu übertreffen. Der Psychologe Bernd Jötten sagte, das Training durch interaktive Videospiele schaffe zusätzliche Schießkompetenz

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taken from yahoo.de

What is says, basically, is that Edmund Stoiber wants even tighter controls on violent computer games! Apparently, the suspect liked playing FPS games... In the meanwhile, Uwe Wetter (vice-president of the Psychologists union) declared that the increasing display of violence in games and on TV causes a conditioning of potential suspects!!They are trying to top the virtual violence on a screen. Bernd Joetten, another psychologist, says that the practice through interactive videogames enhances one's shooting abilities!!!!!

Is it just me or is this the biggest load of horseshit since the reunification!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?! Sure, I am gonna learn how to shoot by playing quake The fact that he was a member of a gun club (only way to legally own a firearm) has NOTHING to do with his "shooting abilities" And he went on a rampage 'cos he played Quake and SOF and OFP, right? THe fact he was expelled has NOTHING to do with it....

load of bollox if u ask me

[red oct 2]

in my opinion, when i hear people blame the media, i think of it as just a scape goat that parents use so that they wont have to admit that they as a parent failed to involve them selves in their childs affairs as what a good parent should do, over here in the U.S. games have age ratings that are done by the "E.S.R.B." (dont ask what it means i forgot and probaly spelled it wrong ) some stores over here will not sell a "M" rated game "M" being mature rated game meant for people 18+ age group to a 10 or 11 year old. if a parent wants to buy a game like this for their 10 or 9 year old child well thats fine with me, but if they start learning bad things from this game, than its pretty clear its their own fault. if people would only use intellegent judgement about this kinda thing, there wouldnt be so much of this problem goin around dont ya think?

[Satchel 0]

Lol,

it´s really pathetic, but just as expected, if no answers are at hand it´s blamed on computergames as usual.

How many kids are playing games that have an extreme violence factor, either displaying simulated killing of people, monsters or whatever. How many of those are potential murderers, how many are committing crimes, the ratio isn´t even worth mentioning, because it would have a percentage that is way sub 1%- not even taken into account that it´s more than unlikely someone gets inspired by a computergame or even to prove it.

Computergames or movies alone make no killer, you have to be in a fragile or sick mental state before mixing reality with fiction, in other words educational, social and political levels have failed before it comes to something like this.

Stoiber has a wooden stick in his ass anyway, ultra conservative idiot.

Instead of banning computergames he should think about what can be done on the social and educational level to help people reintegrate that were rejected by our system, i.e. someone that dropped out of school, giving him perspectives and a chance to get back in. Also the pressure on todays kids to bring performance and good ratings in school is extremely high, especially in the east as there are little qualified jobs and many potential candidates, only the best of them will get a chance to get a good job preferably in western germany.

I assume the amok run was not about computergames but revenge for the 19 year olds screwed life he blamed his former teachers for. The ninja suit and weapons were most certainly not the cause for the crime- that would be really pathetic, but rather a way to project and canalize his hatred onto those he held responsible for his misery. It was not caused by a computergame but the failure of our system and politics, that simple. However that all doesn´t speak for the shooter, he must have been mentally sick anyway- but i´m sure the terrible amok run could have been prevented by a better system.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

He is a good guy this stoiber, but we are ahead of the great election. Stoiber has to mobilise his mayor age-group which is 40+, so I guess it is nothing else than a strategy.

Ah, and since our media celebrate any happening like this for days we shouldnt be surprised that "attention seekers" choose this kind of exit-scenario: AMOK

[Guest]

I think that computer games and movies might be to blame. Now before you kill me, hear me out, I'll be brief.

It is a fact that we see a lot of "people" getting "killed" on TV. Computer games, that have better and better graphics and we get used to "killing" huge numbers of "people". Now, I am saying "killing", and "people" since any normal person knows that CG's and movies have very little to do with reallity.

These kids were obviously not normal and could not make that distinction. They were unhappy and frustrated by situation/nature/whatever, and computer games and movies gave them the idea that shooting around was a possible solution. That and the fact that they were insane and could not tell right from wrong equals killings.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 27 2002,15:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think that computer games and movies might be to blame. Now before you kill me, hear me out, I'll be brief.

It is a fact that we see a lot of "people" getting "killed" on TV. Computer games, that have better and better graphics and we get used to "killing" huge numbers of "people". Now, I am saying "killing", and "people" since any normal person knows that CG's and movies have very little to do with reallity.

