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msy

Is it normal that smoke can hinder the javelin to lock on?

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the game verson is the latest 72107 beta

I find that in the plane or maybe other terrain, the smoke from the tank can hinder the javelin to lock on when player is operating it. If I use a javelin, I can't lock on the tank after it releases smoke shell.

But in other situations, if AI use the javelin, it will be two possibilities.

(One is that you are in the tank, once the game starts, releasing the smoke shell asap. But you will still be locked on by AI and be shot.

the second is that you set one javelin soldier and an observer with TWS, and choose the observer as playable and you are still in the tank initially. Once the game starts you release the smoking shell asap, then quickly switching to the observer to look what the javelin is going on. And I see the shooter keeps the aiming state, but not firing until the smoke disappears.) those tests above have something wrong. I do it again.

There are two possibilities for AI javelin soldier.

First is that, if the AI doesn't get the target location marked by himself or others, he won't attack the tank, but can keep aiming state until the smoke disappears.

The second is that, if the AI gets the exact position of the tank himself,(you are in the tank), in other word, he sees the tank when the game starts, the AI will lock on and attack it without thought. If the javelin soldier is not the team leader, when the leader marks the position of tank for him, he will not attack either.

I think it not the problem of the Javelin, it is still a problem of AI, which shows a strong attacking ability when he has got the exact position of his enemy regardless of any environment obstacle.

---------- Post added at 03:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 AM ----------

one test situation

http://bbs.samren.cn/attachment/59_192_34976af6439a748.jpg

the AI locked me on and fired through the smoke

http://bbs.samren.cn/attachment/59_192_47329b7813f2010.jpg

I play as the observer, I can see the AI shoots the tank and destroyed it.

http://bbs.samren.cn/attachment/59_192_d35cc1fd6f60c1b.jpg

the other test situation

http://bbs.samren.cn/attachment/59_192_1295ded18f7af30.jpg

The target was marked by game, but I can not lock it on, whenever in optic mode or thermal mode.

http://bbs.samren.cn/attachment/59_192_c56ab13b9523a96.jpg

WFOL can't lock it on

http://bbs.samren.cn/attachment/59_192_eb2b399600e0132.jpg

NFOL is not either, even zoom in

http://bbs.samren.cn/attachment/59_192_f29d2212f84a912.jpg

Once the smoke disappears, you can lock on the tank

http://bbs.samren.cn/attachment/59_192_253502552872a60.jpg

So, how to explain this phenomenon?

---------- Post added at 03:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:06 AM ----------

And I want to know when to achieve the other function of Javelin? such as TOP mode and the manual locking mode such as the ACE2?

Edited by msy

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The Javelin weapon system or more importantly the CLU can see through man made smoke however not through natural smoke. In other words if a tank sets its charges off the jav can still see and hit it. But if there is a source of natural smoke nearby then it can not see..

This also depends on range and line of sight and TI clutter..

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smoke covers from modern tanks

contains today special particles which can break IR, TI and Laser

so it's not just for breaking normal spectrum for what Your eye can see ...

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thats not true, any mad made smoke clu can see through..
You are wrong!

There is no difference in "man made" smoke to "natural Smoke" this disstinction in it self is nonsense. Whats make the difference is what the smoke screen contains...and that can be everything no matter "who" made it.

In military smoke screens this is a mixture of hexachloroethane, aluminum powder and zinc oxide. The smoke contains zinc chloride, which forms with the humidity fog that is near impermeable for lasers or heat signatures due to high reflective features and metallic particles. The smoke is also instantly hazardous to the human respiratory system when inhaled.

Edited by Beagle

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Sorry for the thread hijack, but in OA the javelin has changed (to similar to ace one), how do You change the Javelin from direct to top down? I've tried a few keys but cant find it

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Sorry for the thread hijack, but in OA the javelin has changed (to similar to ace one), how do You change the Javelin from direct to top down? I've tried a few keys but cant find it
The Armaverse Incarnation of the Javelin currently has only one fire mode...something beetween direct and top attack, no switch.

