Chat, parties, and addon download list/automatic

[tacticalnuggets 24]

As most people know, the multiplayer section of arma 2 is extremely basic and barely functional. It serves one purpose, displays a server list and lets you connect to them. I desperately request the features I am about to explain.

ArmA2 needs a new multiplayer system. I'm not talking about after you join a server, i'm talking about when you go into the multiplayer section. When you go into the multiplayer section you should be able to access a chat system, a party organizing system, and a list of downloadable addons and mods approved by BIS. These features should go along with the server list already available, but allow you to continue to stay connected with your party in some way (maybe highlighted names or chat?). Here is a summary of the new features that are paramount in renewing the multiplayer experience of arma2.

The chat system will provide you the ability to ask questions and get a feel for the community. Players that have a run and gun mindset may even be persuaded to change there ways to get enjoyment out of the game, and friends will obviously be made in the process.

The party organizing system is needed because in order to have fun on most missions, you need other people to do it with. This will allow groups of people to join into servers and easily coordinate before a mission begins or they decide to load in. Clans, tactical gameplay, tournaments, and general team work will arise because of this, and those things certainly need a boost right now.

The approved addon list/downloading system is the most important thing needed in the multiplayer section. Like I have said before, half the servers require custom content, and most people will be demotivated by this. Even the option to automaticaly download individual addons at a time would be an extremely helpful thing for the community.

These features should be implemented either in Operation Arrowhead, or better yet, patched into arma 2.

[cri74 10]

Maybe your looking for somthing like this? Clicky

Edited February 10, 2010 by cri74

[Alex72 1]

You learn fast wich servers/teams are serious around here. Join and play with them wich will spare you headaches. Regarding addons and which ones are used please see: Yoma's Addon Synchronizer

That is a tool way too litte used by the community. You can search servers in it and see whos playing. You can make a modline on the fly as you enter a server. You can see what signature files they are using. Heck you can even click a button called "Connect with equal mods"! Wich will start ARMA2 with the mods used on the server. And if some addon is too new or you dont have it - it can even download the addons for you and you dont have to do squat regarding modfolders etc.

Set it up against Kellys Heroes for example wich hosts a lot of addons wich they update when new versions comes out. All you do to get the new addon versions is to click 2 buttons: Check for addons, Download addons - done - all updated.

There are more and i think you should download it and go through it real careful cause i think youll be very happy seeing what that program can do. :) The more servers using it - the easier it gets for everyone since it will download files to you at the click of a button and then join the server plus start Teamspeak etc etc. Superb stuff. Nice interface.

Ta ta.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

:rolleyes: You guys are missing the point; this is for the people who do not know where to go or what to do. This is for 80% of the people that tried the game and did not continue it because they simply do not understand this type of game. I completely understand this game, you veterans do to. But does the average joe know he can get yoma? Does he even know where to get it? Thats kind of the point of having this built in to the game. Many games already do this because most people do not wish to put in that effort. Nor is it wrong to have that mindset, as most people are very very busy.

And for BIS's knowledge, I already know they can do this, so if you are looking at this please do not say you cant.

[Herbal Influence 10]

I appreciate the general thought of tacticalnuggets.

@Alex72: You can already see who is online on a every server.

Compared to the OFP Multiplayer Interface the one of Arma2 is luxury.

I think a common or general chat for all in a "waiting hall" requires a dedicated server sponsored by BIs or whoever and that might be a hurdle - not because of the money required, but you also have to guard that server continously in terms of kick Spammers or detect other violators of common accepted rules.

And what if you got banned by that system for being rude?

Just my thoughts. I discuss to learn from you.

Sure more comfortable games may deliver this.

But - in cases of doubt - I want BI games to stay free and rough instead of comfortable and bemuttered - though this may result in less online gamers / popularity.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Does anybody else think this should be implemented as a patch to arma 2 or should it be implemented in operation arrowhead? I think the patch idea would be better, but it would obviously require more time and be harder to do that way. Putting it in a game already in development is far easier.

