dunedain

The problem with your reasoning is that you think of Steam as a publisher while it really is mostly a digital retailer like there are many and then a DRM and Service provider. BIS being an independant studio are their own publisher, they are the one who sell their keys to Steam. They work together with Valve so their keys are on Steam data base, but the game really don't need to be Steamworks for this to be the case. I bought many games which weren't Steamworks that I could redeem on Steam if I wanted. That's all up to the publishers/indies. The more client Steam gets and the more games they have on their account, the better it is for Valve. The only cut Steam takes is from the sales from their own store. Notch mentioned it was 30% a while ago. It could be more for ArmaIII, that I can't know.

I rephrased my sentence in a less frankish way, the content is still the same. Stop implying things... Moderators are welcome to check the changes and distribute penalties for those who can't respect forum rules.

Since when common sense and knowledge makes you a fanboy... Some people really believe having deviant ideas makes them look smart or something. Which is sad really. As I said before this thread is pointless. You few are welcome not to buy the game if you don't like it which makes this whole debate even more pointless for you.

You're right, it seems some people here are still stuck in the 90's... You'll still be able to buy it from anywhere once the game is released at full price. Anyway are you seriously complaining that they offer ArmaIII for 25€? What EA did for BF3 is that they sold a nearly gold version at full price and called it Alpha to avoid bad press... If you can't even afford 25€ for ArmaIII, and give your feedbacks so the full release may be much more stable and less buggy than ArmaII was and to some extent is still is, that's very cheap. That's very little love you're showing here mate...

Valve isn't a corporation. It's a private company. It doesn't have any shareholders pushing behind for more dividends, unlike EA or Ubisoft. Their goal is still to ensure the perennity of their company, however they have much more freedom in the way they want to do it even if it means lesser profits.

Good luck with that... Even people who used fake accounts to bypass the regional pricing, buying games from the Russian store to resell them to Europeans via the gift system, only were restricted in their use of the gift service after being caught. A couple of years ago during the Christmas event, when they distributed games and coupons for free, some people started creating hundreds of accounts to exploit the system and make their own market out of it. In a matter of days Valve's stocks for this event were depleted. All these guys got was their extra accounts deleted, and again a suspension from the gift service. They don't just perma ban people for complaining on their forums, like EA did with Origins. As for your other complaint no digital stores offer refund unless said game show serious issues with many people. The WarZ for instance, Steam offered refund for anyone who asked for it, while the developer itself refused to refund the keys bought on their own website. They do refund pre-orders if you change your mind before the release though. So it's not just Steam... Moreover in 15 years of PC gaming I never heard of a retail stores which offer refunds after you unboxed your game. You guys are just trying way too hard to blame Steam with problems that have been standard in the industry for many years.

Now that we know ArmaIII uses Steamworks, there is no chance it will ever be anything else than a Steam exclusive. This whole thread has become pointless and redundant. Not sure why it hasn't been locked yet. There is an Offtopic forum for that kind of discussion.

As always I'll will start the first SP mission, map my keys properly while playing it, tweak the graphical options to get a decent framerate. I'll then have fun with the editor.

It would also be great if the terrain could actually cast shadows. It really looks cheap when you can see you own shadow floating on walls, because you on the side of a small hill with the sun behind your back.

Except digital stores get their keys directly from BIS, not Steam which just registers the keys on their servers. Just think of it as any DRM. Many games have their keys reedemable on Steam without requiring it. Supreme Commander and its expansion Forged Alliance could be redeemed on Steam after a while.

It's just smart business... It gets people to use their services, who then buy games/dlcs on their store.

Citation needed. As far as I know even free games can use Steamworks features... As far as your question goes it is very obvious digital copies bought straight from BIS' store are the ones they profit the most from. Every digital stores take their cut on the copies their sell. The least profitable sold copies for BIS are the boxed retail ones because they involve the most intermediaries.

They'll get more money if you buy from BIS' own store obviously. Steam for instance takes a 30% cut on everything sold through their store.

I simply wish ArmaIII vanilla would at least offer what you get playing ArmaII with ACE, JSRS, Blastcore, ASR_AI and TPWC_AI, so the community could actually stop focusing on the very same issues every new episode. I've been bitching about physics and animations since the good old days of OFP, but it seems they addressed both these issues with custom weapon animations and PhysX. I can't wait to play with all that fancy stuff... :D

Seeing how the last poll ended up with at least a hundred fake accounts created by a bunch of haters for the sole purpose of pushing the "no" option, I can see why they wouldn't care much about a handful reactionary fans' opinion. Anyway you will need either Vista or Seven to run ArmaIII. If your computer even meets the minimum requirements to run the game, there isn't any valid argument against a 64bits operating system.