These kids were obviously not normal and could not make that distinction. They were unhappy and frustrated by situation/nature/whatever, and computer games and movies gave them the idea that shooting around was a possible solution. That and the fact that they were insane and could not tell right from wrong equals killings.<span id='postcolor'>

I agree (and will be shot too)! teenagers look for idols, for stars they can admire and follow. For some it is a famous soccer player, for others a film hero, but nowadays more and more children are fascinated by this virtual world, which is very bloody indeed and not the best "place" for children to dream of!

Still, I think it has less effect on the children than recent changes in the society. I mean would this guy have had the same idea without having heard of the Columbine incident? I mean why the hell a shotgun, which is such an untypical gun here (but to be seen in every action film).

But lets not forget that a 19 year old  has went throught the whole process, being born in a communistic environment, then transformed into a capitalistic one, with ever changing ideologies. Of course those students are East-Germans are freaks.  

And about gun-laws. The guy owned this gun legally (a shotgun?) because he was in a shooting-club. Actually he would have killed more if not a teacher would have come up to him pulled the mask away and would have said: "Robert, it doesnt make any sense anymore..but if you want shoot me!" Then he pushed him into a classroom and locked the door. Where the guy shot himself. Oh, he had ammo for more killings indeed (about 500 more bullets)

[Satchel 0]

Just found on Spiegel, they have a picture of the shooter:

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Fuck you Satchel, I was just ready to post it.damm...grrrrroarrrr. Okay, der Punkt geht an dich!!

Anyway Satchel, do you know this site for quick info-overview

Netzzeitung.de

[Satchel 0]

Didn´t know till you posted that link Albert, thanks.

Normally i did check Reuters, CNN and Spiegel for news seperately.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Reuters! Yeah, thats smart, didnt think of that yet!

[Wobble 1]

yay.. first they attack the already strict gunlaws.. which had absolutley 0% impact on the event in any way.

now lets attack the video games..

[Tex -USMC- 0]

*cough*

And you thought stupidity was a disease limited to the USA...

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ April 27 2002,21<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yay.. first they attack the already strict gunlaws.. which had absolutley 0% impact on the event in any way.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes of course. If the kid hadn't had a gun he wouldnt have been able to kill 18 people.  And.. btw.. it was a legally owned gun.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

now lets attack the video games..

<span id='postcolor'>

No, you are right. The obvious reason was the kid wanted to be American, and shooting around in his schools was his idea of achieving it....yeah, that must me it.

Computer games, movies and other cultural aspect influence greatly. You have to be a moron not to understand that. He didn't kill those people because of video games, but they are a cultural aspect that contributed. The same is with guns. The guns are not to blame in homicides, but they contribute  by providing means.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Can you tell me a comparable incident that occured before guns (revolver/ colt) were invented?

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 27 2002,05:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bernd Joetten, another psychologist, says that the practice through interactive videogames enhances one's shooting abilities!!!!!<span id='postcolor'>

I must be quite the marksman by now

Yes, this is indeed the load of shit it has been described as. Society will never stop looking for scape goats; it just doesnt want to be blamed for a murderous rampage.

It has to be acknowledged sometime, that the people who do these things have serious issues that go way beyond the sphere of influence that a mere computer game would have to offer.

[rpc007 0]

heh i play shooting games all the time, and i just went out to the shooting range and i sucked

[Wobble 1]

its obviousley videogames

I wonder what games Hitler played..

blame games.. blame guns.. but dont dare blame the the sick fucking idiot that actually perpetuated, orchestrated and carried out the act.. god know he is the LAST person to blame... yes yes.. he is the biggest victim of all.. ohha ahhh!

what horseshit.

If the kid hadn't had a gun he wouldnt have been able to kill 18 people

bullshit

if he wasnt a deprived, crazed pshycho he wouldent have been able to kill 18 people..

the typical bullshit as usual.. totally ignore the actual killer and place the blame on the weapon he chooses to use..

such a pathetic idea.. forgoe actually dealing withe the people who carry out the crime.. just blame whatever weapon they choose to use..

im sure the Holocaust was the fault of the incinerator and gas chamber.. not the Nazis.. right?

[SKULLS_Viper 0]

Well, thats kinda what happend in the columbine shooting.They found these kids playing Doom, thats how they got the idea.

All though i disagree with giving you ability to shoot better.I mean playing a computer game, your not holding a 20 pound gun, which could make it harder to shoot in real life.It requires skill to shoot.In games, you dont need skill.You dont have to align the front and back gun sight, to shoot.I mean in real life, if you dont align the front or back gun sight properly, the bullet could miss its target by 10 feet or if you breath , the same thig could happen.In Operation Flashpoint, its already aligned and ready to fire.