[PuFu 4600]

As most people know, the multiplayer section of arma 2 is extremely basic and barely functional. It serves one purpose, displays a server list and lets you connect to them. I desperately request the features I am about to explain.

I agree, it is missing favourites for instance

The rest, well, don't really on the same page with you though. Here is why:

When you go into the multiplayer section you should be able to access a chat system,

You already do, and you can freely chat. If what you are trying to say that there should be a newly created chan list called for instance "MP lobby chnl" then i agree with you.

a party organizing system

As in what? Give me an example of an existing one, or make up one of your own. What does party mean for you? How does one go about organizing in a JIP environment?

and a list of downloadable addons and mods approved by BIS.

There is NO such thing. All mods and addons are equally supported(or tbh, unsupported by BIS)

These features should go along with the server list already available, but allow you to continue to stay connected with your party in some way (maybe highlighted names or chat?). Here is a summary of the new features that are paramount in renewing the multiplayer experience of arma2.

There is a reason there are 2 screen in A2. One being slot selection, and second being Map Screen. In map screen you can trace orders, ideas, etc etc via chat or VON, withing side, group whatever already. Clans, Tournaments and some public servers use that already (TG for instance)

The chat system will provide you the ability to ask questions and get a feel for the community. Players that have a run and gun mindset may even be persuaded to change there ways to get enjoyment out of the game, and friends will obviously be made in the process.

Already possible within the current layout. And happening

The party organizing system is needed because in order to have fun on most missions, you need other people to do it with. This will allow groups of people to join into servers and easily coordinate before a mission begins or they decide to load in. Clans, tactical gameplay, tournaments, and general team work will arise because of this, and those things certainly need a boost right now.

See above. It is happening already.

The approved addon list/downloading system is the most important thing needed in the multiplayer section. Like I have said before, half the servers require custom content, and most people will be demotivated by this. Even the option to automaticaly download individual addons at a time would be an extremely helpful thing for the community.

You cannot connect to a server that has running addons for a reason. The content needs to be loaded with the engine in order for it to work. So connecting to a server then being told what addons you are missing will never happen, no matter how much you want it.

I do agree there should be some sort of button withing the game telling you what addons are running on the server, or better yet, within the mission.

But that is already possible if user and server admins are running yoma and configed it properly..(although outside the game itself).

Having BIS support certain addons is not gonna happen either..And that is for a good reason: impartiality. More on the point, what you are asking would involved BIS even further in spreading those addons using their own bandwidth and storage, which is out of question. I am not gonna even touch the subject of auto download. It needs to be optional, customizable by client, and by no means mandatory. The size of addons is not comparable with the size of missions.

These features should be implemented either in Operation Arrowhead, or better yet, patched into arma 2.

A better system for MP lobby is indeed wanted. Needed? Not really.

Having a built in addon server reader with links or at least namer of those addons? Yes. Sinchronizer? No.

Edited February 18, 2010 by PuFu

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Pufu, you misunderstood my what I ment by chat. As soon as you enter into the multiplayer section, you should be able to chat with everybody who is in the arma 2 mutliplayer section. You should not have to locate a server then join it to chat. Something along the lines of an mmo mass chat.

To elaborate more on party organizing, it is needed because people need to be able to organize groups before they join a server, and they should be able to do this ingame without searching for a clan or TS server.

Addon downloads will work, if a mod is not listed on a BIS approved mods and addon list, then you should have the option to automaticaly do that on the server.

For example, mp missions are packed into PBO's and you must download them from the server to play the mission. This can easily be modified for addons as well.

[PuFu 4600]

Pufu, you misunderstood my what I ment by chat. As soon as you enter into the multiplayer section, you should be able to chat with everybody who is in the arma 2 mutliplayer section. You should not have to locate a server then join it to chat. Something along the lines of an mmo mass chat.

