roshnak
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Everything posted by roshnak
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There are times when it is significantly more difficult to do so, such as at night or in pitched battle. This style of bar is obviously not perfect by any means, but even in that state it would allow players to get a rough idea of their fatigue level significantly more quickly than being forced to listen for audio cues. Obviously the bar I presented was an extreme example, but don't you think there is a middle ground to be found between my extreme example not providing enough feedback and your example of such a bar providing pinpoint accuracy? I am obviously not suggesting that Arma 3 literally use a battery life indicator for representing fatigue levels. The point was that there is no reason to believe that a stamina bar must give an exceptionally accurate report of the player's fatigue state. This is not a good analogy. Shooting is a learned skill. Being able to tell when you are tired or getting tired is not. Why do you assume that the game giving more feedback about when you are feeling tired and how tired you feel would negate the requirement that players learn to manage their stamina? This is also not a good analogy. I don't know what a drop marker is, but a health bar would convey information that people would not have in the real world. In the real world people don't know that they have taken X amount of damage and will die if they are shot Y more times. This is both unrealistic in the amount of awareness that people have of their injury states and in the way that the human body actually works. Maybe, but none of the rest of the game is designed with that philosophy in mind.
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Sure, but that's not really what we're talking about here. When the game asks players to learn how to counter weapon sway, that's not holding their hands. When the game asks players to learn to manage weapon inertia, that's not holding their hands. Those things can also be learned during the course of normal gameplay. When people are suggesting that players play the game outside of typical mission scenarios with a stamina bar active, either via mods or the Virtual Arsenal, in order to learn to recognize how various audio and visual cues correspond to different fatigue states just to be able to figure out how tired their character is, that is going a bit beyond not constantly holding the player's hand. And I ask again, to what end? How does this improve gameplay or the average player experience? It's not necessarily more realistic. It's certainly not more realistic in all or even most situations. There is reason to believe that it actively hurts some players' understanding of the fatigue and sway system. It doesn't mesh with Bohemia's previous decisions to use UI elements to provide the player with feedback about the state of his or her body such as the weight bar or the stance indicator. And to the people who are arguing that a stamina bar would give an unrealistically detailed depiction of stamina levels: Do you think that this bar gives a very detailed status report?
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This is the problem. If the average player needs some extra element to be able to figure out the system in the first place, then the feedback the game is giving you isn't very good. I think that Machineabuse is probably correct in that many complaints about the fatigue and sway systems are rooted in a lack of understanding of the mechanics of the fatigue system and that better feedback could do a lot to alleviate the problems many players are having with it.
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Why do people keep throwing this kind of thing out there as if it's the only situation people are talking about? Knowing whether your fatigue level is 42% or 50% might not change what decision you make, but knowing if it's 30% or 60% probably will. That is significantly more information than breathing and vignetting.
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The problem with this is that it requires players to test it out in the VR world with a stamina bar in order to tie various visual and audio clues to actual fatigue levels. I would argue that is bad game design. You want the player reacting to the game world and their state within it. Not trying to decipher what their state actually is. Obviously I can't argue with this if it's just your opinion, but at the same time you have to recognize that everyone has their own opinion and opinion alone is not a great argument for including or not including a game feature. I can certainly appreciate the value of that style of feedback, but I also think that it's more suited to exploration or survival type games where those things are kind of the focus of the gameplay. In Arma there is frequently a lot of other stuff going on that the player has to think about. Certainly you can't deny that vignetting is a less than ideal indicator at night or in dark conditions. Or that it may be difficult to hear the sound of your character's breathing over the sound of a gunfight and other players talking in your ear and heavy vehicles moving about. And that if both of those things are going on at once it can be unrealistically difficult to know what our fatigue levels are in the game, since in real life we have the ability to understand what is going on with our bodies beyond just what our eyes and ears tell us, making the current indicators an imperfect solution at best. Also, if you just straight up don't like HUD elements, I imagine you also don't like the stance indicator and turn that off as well. And if that is the case and you are just going to turn off your HUD elements anyway, why even bother arguing against having a stamina bar as long as the other indicators stay in the game? Isn't that just like having stance indicators?
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As in, you could use them to get RotorLib in the stable branch? Almost certianly not.
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While this may be true, it sounds like what you are describing is an exception, not the norm. I sort of feel like you and Bouben are talking about two completely different set of circumstances. The problem is that in Arma 3 it's always difficult to tell what your fatigue level is and how much you have left in the tank. Without a stamina bar, you may be jogging for a few minutes with a heavy load and not have a good idea if you are somewhat tired or very tired or bordering on completely exhausted. People have already brought up arguments for why it can be difficult to take in the cues the game is giving you and understand exactly how they correlate to your fatigue level, as well as how this particular method seems to run counter to Arma 3's standards for displaying the rest of this sort of information. Those are good points and I agree with them. But I have another question: What is the point of making this information so indistinct? How does the game or player benefit from forcing people to experiment to learn how the fatigue system works and how these audio and visual cues sync with fatigue levels? What value does this add to the gameplay? Especially if it's not necessarily realistic in the majority of situations (those in which the player isn't pushing themselves to their absolute limits).