So they should change there idea about games giving you the abilty to aim better.I mean like this actuall interactive game (i cant remeber what its called) which is basicly a gun and a projector(which puts an image of a deer onto our wall), i could see that giving you better skill.Cause you are basicly holding a real gun(not really) which you have to align the gun sight and they are selling these, to even kids younger then 7 years old.

[LordZach 0]

the parents are also to blame. i've been playing FPS since wolfenstein (was in 1st grade i think) and i've never grabbed some guns and went and shot up my school. why? because my parents raised me well, taught me right from wrong, and supported me. if playing FPS made you shoot up your school, i don't think any of us would be here.

[Wobble 1]

school shootings in the US are blamed for lax gun laws.. now a more horrifice shooting in germany than in the US.. germany has super strict gun laws compared to the US... so we have 1 country with lax gun laws (so some say) and one with much stricter gun laws.. and the same even has happened in both.. so maby.. just maby gun laws are not actually a factor in shit like this..

I see it like a disease.. like cancer.. if you try one treatment.. and it does nothing for the disease.. then you try something else.. but for some reason everyone keeps wanting to use the same treatment for this.. gun control.. gun control.... it is yet to work anywhere but they keep trying it.. shit, maby thats not the answer.. afterall wow..

maby it would be better to actually raise yer kids correctly (that goes for everyone) maby when little bobby tells people hes gonna kill people you should fucking listen to them.. maby people should actually act responsably..

naaa.. why do that.. too complicated.. lets just blame guns for everything.. that way we can feel good about ourselves..

idiots

I can guarentee you.. if I went to germany.. or anywhere in the world and spoke the language.. within a week I could secure myself an ILLEGAL firearm

anyone could.. thats just the way it is..

if law abiding, mentally stable, morally competent people were doing all the shooting.. then gun laws *may* help.. but thats not the case.. 90% of the time the people doing the shooting are either

A: underage

B: mentally unstable

C: emotionally unstable

D: have a criminal record

current gun laws in germany and the US would prohibit a person with any if these trates from legally purchasing a firearm.. but they still get them'

so.. how will changine gun laws that are already totally bypassed change anything..  it wont.

and the "there will be fewer guns" argument.. is at best pathetic.. there will ALWAYS be guns for the taking.. illegally or not..  just like drugs..

right now if ALL gun production in the entire world stopped.. there are already enough firearms in circulation.. yet to be sold sitting in warehouses to adaquitly supply the worlds demand for around 8 years..

and those are LEGALLY produced and tagged guns..

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LordZach @ April 27 2002,23:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the parents are also to blame.  <span id='postcolor'>

I got an issue with that statement. The guy was 19. How about a plain simple "he was a disturbed, homicidal asshole"? Do we not have those anymore in this wonderful Politically Correct world?

Funny, in the old days shit like this would likely be blamed on satan and pagan religions. Now it's "movies and videogames" and "His parents didn't love him enough". No one likes to look at the fact that some human beings are just fucked.

[LordZach 0]

all i'm saying is it's sure as hell a contributing factor that i have NEVER heard the media or governments mention. there are many contributing factors most of which nobody will ever understand.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LordZach @ April 28 2002,00:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">all i'm saying is it's sure as hell a contributing factor that i have NEVER heard the media or governments mention.  there are many contributing factors most of which nobody will ever understand.<span id='postcolor'>

Of course! It makes perfect sense, there are more voters who are parents than there are voters creating movies or videogames. If you were a politician picking a scapegoat what would you pick?

[LordZach 0]

obviously you can't expect the polititions to do something that PI but i would think someone in the media would catch on after awhile.

[Wobble 1]

""he often fought with teachers and had "bad relations with his parents.""

WARNING

"""Hartung said Steinhaeuser shortly before the attack "everyone will know my name and I will be famous."""

WARNING

but lets ignore this.. its not important.. right?

"""American conditions' have reached us. We cannot let these excesses of violence become a part of our daily life"""

fucking idiot.. like school shootings are a day to day occurance here..

"""Germany has tight gun control laws, but about 7.2 million legal firearms are in German homes, registered for use in sport and hunting or kept by collectors, the Interior Ministry said."""

they say this like its some sort of problem...

it would be funny if it wasnt so pathetic how quickly someone can jump on the antigun bandwagon out of fear that they will be handed (possably their fair share) of blaim for something.

the same ole same ole..  he wa crazy, there were warning signs, he had an emotional problem, he told people he was gonna do it.. .. yepo.. clearly this is a gun's fault..

if I went nutts and broke into a daycare and killed 20 kids with a claw hammer.. would you blame hammers? because thats exactly what the case is with theses stupid shootings