Right, got you know.

But what you are saying now would be hard to achieved, as it would mean a sort of IM connection between players who are sitting in the MP list, looking for a server to join. Haven't seen this sort of MP lobby in any other game though

With BIS not getting involved further than delivering and supporting the game itself, all the servers, etc etc being provided by the community, i doubt it will change.

Addon downloads will work, if a mod is not listed on a BIS approved mods and addon list, then you should have the option to automaticaly do that on the server.

Told you before: BIS are not getting involved further than releasing and supporting the game. I do NOT agree it would be a good thing having BIS approving or not approving community content, sorry.

For example, mp missions are packed into PBO's and you must download them from the server to play the mission. This can easily be modified for addons as well.

I will try to explain again what i have wrote before:

1. yes, both missions and addons are in pbo format

2. the size of missions (from 20kbs to 1.5mbs) and addons (from several kbs to 1+gb) is freaking huge

3. You can add missions to your mission folders and the game will read them no problem (SP or MP) without needing to shut down the game. You CAN'T load up addons without RESTARTING the game, since the content is loaded only on startup

3. having ppl connecting to a server running addons having to download from the same server is big NO NO. By all means unfeasable to both parties. I tell you that from a server admin(KH) POV.

____

So while i do agree with you to a certain point, BUT you need to come up with better solutions that what you did until now, KNOWING how the engine works before hand.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Right, got you know.

But what you are saying now would be hard to achieved, as it would mean a sort of IM connection between players who are sitting in the MP list, looking for a server to join. Haven't seen this sort of MP lobby in any other game though

With BIS not getting involved further than delivering and supporting the game itself, all the servers, etc etc being provided by the community, i doubt it will change.

Told you before: BIS are not getting involved further than releasing and supporting the game. I do NOT agree it would be a good thing having BIS approving or not approving community content, sorry.

I will try to explain again what i have wrote before:

1. yes, both missions and addons are in pbo format

2. the size of missions (from 20kbs to 1.5mbs) and addons (from several kbs to 1+gb) is freaking huge

3. You can add missions to your mission folders and the game will read them no problem (SP or MP) without needing to shut down the game. You CAN'T load up addons without RESTARTING the game, since the content is loaded only on startup

3. having ppl connecting to a server running addons having to download from the same server is big NO NO. By all means unfeasable to both parties. I tell you that from a server admin(KH) POV.

____

So while i do agree with you to a certain point, BUT you need to come up with better solutions that what you did until now, KNOWING how the engine works before hand.

No offense, but on the loading addons into memory only at the start of the game is kind of lazy on BIS part. That is something they should obviously change if they were to implement ingame downloading.

On the BIS approved addons, it would be very easy. All they have to do is allow addon entry. Then, they would determine if they put their approval on it. They would then add it to the list of downloadable approved BIS addons and mods. They may or may not include a *We are not responsible for any problem occuring because of these addons or mods, as they are user made*. Simple as that, then most people wont have to get on the internet searching for mods or addons, which are even more unsafe because BIS have not looked at them at all. So that is my solution.

If we can make it so new people can actually join a game in multiplayer without much problems, then that will solve an entire piece of the puzzel. Which is why I have marked it as most important.

ArmA2 is not an mmo, but it certainly is as big as one complexity and world wise. So it should be treated like an mmo, with access to mass chat, user made features, and organizational systems built into the game. Guild wars easily accomplished this without charging money every month, and it is considered an mmo.

[PuFu 4600]

No offense either, but you are a bit hard headed, since i have tried explaining you, with reasons for it, why what you are suggesting will NOT happen

No offense, but on the loading addons into memory only at the start of the game is kind of lazy on BIS part. That is something they should obviously change if they were to implement ingame downloading.

I thought i asked nicely to document yourself how game engine works, especially BIS ones, before coming out and calling names.

No, they are not lazy. Please give me an example of another game where you can load addons on the fly without needing to restart your game? I know of NONE.

