Mid east

[Oligo 1]

Too bad you don't get it. Then again, you can be hardly expected to get it.

I guess people always become what they hate the most.

[Gorgi Knootewoot 0]

i hate hamsters

[ACEJim 0]

I'm sorry but that source is wrong.

Lebensraum was a blanket term that DID NOT refer to getting an "ethnically clean" German community - or "Volk", it refered to Hitler's desire to take vast tracts of land in Russia and the Ukraine to settle germany's "surplus population".

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 05 2002,13:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Too bad you don't get it. Then again, you can be hardly expected to get it.

I guess people always become what they hate the most.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't get it because I've been offline for over an hour and I'mlook for the posts that you're quoting.

[Oligo 1]

Be careful what you hate for you might become it, Gorgi... Soon you'll grow whiskers and a tail.

[ACEJim 0]

Lebensraum is german for "Living space" and the was never any program called "Lebensraum".

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 05 2002,13:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I thought 'controlling the media' used to mean something else?  <span id='postcolor'>

I thought that CNN would have understood clearly the first time that it's a closed military zone.

My heart bleeds borscht for CNN's crew. Jerks. As if we have nothing better to do now.

[scout 0]

even in dir yassin there weren't a total wipe out of the village. and it happened rarley. usually as act of rage (it happened right after the capture of gush-etzion and the murder of all civvies there), dont get me wrong, im not sayin its right im saying it wasnt a policy. we didn't talk about "riding in the bloody streets of Tel-Aviv on the corpses of jews"

im talkin EVERY time. as a policy.

and sorry, i dont take my info from the net, but i know the museum in jerusalem with photos of arabs standing above mutilated corpeses of men ans women, and many documents.

by the way, the were killed after they surrendered.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 05 2002,12:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't get it because I've been offline for over an hour and I'mlook for the posts that you're quoting.<span id='postcolor'>

Awww, it's ok. It wasn't that good a joke anyway.

I have to say this has been one of the most fruitless conversations I have ever had, but it has been a lot of fun nevertheless.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ACEJim @ April 05 2002,13:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Lebensraum is german for "Living space" and the was never any program called "Lebensraum".<span id='postcolor'>

Gee, I guess Yad Vashem really doesn't know what they're talking about. Frankly, I don't see your point - program, concept, idea - just semantics. Choose a word.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 05 2002,12:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I thought that CNN would have understood clearly the first time that it's a closed military zone.

My heart bleeds borscht for CNN's crew. Jerks. As if we have nothing better to do now.<span id='postcolor'>

But you must admit that throwing flashbangs is a far more efficient way of controlling the media than let's say funding pr campaigns.

[ACEJim 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 05 2002,12:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ACEJim @ April 05 2002,13:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Lebensraum is german for "Living space" and the was never any program called "Lebensraum".<span id='postcolor'>

Gee, I guess Yad Vashem really doesn't know what they're talking about. Frankly, I don't see your point - program, concept, idea - just semantics. Choose a word.<span id='postcolor'>

The fact is that Lebensraum was the specific intent colonise Russia, removing the "untermencsen" or subhumans in the process. It had nothing to do with creating a pure aryan volk and there was never a lebensraum program, so it's not a matter of semantics, it's a matter of me being right and you being wrong.

You and Yad Vashem really don't know what you're talking about.

[theavonlady 2]

Deir Yassin

[theavonlady 2]

More Deir Yassin.

[ACEJim 0]

Yeah... another objective, completely unbiased website....

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ACEJim @ April 05 2002,14:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The fact is that Lebensraum was the specific intent colonise Russia, removing the "untermencsen" or subhumans in the process. It had nothing to do with creating a pure aryan volk<span id='postcolor'>

I never said it did. I just saw it mentioned and Scout didn't get it and I didn't get in what context it was being used so I simply supplied to a link defining it. The link at Yad Vashem also does not refer to it as anything to do with creating an Aryan nation.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and there was never a lebensraum program, so it's not a matter of semantics, it's a matter of me being right and you being wrong.<span id='postcolor'>

Your own words sound like a program to me. You said:

"was the specific intent colonise Russia, removing the "untermencsen" or subhumans in the process."

Websters initially defines a "program" as:

pro-gram (proh'gram, -gruhm) n., v. <-grammed> or <-gramed, -gram-ming> or <-gram-ing>

n.

