Recoil

[galzohar 31]

The easiest way to see what the problem is would be to actually play vanilla with crosshairs on and using a non-heavy-MG weapon (so that you have that little line between the crosshairs showing you exactly where you're going to hit) and fire a shot. Look at the movement the little line makes right after the shot and where it gets back to while the "big crosshair" stays perfectly still. This is not how realistic recoil should behave.

[An Fiach 10]

The easiest way to see what the problem is would be to actually play vanilla with crosshairs on and using a non-heavy-MG weapon (so that you have that little line between the crosshairs showing you exactly where you're going to hit) and fire a shot. Look at the movement the little line makes right after the shot and where it gets back to while the "big crosshair" stays perfectly still. This is not how realistic recoil should behave.

The 'big crosshair' is just an indicator of how steady you are, e.g. is gets wider when you are fatigued or injured, giving you a visual indicator of your general stability. The center line is the point of aim and the one that is most relevant to this topic.

[galzohar 31]

Yes I know, my point was that the "big crosshair" shows you the middle of your screen and it never moves anywhere and thus you can look at the movement of the actual point of aim/impact in relation to something that doesn't move and always points where you look, and see that the point of aim returns exactly to where it was (aside from the breathing effects).

[kklownboy 43]

Crosshairs?

[max power 21]

The easiest way to see what the problem is would be to actually play vanilla with crosshairs on and using a non-heavy-MG weapon (so that you have that little line between the crosshairs showing you exactly where you're going to hit) and fire a shot. Look at the movement the little line makes right after the shot and where it gets back to while the "big crosshair" stays perfectly still. This is not how realistic recoil should behave.

The big crosshair indicates where you are intending to aim. The small one indicates where the muzzle is actually pointing at some 30 meters distance. The crosshairs DO NOT represent the front and rear sights on the rifle.

There are threads linked to in this thread that shows slow motion footage of the m16 rifle going back into the shoulder, then climbing. It's exaggerated footage, but it shows that backward movement is possible. This is corroborated by the triplet animation config entries.

[galzohar 31]

I know what each crosshair represents, that was not my point. My point was to illustrate how your point of look doesn't move at all when you shoot while the muzzle goes up and to the right and then goes right back to where it was.

[Chumba 10]

Like I said, now that I've realised that in scope view the crosshair stays put while the rest of the screen moves, IMO what we need to do is just make Ironsight, AIMpoint and Holo optics do the same. That will be a good start at least, then making speed and "shape" right will make it even better. It SHOULD be a config setting but I'm buggered if I can figure it out.

On top of that, the other day I DID manage to successfully unpack weapons.pbo, convert config.bin to config.cpp, edit the config (made recoil much quicker) and successfully repack to weapons.pbo and run the game with it aok (that's how I established it's possible to speed up the recoil for a start), but now I can't get newly repacked weapons.pbo to work - aargh! I've already been down this road: Doing that recoil tweak, it had taken a LOT of messing about finding WHICH of the SEVERAL packing utilities would give me a working weapons.pbo, but when I did it the hour was late and I wasn't scientific about pissing off the rubbish utilities so subsequently I have to start again weeding out the TRASH until I have just ONE utility that works!

What's WITH everybody on earth putting out a different freaking utility!!

Have already finally found a utility that PROPERLY unpacks .bin files - ie. doesn't mess up syntax or leave out vital characters - it's name is unRap (I appreciate having a utility that works, but you've just gotta LOVE the fact that it's name has no reference to BIN in any way shape or form - finding it was pure LUCK!)

Edited February 24, 2010 by Chumba

[max power 21]

I know what each crosshair represents, that was not my point. My point was to illustrate how your point of look doesn't move at all when you shoot while the muzzle goes up and to the right and then goes right back to where it was.

Why would your point of concentration move when you're shooting 'from the hip'?

[afp 1]

Chimba, I think you're just messing up your addons folder. Learn how to create mods folders, also check my thread here its already a recoil modifier addon provided:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=89724

also check this one:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1551255&postcount=2456

[Chumba 10]

Chimba, I think you're just messing up your addons folder. Learn how to create mods folders, also check my thread here its already a recoil modifier addon provided:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=89724

also check this one:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1551255&postcount=2456

I'll go have a look - keep in mind tho that I'm going gangbusters with editing and packing chernarus.pbo, missions.pbo and the main game config.bin with no dramas - but for some reason weapons.pbo is extra temperamental - ie. needs a utility that's spot on. These are alterations to the original game pbo's, not part of my own mod or anything like that - all I'm trying to do is set things the way they freaking SHOULD have been in the first place.

Considering how EASY it is to fix these things, IMO game options SHOULD include settings for colour values, which animals and how many (density / probability) and how long the grass is.

I can still remember when fool game devs used to make games with FIXED control configs - and I used to go off about that at the time too. I guess we HAVE come a long way - but it could be so much better so EASILY - I'm all for OPTIONS BABY! OPTIONS!!! :-D

Also - bear in mind it's a game - if yer going to stick yer.... finger in a warm pie it doesn't REALLY matter if it's a blueberry pie or an apple pie as long as it's mushy and warm and feels about right ;-)

Edited February 24, 2010 by Chumba

[galzohar 31]

Why would your point of concentration move when you're shooting 'from the hip'?

Smack yourself on your shoulder and then tell me your view didn't move even a tiny bit. And besides, why should your weapon ever come back exactly to the same spot where it was before firing, especially when firing unaimed? There is no way you can pull that off IRL, and yes I have fired several weapons.

Side note: There is no hip shooting in Arma 2, just unaimed shooting from the shoulder - just look at the 3rd person view and see for yourself.

[An Fiach 10]

Smack yourself on your shoulder and then tell me your view didn't move even a tiny bit. And besides, why should your weapon ever come back exactly to the same spot where it was before firing, especially when firing unaimed? There is no way you can pull that off IRL, and yes I have fired several weapons.

Side note: There is no hip shooting in Arma 2, just unaimed shooting from the shoulder - just look at the 3rd person view and see for yourself.

Again, the issue is the point of aim returning to zero, my view doesn't change when I fire or get smacked in the shoulder, your body naturally compensates for this, you are still looking at exactly what you want to look at.

Side note: You must have missed the ' ' around his statement, meaning un-aimed shots, he didn't mean literally from the hip.

[max power 21]

Smack yourself on your shoulder and then tell me your view didn't move even a tiny bit. And besides, why should your weapon ever come back exactly to the same spot where it was before firing, especially when firing unaimed? There is no way you can pull that off IRL, and yes I have fired several weapons.

Maybe my head might move a millimetre or two but where I'm looking should remain constant because my eyes are stabilized... or maybe I have a superhuman ability to pay attention to something even after I'm been smacked in the shoulder.

edit: If that was true, it would explain a lot, actually.

Side note: There is no hip shooting in Arma 2, just unaimed shooting from the shoulder - just look at the 3rd person view and see for yourself.

Notice the apostrophes in 'shooting from the hip'.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Max Power