How to keep the AI in formation and keeping up/ following orders?

[Eclipse4349 0]

Was playing last night, I was squad leader with 3 fireteams, assigned to red, blue, and green. After making contact with the enemy , I ordered them to take cover. It seems that after that, nothing I did could get them to follow any move/regroup orders. Sometimes a few will follow, so

etimes none. After ordering them to safe mode and stand up, about half of them started moving kinda sorta in my direction.

I was attempting to maneuver north around a hill then flank a known enemy group by crossing the hill moving east, but nothing I did got my squad back together again. In fact, after giving them a waypoins far to the north to accomplish my flank, about half of the group moved straight towards the enemy, in small straggling groups. None of them moved where I told them to. Needless to say, disaster followed.

It resulted in parts of the squad being engaged in the nearby town. I then tried to order fireteams to different areas in the town that would provide cover and a good vantage point, but none of them ever even started going where they were ordered to. Ever.

What can I do to simply get the AI to follow my lead and keep up, and actually move when I tell them to? I have no mods, and have the latest version 1.05. I have the gam through Steam. I was playing a mission I designed, with the first aid system fully implemented, ie each Blufor group with it's own set of first aid modules, with each soldier in the group synchronized to all 3 modules.

Thanks!

[icewindo 29]

Try this one:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=6416

There's also a newer version included in Z Gubas pack (you can just run the Stick Together addon and leave out the others):

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=7184

Edited May 28, 2010 by Icewindo

[SteveJA 12]

Yeah ive had the same problems, i think it was caused by the 1.5 patch. Anyways the work around is to hold fire and have troops orded to the best positions before combat has started. Obviously this wont work if you meet contact unexpectedly, leaving you and your squad dead in the water.

[Eclipse4349 0]

Try this one:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=6416

There's also a newer version included in Z Gubas pack (you can just run the Stick Together addon and leave out the others):

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=7184

Thanks, I may try that one. What is this CBA that is referred to in the page the second link refers to?

Would be nice if the AI would place orders above whatever they "think" they should be doing. Hopefully this is very high up on the fix list!!

[tj72 0]

Thank you for raising this issue as I and others have tried to raise it in the past and it has been practically ignored. Its nice that there are workarounds that try to fix the issue but the reality is that it should be fixed in the core program by BIS programmers as they are the ones who created the problem with the 1.05 patch. It is such a huge and obvious problem and it almost ruins Arma2 SP for me.

In my scripts it overrides the domove command and also the moveincargo type commands and it is just brutal how shitty this "feature" really is and how long its been allowed to exist. The only effective workaround I could find was joining each unit in the squad into their own group and when they no longer had any other units in their group to associate with they finally start being controllable again (through scripting). It may be a bit better in game as squad leader but even then it still seems to be a problem.

In game as leader you can try:

Formation FILE

set behaviour/combatmode to SAFE or CARELESS.

They seem to stop locking down then but it needs more testing but at least there are some things to try out.

It really really really really needs to be fixed. How many posts about this do you need before it gets fixed BIS team?

[TRexian 0]

You may have mentioned it, but I didn't see it - what were your AI settings?

[Eclipse4349 0]

I ordered them to take cover before the problem started. It seems like after that is where the problem started. I usually set them to aware and stand up when I have distance to cover, and it works fine. In this case, not so much. Nothing I did could get them to return to formation, move to my location, move to a location farther nirth but along the path I wanted to take, etc. I tried changing their stance, changing them to "safe", everything I could think of. Then, at one point while moving north by myself in preperation to then flank east, my men started moving out of the forrest where I had ordered them to take cover. They moved northeast-ish, straight towards the enemy I just spent 10 minutes trying to get them to maneuver with me to go around and flank! Then the mission fell apart...

[meade95 0]

+1 - Sqaud AI / and following orders is a MUST issue to be addressed by BIS - I suspect it has to be part of the next update coming out any day now with the release of Arrowhead...

[TRexian 0]

Keep in mind that it can be a fine line where the AI is "smart" enough to do what you tell it to and "dumb" enough to do what you tell it to.