On the BIS approved addons, it would be very easy. All they have to do is allow addon entry. Then, they would determine if they put their approval on it. They would then add it to the list of downloadable approved BIS addons and mods.

Give it a rest.

If you are proposing such a thing, it means you understand nothing about BIS community, and why some are here stuck with BIS games for over 8 years.

1. BIS will never test EACH addon out there, and they will never get INVOLVED (and i want it to stay that way_

2. in BIS universe, all addons are just as important, mainly because you can't compare 2.

They may or may not include a *We are not responsible for any problem occuring because of these addons or mods, as they are user made*. Simple as that, then most people wont have to get on the internet searching for mods or addons, which are even more unsafe because BIS have not looked at them at all. So that is my solution.

LOL....

Why would BIS take responsability for addons or mods that have NOT been created by them in the first place? It will never happen...

If we can make it so new people can actually join a game in multiplayer without much problems, then that will solve an entire piece of the puzzel. Which is why I have marked it as most important.

Who is WE i keep hearing in posts like this?

There are servers running vanilla. I do agree that servers running with addons should be marked by their admins

Another possibility would be to have a check (like the game version check) between running mods client and server side, then not allowing you to join whatsoever with a reason why, or giving you a list of mods that you would need.

ArmA2 is not an mmo, but it certainly is as big as one complexity and world wise. So it should be treated like an mmo, with access to mass chat, user made features, and organizational systems built into the game. Guild wars easily accomplished this without charging money every month, and it is considered an mmo.

Now i understand where you are comming from....

Listen...

Arma2 is NOT a MMO. The big difference between a mmo and such a game is that besides its complexity, the servers are not provided by the game developers, in this case Bohemia, but by the commmunity.

If there was not a strong community around it that would invest in it (renting servers costs money, colocation cost money, owning your own server costs money - this is something the normal Joe, such as yourself, will not get to grasp at the beginning) there would be no MP environment whatsoever, and all of us would be playing either LAN, or SP.

ALL that you have asked so far is based on a MMO, hence why it will NEVER be implemented, and a big reason why it will not work.

Please understand that.

[An Fiach 10]

One small correction there Pufu, there are lots of games that allow mods/addons to be activated on the fly. I can't name any recent ones since I prefer more complex games like this one, but I do remember some games I have played even had a mod tab in their menu where you could choose what to activate. Conversions being the exception.

I have no idea if BIS can make this possible with this engine, but if possible it would be very convenient, at least for things like units and islands. Other types of addons/mods would be hard to fit into that but in the very least, having the server list reflect the active mod folders would be a huge help.

I don't see a need for BIS 'approved' addons, there are many websites linked from the respective mod pages in the forum that are quite established and safe. I don't see people needing to randomly search the internet for such things and potentially downloading viruses.

[PuFu 4600]

One small correction there Pufu, there are lots of games that allow mods/addons to be activated on the fly. I can't name any recent ones since I prefer more complex games like this one, but I do remember some games I have played even had a mod tab in their menu where you could choose what to activate. Conversions being the exception.

Let me rephrase that: i don't remember any game where you can choose the mods/additional content without needing a restart.

Obviously there are others where you have a tab select from ingame, but them again, the game will be auto restarted in order for the changes to take effect. IRC, STALKER behaves like that. Obviously that is more convenient for the average user that messing with start-up parameters.

Never really seen a game where you can just choose content and it will work. Not saying there aren't. But need to understand that A2 is running from the moment you enter the menu, and content has been already loaded. really doubt such thing could be done with any VR engine product

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Flight Sim? I was panel and gauge designer in that mod community myself, and once M$ made possible to "reload panel" (on a panel custom button) it helped tremendously. I could adjust gauge graphics position on the fly (i.e. reposition an altimeter needle), while keep working on the open files and instantly see the result of the changes. I don't know if scenery designers got that lucky though.