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It may very well seem like a priority to you, but it probably doesn't seem like that to the people who only play PvP and never use AI. What I am saying is that there are other people out there with different perspectives. Yours isn't automatically the right one.
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Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Nope. You are experiencing highly exaggerated effects. Are you running with mods? -
That's not what he said. He said that Arma is not a full fidelity simulation of particular helicopter models. Which I take to mean that you shouldn't expect the Ghosthawk to fly exactly like a Blackhawk, or a Hummingbird to fly exactly like a Littlebird, the Blackfoot to fly exactly like the Commanche, etc. It's not pointless to want to get the flight model closer to full fidelity without actually going all the way to full fidelity. There is no reason this has to be an all-or-nothing situation. It's also important to remember that these are fictional vehicles, and BIS can take some liberties with their flight characteristics.
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Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Out of curiousity, do you have a suggestion for an inertia system that would not potentially limit the player's ability to track fast moving targets? I only ask because the other two that have been proposed have the same potential. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Here you go: Is something supposed to be wrong with the ARCO? -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Kind of like this? -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
If you're going to keep insisting that the new sway and inertia are unmanageable while people post video evidence of themselves not having a problem with it, then eventually someone is going to assume the problem has to be with you. That guy is firing 8-10 round bursts. You are firing 30 round bursts. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
It looks like you aren't even trying to adapt to the new system in those videos. You're also not supposed to fire machine guns in bursts that long in the game or in real life. Edit: Actually, I'm not even sure what your point is with the first video. The biggest problem I'm seeing is that you aren't even trying to compensate for the recoil that has been in Arma 3 from the very beginning. E2: Here is a video of me not having a problem with the sway or fatigue. Please note that I have double the fatigue level that you do in your video. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
No one is saying that there is an insignificant amount of inertia or sway. What people are saying is that they don't have a problem with it. This isn't a combat simulator or a training simulator. It's just a video game, even if it is more realism focused than many others. -
It was announced with the Helicopter DLC. http://www.bistudio.com/company/developers-blog/465-roadmap-14-15-dlc-strategy-blog Under The Details: DLC Strategy
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Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
I'm not sure what you are talking about with respect to the bolded part of this quote. I just fired a long burst out of an M200 and the sights were aligned through the whole thing. I even added some horizontal movement into the second burst and the sights stayed mroe or less aligned. Here is a video: I also tried this with reflex sights and the RCO, but didn't record it since the effects were the same. I was going to edit this next part into my previous post, but since we are on a new page, I'll just drop it in here: I think one of the big problems we're having in this instance is one of communication. When people read, "The new system is dumb and makes soldiers look like they have noodle arms, Cpl. Jello Arms, etc." what they understand that to mean is "I hate the new system, I don't understand it, or I didn't give it a chance." By contrast, this statement: "The pivot point of the gun is too far forward during sight misalignment. The same effect could be achieved in a more realistic matter if the weapon were to pivot from a point closer to the shoulder." indicates that you understand the purpose of the inertia system and would like to see a tweak to it's implementation without compromising its intent. Edit: Sure. But the problem is that we didn't understand that this was what you were asking for, since your initial post on the matter was this: Which comes off perhaps harsher than you intended and doesn't contain any of the constructive feedback that you have since provided. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
It sounds like your problems with the system are purely (well, mostly) cosmetic. While that's perfectly valid, it's hardly the indictment of the core mechanics that you're making it out to be. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
If you can't shoot straight then you probably need more practice. Also, your ideas about what factors influence accuracy in real life are very limited. There are many more factors than the two(?) you have listed. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
But why are you trying to explain how holosights work if that's not what anyone is talking about? Edit: Clarity -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
I can't tell if you are talking about inertia or weapon sway or both. As for your complaints about your head not being fixed to your sights: Sure, that's an argument that you can make, but even if the game acted like your head was glued to the stock, it wouldn't fundamentally change the weapon sway or inertia or the actions required to manage those things in the game. The way you counter inertia, by the way, is by making smooth movements with your mouse and avoiding sudden accelerations. If you have ever played Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield, the principle is the same. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
roshnak replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
For clarification, is the sway you're describing a result of the weapon sway/fatigue or the new inertia system? -
Arma 3 Helicopters DLC Discussion (dev branch)
roshnak replied to FredAirland's topic in ARMA 3 - GENERAL
Regardless of whether it is realistic, it doesn't seem feasible in this game engine. -
Arma 3 Helicopters DLC Discussion (dev branch)
roshnak replied to FredAirland's topic in ARMA 3 - GENERAL
I don't see any reason to implement a system for cockpit interaction just to be able to turn on the engine. It's the kind of thing you do so rarely that it could be bound to some far away key like Delete or Home and it wouldn't make a difference.