[IronPants 0]

Definitely a frustrating problem. Fancy AI algorithms become pointless if the AI won't even keep up with their leader or follow orders. Their danger behavior should NOT make them ignore orders.

[Eclipse4349 0]

Keep in mind that it can be a fine line where the AI is "smart" enough to do what you tell it to and "dumb" enough to do what you tell it to.

Not in this case. They hadn't been under fire for 10 minutes and the enemy had retreated! Lol

[terox 316]

The basic problem here, is that Local client controlled AI seems to run the same A.I control code as Serversider AI. (e.g FSM's etc)

BIS have dramatically improved the A.I as an enemy force, eg against coop players and with that they have lost the control that we players had over our A.I back in OFP days

What actually seems to happen is

Once they enter "Combat Mode" you lose control over them to a rather large extent.

The solution to this would be for BIS to recode an ( if client, if server) switch into the A.I control.

However unfortunately, it would appear (AND I MAY BE WRONG) that BIS does not want to spend time and effort coding A.I to do this, probably because they dont see , as a general rule, players wanting to have A.I in their group.

This assumption would also (UNFORTUNATELY) appear to be true, as a general rule even in coop play, their are relatively few community missions that implement A.I in player groups other than as respawn units.

This issue has I believed caused a lot of OFP players to abandon ArmA1 and 2 .

I believe this is a massive oversite and needs to be corrected.

What we need. (Client side only)

1) AI to hold fire when told to do so

2) AI to keep up at whatever pace the player group leader is moving at

3) AI to keep formation when told to do so

4) AI to stay down, stay up when they are told to do so

5) AI to move wherever they are told to do so (They dont even do this in higher command when in combat mode)

6) AI to get out of the vehicle when ordered to do so, while another player is in the same vehicle (This is an 8 year old bug that for gods sake still hasn't been fixed (Although It has been mentioned that VBS2 no longer has this issue))

7) Support waypoint to work in multiplayer

I believe I speak for the majority of players who have shown interest in this thread that we simply want the A.I to do as they are told when they are told by a Player group leader.

But for godsake dont effect server side A.I in this way they have been improved quite a lot

If these issues were resolved then those communities that wanted too could then increase the friendly orbats from say a couple of squads to a full company, using the players to control groups of A.I effectively as group leaders.

For example, our Coop community has a turn out of up to 25 players, at present mainly because of the A.I control issue we play 2 to 3 squads and a support team, mostly playable slots and mostly disabling the A.I slots.

In OFP with this turnout we could field an orbat somewhere between an extended platoon to a company, with a lot of players taking group leader roles commanding a full A.I squad. We would also utilise group respawn (Which then worked on all units in the group, not just playable units, This is another negative factor that ArmA created))

We had this in OFP and we (Those that used to play this way) severely miss it now

The engine itself, with the current hardware specs that exist can now easily accomodate A.I company v Player controlled company battles.

The engine was I believe designed to incorporate Player controlled A.I groups and this is one of the major features that makes the B.I engine stand out from the rest.

So please please please consider implementing the above listed features as they at present have a very negative effect on cooperative play for the communities out there that want to control AI squads

Edited June 3, 2010 by Terox

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Definitely a frustrating problem. Fancy AI algorithms become pointless if the AI won't even keep up with their leader or follow orders. Their danger behavior should NOT make them ignore orders.

Well, that might conflict when you are just ordering AI via the map and they get into contact. I actually do want them to react in a defensive manner if they get into contacts. However, when the self AI dosent do what its supposed to, in regards to what you are trying to do and the lack of results you see, there should be a "idiot" mode under "safe" that basically makes them zombies, go there, shoot that etc, to counter the too often scenarios where the ai dosent react correctly. A huge issue with infantry, I think.

However some orders should be instant regardless of status. Like get in (4). When in danger that takes waaay to long even if the ai is right next to the tank or similar.