Having to shut down Arma2 to make adjustments and re-pbo the addon each time, is very frustrating when you're used to something better. It would be nice if Arma2 could access "unpacked pbo's", where everything in it was reloaded every time you ordered Arma2 to do so. I'm not very much into modding, so maybe there is something I don't know here :)

[PuFu 4600]

Flight Sim? I was panel and gauge designer in that mod community myself, and once M$ made possible to "reload panel" (on a panel custom button) it helped tremendously. I could adjust gauge graphics position on the fly (i.e. reposition an altimeter needle), while keep working on the open files and instantly see the result of the changes. I don't know if scenery designers got that lucky though.

Don't remember all that well, cheers for information

Having to shut down Arma2 to make adjustments and re-pbo the addon each time, is very frustrating when you're used to something better. It would be nice if Arma2 could access "unpacked pbo's", where everything in it was reloaded every time you ordered Arma2 to do so. I'm not very much into modding, so maybe there is something I don't know here :)

it is possible to use unpacked date in your development workflow:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/CMA:DevelopmentSetup#Develop_with_unpacked_data

further reading:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/CMB:SimplifyTesting

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/CMA:DevelopmentSetup

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=78175

cheers to Q for CMB/A and to Rock and everyone involved for the newb guide

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Pufu, I know its hard to believe you can like something and be critical of it at the same time, but thats how I feel about BIS when it comes to this game. You can say they cant do it, but I know they can, and a company thats in the business for money obviously CAN lift a finger when it comes to their product. They do it all the time, they are very good at it. All they have to do now is take some of their focus from gameplay, and put it into access and support. Like I have said, many people simply stop trying to play the game before they even attempt most of the features in arma2. The biggest target being multiplayer, as most people go straight to that after the campaign, or even right away.

Some people have trouble trying to wrap their head around it. When they see dropping multiplayer numbers, they automaticaly assume its the gameplay, that "only a specialized group of people like it". Its easy to assume this, but its the wrong assumption because even the specialized people are born out of the new people. So it cant be just because its realistic. Which is why I am making my purpose to spread this message.

[PuFu 4600]

Pufu, I know its hard to believe you can like something and be critical of it at the same time, but thats how I feel about BIS when it comes to this game.

I never questioned what you like, or if you do. I couldn't care less tbh. It is not the matter of this thread either.

You can say they cant do it, but I know they can, and a company thats in the business for money obviously CAN lift a finger when it comes to their product.

That's a very common way of seeing things from a lot of game community members unfortunatly.

You first need to understand that there are certain limitations. I have already described, with details and technical facts what are those, but you keep on ignoring the logical part of this thread, and come back with things like the bolded part above...Pity

They do it all the time, they are very good at it. All they have to do now is take some of their focus from gameplay, and put it into access and support.

Are we talking about changing the interface for what? For OA (which is an stand alone EXPANSION pack) or for A2, through a future patch(which is suppose to be fixing and addressing BUGS, rather than changing core mechanics and adding more features?)

Either way, it is not gonna happen.

Like I have said, many people simply stop trying to play the game before they even attempt most of the features in arma2. The biggest target being multiplayer, as most people go straight to that after the campaign, or even right away.

Some people have trouble trying to wrap their head around it. When they see dropping multiplayer numbers, they automaticaly assume its the gameplay, that "only a specialized group of people like it". Its easy to assume this, but its the wrong assumption because even the specialized people are born out of the new people. So it cant be just because its realistic. Which is why I am making my purpose to spread this message.

Told you before: i am not disagreeing with you. I am just saying that this is futile discussion because, without bringing ideas which can work, no one will ever take it seriously into consideration.

I understand some of your frustration, but you see, i have been part of this community since OFP1 was released(dif forum name back then), i know how it works, and although i never had a problem playing the game, or finding a MP server, or even finding the game so hard that the average FPS gamer will not comprehend it, i feel that the friendly user-nes and accessibility of this game have a long way to go until perfect.