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They included:

carbon monoxide (CO)

ethylene tetrachloride (C2CI,1)

hydrogen chloride (HCO)

hexachloroethane (CC. 6)

carbonyl chloride (COCIfr2ri)

hhexoacihnlo robCen2zene (CJCI6 )

carbon tetrachloride ( chlorine (Cl)

Which can be used to deflect IR. They also use fog with large water droplets which can reflect the IR.

Source: US Army Files

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA080936

Edited by Nicholas

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smoke covers from modern tanks

contains today special particles which can break IR, TI and Laser

so it's not just for breaking normal spectrum for what Your eye can see ...

That's pretty cool, didn't know that. nice feature :cool:

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smoke covers from modern tanks

contains today special particles which can break IR, TI and Laser

so it's not just for breaking normal spectrum for what Your eye can see ...

I do it again.

There are two possibilities for AI javelin soldier.

First is that, if the AI doesn't get the target location marked by himself or others, he won't attack the tank, but can keep aiming state until the smoke disappears.

The second is that, if the AI gets the exact position of the tank himself,(you are in the tank), in other word, he sees the tank when the game starts, the AI will lock on and attack it without thought. If the javelin soldier is not the team leader, when the leader marks the position of tank for him, he will not attack either.

I think it not the problem of the Javelin, it is still a problem of AI, which shows a strong attacking ability when he has got the exact position of his enemy regardless of any environment obstacle.

Edited by msy

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Why AI can lock on the tank regardless of the smoke?

They can't. When I tested AI could not fire when I was obscured by smoke.

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Well I can not access this url...maybe I'm am classified as a potential terrorist.

Haha, I don't know. But it's pretty cool, the US Army, Navy, and the Air Force have "Fact Sheets" on their website that lists their arsenal and information about each item. The Army even has several manuals available to look at.

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They can't. When I tested AI could not fire when I was obscured by smoke.

I have retested it again, and fix some discription and conclusion.

There are two possibilities for AI javelin soldier.

First is that, if the AI doesn't get the target location marked by himself or others, he won't attack the tank, but can keep aiming state until the smoke disappears.

The second is that, if the AI gets the exact position of the tank himself,(you are in the tank), in other word, he sees the tank when the game starts, the AI will lock on and attack it without thought. If the javelin soldier is not the team leader, when the leader marks the position of tank for him, he will not attack either.

I think it not the problem of the Javelin, it is still a problem of AI, which shows a strong attacking ability when he has got the exact position of his enemy regardless of any environment obstacle.

Edited by msy

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I think it not the problem of the Javelin, it is still a problem of AI, which shows a strong attacking ability when he has got the exact position of his enemy regardless of any environment obstacle.

I highly doubt it's an issue with the AI's detection. They'll know the tank is there, smoke or not (smoke's not gonna make them forget about the tank). Whether or not they fire will depend on if they can get a lock. As far as I can tell, AI abides by the same rules as players when aquiring a lock for guided weapons.

When I tested, smoke popped from an enemy tank severly hindered my ability to lock on to it with the Javelin. The smoke is not 100% effective however. There were times when I started to get a lock for a short time. IMO, that's perfectly acceptable. It's not like smoke would create a magical barrier as soon as it's deployed that blocks all thermal/IR signatures, there's bound to be something that leaks through.

Back to the AI. When I tested, the AI usually was not able to get a lock when I was obscured by smoke. Yes, they will aim at you, but they won't be able to get a lock until the smoke clears. Like I said however, sometimes the smoke is not effective. Another thing to take into account is that the smoke will not instantly obscur the tank from the missile. Now, I only breifly tested it, but I didn't notice anything that I felt was unacceptable in terms of the AI being able to engage me through the smoke.

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Do you have a try when the Javelin AI himself sees your tank's position before you pop the smoke shell to obscure yourself, he will still lock and attack?

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