1. a plan of action to accomplish a

specified end.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You and Yad Vashem really don't know what you're talking about.<span id='postcolor'>

Speaks for itself.

[Mjřlner 0]

I don't think anybody can understand war, unless we experience it on our own body. No matter how subjective Avon's statements are, don't blame her. She's in the middle of the war, and very few people have the ability to be objective in such a situation.

God has been lost in this war for so long, neither side has a clue what religion is all about, that seems to be the only truth in this conflict.

How sad and frustrating it must be for people who consider themselves special in the eyes of God, that their biggest contribution to the world in the last decades has been war and destruction.

and another thing...

Let's say for the sake of argument, that my grandfather was a "terrorist" in the second world war, fighting for the freedom of his country which was being occupied by "evil" germans. Perhaps if you had asked an average german housewife at them time, she might have said that my grandfather was "evil", enticing young kids to slingshot rocks at the germans, blowing up german installations, writing secret newspapers, torturing german soldiers for information etc. etc. My grandfather on the other hand, would have been quite convinced that he was fighting "evil", and doing what he did for a just cause.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 05 2002,14:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But you must admit that throwing flashbangs is a far more efficient way of controlling the media than let's say funding pr campaigns.<span id='postcolor'>

I think that Israel's PR stinks, in combination with a skewed international press that has its own agenda.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 04 2002,14:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh, yeah, you could always kill every palestinian man, woman and child. This would end the hostilities pretty fast.

<span id='postcolor'>

Population transfer would be more like it.<span id='postcolor'>

Population transfer? Sounds a lot like ethnic cleansing to me.

That is exactly what the Serbs said (and tried to implement) was the solution for Kosovo.

Actually I find the situations in Israel similar to the one in Yugoslavia a couple of years back. The difference is that it has escalated far more in Israel.

Ok, so there were no suicide bombings in Kosovo, but there were quite many terrorist act against the military and police. The Serbian solution was the one of 'population transfer' - forcing the Kosovars out of Kosovo. Look what that ended in.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mjřlner @ April 05 2002,14:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let's say for the sake of argument, that my grandfather was a "terrorist" in the second world war, fighting for the freedom of his country which was being occupied by "evil" germans. Perhaps if you had asked an average german housewife at them time, she might have said that my grandfather was "evil", enticing young kids to slingshot rocks at the germans, blowing up german installations, writing secret newspapers, torturing german soldiers for information etc. etc. My grandfather on the other hand, would have been quite convinced that he was fighting "evil", and doing what he did for a just cause.<span id='postcolor'>

Nice. More even-handedness. The Nazis can be good and bad and so can the allies.

How demented!

[scout 0]

for arguments sake, lets say these "germans" would agree to retreat, and would actualy retreat, would your grand-father still, try and kill as many "german" civvies?

[Mjřlner 0]

You don't understand my point.

My point is, that in a war, none of the fighting parties can look objectively to the conflict. Obviously.

[Mjřlner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ April 05 2002,13:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">for arguments sake, lets say these "germans" would agree to retreat, and would actualy retreat, would your grand-father still, try and kill as many "german" civvies?<span id='postcolor'>

Well that did happen a lot of places in Europe, after the Germans had capitulated. Germans living in occupied areas were hunted and killed.

[Mjřlner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 05 2002,13:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Nice. More even-handedness. The Nazis can be good and bad and so can the allies.

How demented!<span id='postcolor'>

Do you think I am demented for considering all people to be equal? That would be disturbing...and sad.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 05 2002,14:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Population transfer? Sounds a lot like ethnic cleansing to me.<span id='postcolor'>

Your response is almost a verbatim repeat of someone elses after I mentioned the words "Population Transfer".

So I'll repeat my main two responses:

1. Then don't talk about transfering the Jewish population out of Judea and Samaria.

2. Population transfer has been used legitimately before to resolve or subdue conflicts. The original suggestion of a population transfer in this region was suggested in 1939, by Mojli Amin, a member of the Arab Defense Committee for Palestine:

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/exchange.html

Incidentally, Israel, with Ben Gurion as it's Prime Minister, agreed to the population transfers of Israelis that would have been necessary to abide by the UN partition plan, which would have made Israel even smaller than it wound up being when the Arabs refused to accept any Jewish state in the area. Been like that ever since over here.