Nevertheless, i don't see a proper way of doing it, minus similar approaches to Yoma Addon Synk, which would be adopted by BIS and integrated as a standalone game launcher(have seen it before with other games and developers), or a overhaul of the core engine(which is not gonna happen either way).

[tacticalnuggets 24]

I never questioned what you like, or if you do. I couldn't care less tbh. It is not the matter of this thread either.

That's a very common way of seeing things from a lot of game community members unfortunatly.

You first need to understand that there are certain limitations. I have already described, with details and technical facts what are those, but you keep on ignoring the logical part of this thread, and come back with things like the bolded part above...Pity

Are we talking about changing the interface for what? For OA (which is an stand alone EXPANSION pack) or for A2, through a future patch(which is suppose to be fixing and addressing BUGS, rather than changing core mechanics and adding more features?)

Either way, it is not gonna happen.

Told you before: i am not disagreeing with you. I am just saying that this is futile discussion because, without bringing ideas which can work, no one will ever take it seriously into consideration.

I understand some of your frustration, but you see, i have been part of this community since OFP1 was released(dif forum name back then), i know how it works, and although i never had a problem playing the game, or finding a MP server, or even finding the game so hard that the average FPS gamer will not comprehend it, i feel that the friendly user-nes and accessibility of this game have a long way to go until perfect.

Nevertheless, i don't see a proper way of doing it, minus similar approaches to Yoma Addon Synk, which would be adopted by BIS and integrated as a standalone game launcher(have seen it before with other games and developers), or a overhaul of the core engine(which is not gonna happen either way).

Pufu, people have already told you that mods can be loaded into a game at run time. All of your other arguments are pompous assumptions that they are not compatible with the community. Its very similar to richiespeeds argument in another thread. Which is mostly a belief that arma2's community should remain small. Infact, most of your argument, as I re-read your posts, are mostly philisophical. If you cannot have an open mind when it comes to increasing flexibility and ease of use for new players, then your argument is pointless because I want more players in this game. You have not provided a single technological reason for the inability of BIS to add these features, except the addon one which was dissproved.

Now, I am going to tell you this so you dont waste your time. I know how to code, and I know how memory works. I also know how to network and have an understanding of socket systems. Will I be BIS's employee, no, but I do know for a fact that BIS can implement these things. Dont waste your time arguing that they are not capable. It's probably an insult to BIS programmers.

BTW, you have now misread my posts more than once. (talking about the addons list responsibility)

[An Fiach 10]

Pufu, people have already told you that mods can be loaded into a game at run time. All of your other arguments are pompous assumptions that they are not compatible with the community. Its very similar to richiespeeds argument in another thread. Which is mostly a belief that arma2's community should remain small. Infact, most of your argument, as I re-read your posts, are mostly philisophical. If you cannot have an open mind when it comes to increasing flexibility and ease of use for new players, then your argument is pointless because I want more players in this game. You have not provided a single technological reason for the inability of BIS to add these features, except the addon one which was dissproved.

Now, I am going to tell you this so you dont waste your time. I know how to code, and I know how memory works. I also know how to network and have an understanding of socket systems. Will I be BIS's employee, no, but I do know for a fact that BIS can implement these things. Dont waste your time arguing that they are not capable. It's probably an insult to BIS programmers.

BTW, you have now misread my posts more than once. (talking about the addons list responsibility)

His point was that you are making assumptions without considering how the engine operates, it isn't Unreal Engine and just because another game can do it doesn't mean that this one can.

Since you know about networking I don't have to point out that BIS would have to host a network hub through which all clients must be routed in order to achieve what you want with regard to a lobby. BIS simply will not do that. It costs them money for limited benefit to themselves as a company.

You mentioned Guild Wars being free but ignore the fact that they made their money through DLC packs and up front sales of followup releases. ArmA 2 will never be that popular and BIS cannot produce subsequent titles on such a tight schedule.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

His point was that you are making assumptions without considering how the engine operates, it isn't Unreal Engine and just because another game can do it doesn't mean that this one can.