I think I will only get the Alpha version. As I find the Supporter Edition a good 12 euros too expensive considering I already bought the whole serie on retail and that it's missing Red Hammer, for legal reason I know but still, and ArmaX on Steam is still missing the ACR dlc. Moreover OFP is included in Arma X, meaning it's advertised twice in the Supporter Edition. Concerning the DLCs it's mentioned it doesn't concern the eventual standalone, understandable but ArmaII dlcs being what they are, I think I can wait. The rest of the bonuses are kind of anecdotic, I couldn't care less about a badge or my name on the credits to brag about. Digital maps and guide are typically the things you'll find easily on the internet. The Digital Deluxe Edition doesn't add much to the Alpha version, so...

Sorry wrong board. :p

I don't usually use the crosshair in Arma2, but always thought the system used since OFP allowed to take way too accurate shots even at mid-range. So I guess this is an improvement, as long as they make it so the barrel isn't always centered to the middle of the crosshair.

I don't whine neither am I in love with Steam. I just find it pathetic that you guys created so many new accounts solely to boost the "no" option, don't you have better to do of your time? It's not like it serves your cause or will change anything. But whatever, I leave you haters at your whining contest while I play some games.

That's because we are a mature community full of principles... "joke" That poll is BS anyway, I wonder how many of those who voted "no" only did to whine and will pre order the game anyway. Nothing different from the L4D2 and MW2 boycotts.

Because you could beat any offer BIS could realistically make for the same exact product, thus making them loose a sale. Okay. So you're going from BIS doesn't lose anything when one of their potential customers buys from me rather than from them, to hurr durr I'm no sheep milking cow buying DLCs ect... I think we're done here. This is going way beyond stupidity. When you resell a car you are not selling the exact same product you bought. You still don't grasp the fundamental difference between digital and physical products. I'm not gonna bother repeating the same thing over and over as it is clear to me you're stuck to oversimplified preconceived notions. Let's just agree to disagree...

I like how you totally elude the fact the guy you sold your game to is, in the end, a lost client for BIS. You don't even consider the greater scheme of thousands people doing the same. Of course they'ld loose money as there would be a lot less copies around. As for you second point, again fallacious argument. While it's true many products lose value over time, in the case of digital products your own copy's worth, regardless of its "age", will equal digital retailers' offer. You of course will sell it for less, but nonetheless the product remains the same. The comparison with cars cannot work, as your own car's worth will always remain way below the price it is sold brandnew because of how worn out this things get fast. Indeed. But what doesn't affect digital products is alterability.

Except in the case of cars, or any physical product for that matter, you pay less for a lesser product, it's also true for console retail games with no activation. However a digital product is unalterable, doesn't matter if you buy it directly from the store or from some other guy. Try hard to think and guess what impact an online market of ArmaIII "used" copies would have on BIS sales figures?

I hardly see how they could convict people individually for violating a ToS... Doesn't change the fact that when you installed OFP for the first time 12 years ago, you agreed to their ToS, which only granted you a license for your own and personnal use. I already explained that. The used games market, as it is for consoles, usually works through retailers which mostly involve people exchanging their games for coupons to buy other used games. it is more hurtful because retailers themselves encourage it. An endless loop of people exchanging used games and retailers taking their cut while they keep less full price games in stock. Publishers show sheets with ludicrous figures regarding piracy but fail to see most of these people wouldn't care spending a dime on their game to begin with. Well that's pretty obvious and has been discussed in every possible way everywhere. This is also why Steam has been so successful in the digital market. I never thought any different as for the digital market giving a new breath to the PC gaming market. You're the one saying that "Yet somehow the game industry had survived and become mainstream before draconian ownership restrictions were implemented". And yet it was dying long before, and would again if people could just buy a game on Steam or anywhere else and sell it the day after, a month, a year without the product having lost any of its value being digital. This would be catastrophic for every single market players, including BiS... And yet the problem was still there back then as you needed a CD key to play and Gamespy would kick players using the same serial. So much for being free to resell your copy of Operation Flashpoint. It only worked if you knew and trusted the person you traded the game with. The very notion that you should legally be able to resell any unalterable digital product just like you would a bike, a car or a computer screen is nonsense. Consumer rights are how we write them. This is not a question of moral or principles but common sense...

Those terms of service agreements existed for OFP as well as long before. It's not something the digital market created, just check your old games booklets if you have any... They grant you a license to use the program, not ownership. Pirates don't show any will to spend money on their media. Therefore you really cannot mesure the impact piracy has on the market. However the used game market which mostly goes through retailers, and they usually only give your coupons to buy other used games, really hurts the market wether you like it or not... It's a fact not an opinion. I myself rarely buy games full price, but I always make sure it goes to those who actually made the game. The PC gaming industry was literally suffocating before the emergence of the digital market. As for your last point, cool story bro... I'm not into that hippie bullshit though, some lucidity on your part would be nice. You're saying you'ld rather have the whole digital market die than admitting it is objectively not possible to apply the same rules to digital and physical products... What do you mean by a whole account? Like it's a big thing, you can just create an account for that game. I know people who do it that way. And if you sell it, your "client" will know for sure you won't be keeping a copy of the serial key for your own use. So yeah in the end it's even safer than just buying a key from some random guy.