Edit:

It would be great to have a manual mode (idiot mode). Where the ai could still scan and report targets, but only attacked those they where ordered to. If they where standing on the same spot they would go prone and if they where told to move they would stand up and sprint (full speed) to the new area totally ignoring everything, even incoming fire.

Edited May 29, 2010 by JojoTheSlayer

[Eclipse4349 0]

+1 for an idiot zombie mode! So often, if they just ran to you, everything would be fine

[meade95 0]

The basic problem here, is that Local client controlled AI seems to run the same A.I control code as Serversider AI. (e.g FSM's etc)

BIS have dramatically improved the A.I as an enemy force, eg against coop players and with that they have lost the control that we players had over our A.I back in OFP days

What actually seems to happen is

Once they enter "Combat Mode" you lose control over them to a rather large extent.

The solution to this would be for BIS to recode an ( if client, if server) switch into the A.I control.

However unfortunately, it would appear (AND I MAY BE WRONG) that BIS does not want to spend time and effort coding A.I to do this, probably because they dont see , as a general rule, players wanting to have A.I in their group.

This assumption would also (UNFORTUNATELY) appear to be true, as a general rule even in coop play, their are relatively few community missions that implement A.I in player groups other than as respawn units.

This issue has I believed caused a lot of OFP players to abandon ArmA1 and 2 .

I believe this is a massive oversite and needs to be corrected.

What we need. (Client side only)

1) AI to hold fire when told to do so

2) AI to keep up at whatever pace the player group leader is moving at

3) AI to keep formation when told to do so

4) AI to stay down, stay up when they are told to do so

5) AI to move wherever they are told to do so (They dont even do this in higher command when in combat mode)

6) AI to get out of the vehicle when ordered to do so, while another player is in the same vehicle (This is an 8 year old bug that for gods sake still hasn't been fixed (Although It has been mentioned that VBS2 no longer has this issue))

7) Support waypoint to work in multiplayer

I believe I speak for the majority of players who have shown interest in this thread that we simply want the A.I to do as they are told when they are told by a Player group leader.

But for godsake dont effect server side A.I in this way they have been improved quite a lot

If these issues were resolved then those communities that wanted too could then increase the friendly orbats from say a couple of squads to a full company, using the players to control groups of A.I effectively as group leaders.

For example, our Coop community has a turn out of up to 25 players, at present mainly because of the A.I control issue we play 2 to 3 squads and a support team, mostly playable slots and mostly disabling the A.I slots.

In OFP with this turnout we could field an orbat somewhere between an extended platoon to a company, with a lot of players taking group leader roles commanding a full A.I squad. We would also utilise group respawn (Which then worked on all units in the group, not just playable units, This is another negative factor that ArmA created))

We had this in OFP and we (Those that used to play this way) severely miss it now

The engine itself, with the current hardware specs that exist can now easily accomodate A.I company v Player controlled company battles.

The engine was I believe designed to incorporate Player controlled A.I groups and this is one of the major features that makes the B.I engine stand out from the rest.

So please please please consider implementing the above listed features as they at present have a very negative effect on cooperative play for the communities out there that want to control AI squads

+1!! You cover it all here....

[santafee 10]

Yea, everything which must be fixed, with the solution, is in your post my friend.

Operation Arrowhead it out in exactly 1 month. I remember, that many, many people(including me) pointed these gamebreaking problems out like a half year before, as the beta patches were developed.

PLEASE BIS, many people will buy the expansion, we love the game, but the problem wih the AI order is still gamebreaking. I remember posting with Suma in one of the Beta Patch Threads, were they asked for our feedback, bounding overwatch and stuff. Come join this thread Suma, just give us some statement for those command problem and im sure some more people in here will buy your game right from the release.

In interviews we allready heared from all the great new stuff in OA and the idea to keep it small, but polish it more. The command System as Leader is so essential, that it shouldnt be left behind after so much time after the Arma 2 release. I dont think we have to mention what kind of BIG problem this is for SP players. Im playing SP only so far and many missions are just ruined by this stuff.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Himmelsfeuer