Since you know about networking I don't have to point out that BIS would have to host a network hub through which all clients must be routed in order to achieve what you want with regard to a lobby. BIS simply will not do that. It costs them money for limited benefit to themselves as a company.

You mentioned Guild Wars being free but ignore the fact that they made their money through DLC packs and up front sales of followup releases. ArmA 2 will never be that popular and BIS cannot produce subsequent titles on such a tight schedule.

That is true. But if they host a forum and website, then cant they host a single server that deals with chat and addon/mod downloads? Then they can patch another socket interface into the game, give it a decent GUI, and their good to go on that. Maybe placebo will be given moderation capabilities in the chat interface. I have seen the heavy patch projects they have released. They can fix a ton of bugs and put in lots of new stuff. I'm sure they could modify the multiplayer section to support these features.

Chat programs are generally very easy to support and do not require much complexity. They can easily run on a UDP protocol and do not use much bandwidth. The group parties probably use more bandwidth, but they could easily operate in much the same way as the chat program. I truly think a single server could handle the entire community, and when it gets bigger because the game is easier to access and set up, then they would have obviously made more money from sales to maybe add another server and set it up as an array of servers. I know it sounds like i'm assuming a lot, but its a very knowledgeable assumption because I understand the loose build of this game.

[PuFu 4600]

Pufu, people have already told you that mods can be loaded into a game at run time. All of your other arguments are pompous assumptions that they are not compatible with the community. Its very similar to richiespeeds argument in another thread. Which is mostly a belief that arma2's community should remain small. Infact, most of your argument, as I re-read your posts, are mostly philisophical. If you cannot have an open mind when it comes to increasing flexibility and ease of use for new players, then your argument is pointless because I want more players in this game. You have not provided a single technological reason for the inability of BIS to add these features, except the addon one which was dissproved.

Now, I am going to tell you this so you dont waste your time. I know how to code, and I know how memory works. I also know how to network and have an understanding of socket systems. Will I be BIS's employee, no, but I do know for a fact that BIS can implement these things. Dont waste your time arguing that they are not capable. It's probably an insult to BIS programmers.

BTW, you have now misread my posts more than once. (talking about the addons list responsibility)

I am not gonna continue this discussion here anymore because:

1. you are living in your own world, that has not relation to a real one

2. you are comparing apples with pies. Being able to do one thing in FSX engine does not mean you can do it in Virtual Reality Engine.

How old are you LAD? i read you are 19 or so? What are the languages you can "code" in? What are your previous modding or developing experience with games?

We are all knowledgeable on the internetz....

That is true. But if they host a forum and website, then cant they host a single server that deals with chat and addon/mod downloads? Then they can patch another socket interface into the game, give it a decent GUI, and their good to go on that. Maybe placebo will be given moderation capabilities in the chat interface. I have seen the heavy patch projects they have released. They can fix a ton of bugs and put in lots of new stuff. I'm sure they could modify the multiplayer section to support these features.

STOP being so sure, just because you said so.

I have asked you before to give me examples from the same industry about things you are putting on the table. Even then, as i previously said it, being able to do it in one game, doesn't mean you will see it happening here.

Chat programs are generally very easy to support and do not require much complexity. They can easily run on a UDP protocol and do not use much bandwidth. The group parties probably use more bandwidth, but they could easily operate in much the same way as the chat program. I truly think a single server could handle the entire community, and when it gets bigger because the game is easier to access and set up, then they would have obviously made more money from sales to maybe add another server and set it up as an array of servers. I know it sounds like i'm assuming a lot, but its a very knowledgeable assumption because I understand the loose build of this game.

LOL on that bolded part.

As said, not gonna bother anymore. Go ahead and live in your own small box

[kklownboy 43]

Does anybody else think this should be implemented as a patch to arma 2 or should it be implemented in operation arrowhead? I think the patch idea would be better, but it would obviously require more time and be harder to do that way. Putting it in a game already in development is far easier.

No. Ingame/multiplayer/browsers/chats,take around the clock "live Admin". Are rife with hax, scriptkiddies and spam hell,can become a major exploit. They never work. If a new A2 gamer is stopped by the multiplayer interface and cant figure out how to get mods then this game isnt for him. Elitist? whatever, this a is a advanced game and it takes real effort to use the community stuff. heck even Valve with Steam friends took YEARS to implement... EA all but nixd this stuff and UBI, wow what a load of crap that became, granted they had Company Dedicated Servers to control the chat, but they lost to the kids/spam /hax as all will eventually. There is no gain for BIS.. considering they already sold the game when the poor confused mup cant get on a server because it says he needs Xmod... Seems you want, what is on Xboxlive ect, controlled console chat...

BIS doesn't need to EVER endorse Mods, but then you understand why that is since you know code and business obligations.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

BTW, you have now misread my posts more than once. (talking about the addons list responsibility)

I am not gonna continue this discussion here anymore because:

1. you are living in your own world, that has not relation to a real one

2. you are comparing apples with pies. Being able to do one thing in FSX engine does not mean you can do it in Virtual Reality Engine.

How old are you LAD? i read you are 19 or so? What are the languages you can "code" in? What are your previous modding or developing experience with games?

We are all knowledgeable on the internetz....

STOP being so sure, just because you said so.

I have asked you before to give me examples from the same industry about things you are putting on the table. Even then, as i previously said it, being able to do it in one game, doesn't mean you will see it happening here.

LOL on that bolded part.

As said, not gonna bother anymore. Go ahead and live in your own small box

Funny, guess you wont discuss this rationaly anymore and have degraded into name calling. Classic fanboy end to an argument. As for a reply to your coding question, c++, perl, and visual basic .net, also have experience with dark gdk c. Seeing your a modder of the ACE project, I guess you have your reasons for being skeptical of what I know, but as I see your end to the argument, its clear you no longer carry that skeptical hunch and can no longer attempt to "school" me on why they cant do it. Cant say I didn't warn ya. Your "in your own world" comment was a big slap to the face of all the brilliant engineers and scientists of the past years. As those people are generally the most intelligent.

I'm pretty sure you know the real person who is living in the small box; the defender of inaccesibility, improper networking techniques, and incredibly ancient server browser interface.

---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------

No. Ingame/multiplayer/browsers/chats,take around the clock "live Admin". Are rife with hax, scriptkiddies and spam hell,can become a major exploit. They never work. If a new A2 gamer is stopped by the multiplayer interface and cant figure out how to get mods then this game isnt for him. Elitist? whatever, this a is a advanced game and it takes real effort to use the community stuff. heck even Valve with Steam friends took YEARS to implement... EA all but nixd this stuff and UBI, wow what a load of crap that became, granted they had Company Dedicated Servers to control the chat, but they lost to the kids/spam /hax as all will eventually. There is no gain for BIS.. considering they already sold the game when the poor confused mup cant get on a server because it says he needs Xmod... Seems you want, what is on Xboxlive ect, controlled console chat...

BIS doesn't need to EVER endorse Mods, but then you understand why that is since you know code and business obligations.

And ArmA2 doesn't already have these problems? Servers have already been raped by a hacker. I dont want controled console chat, I dont want the BULL crap your making up. All I want is a simple ingame accessible chat interface so people can organize events and games in ArmA2. Got a problem with that? Your response leaks a BIG emphasis. Your response requires that a large amount of people join the game. There is nothing wrong with that. You have an irrational phobia that there will be malevolent groups coming in as well. Your phobia is irrational because there already are these groups! So what your really stating is you simply dont want a lot of people playing the game. Why is this? Whats wrong with a boost in player numbers for a realistic game like this? More clans, more competition?