Mid east

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 04 2002,15:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So I feel pretty safe in claiming that there is a sentiment of hate in the israelis as well. But then again, I don't live there, so tell me is this true, Avon?<span id='postcolor'>

Of course there's hate here! You seem to be missing the whole point!

Tell me, did the allies hate the axis forces on WWII? Defintely safe to say yes.

Now try applying your concept of "people need to revert back to reason from the emotion". Do you truly think you could deal with the Nazi's that way? And if so, would 3/4 of Europe to be Nazi and a good portion of Asia be Japanese because the allies came to an amicable settlement?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 04 2002,14:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 04 2002,15:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I also understand the palestinians - they are fighting for their lifes and existance - lack of an army brings them to terrorist acts.<span id='postcolor'>

No IDF forces were in area A in September 2000, and only the agreed forces were in area B, when Arafat called the entire Population to arms back then. No tanks were even in strategic positions at that time and it was not Israel who announced an armed struggle against the PA. Get the most elementary facts straight.<span id='postcolor'>

And why was that? Bacause Israel broke the Rabbin/Arafat agreement for Palestine self-rule. So they declared indenpendance and acted accordingly. What do you think, that Arafat woke up one day in September 2000 and said.. "Today I feel like kicking some Jewish butt! ". I don't think so.

I am not justifying their uprising, but there sure as hell was a reason behind it.

I think that the peace proposal by the Saudis was even if naÄf, a good one. Israel returns the land they took in '67 and in return all other arab countries recognise Israel as a legetime country. Without the Arab support and with the land back, there would be no reason for the Palestines to continue fighting.

The other solution seem to be a Palestinian holocaust.. and that doesn't sound too god, does it?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 04 2002,15:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And why was that? Bacause Israel broke the Rabbin/Arafat agreement for Palestine self-rule. So they declared indenpendance and acted accordingly. What do you think, that Arafat woke up one day in September 2000 and said.. "Today I feel like kicking some Jewish butt! ". I don't think so.<span id='postcolor'>

Please state what terms of the Oslo and Wye agreements were unilaterally brokenby Israel.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The other solution seem to be a Palestinian holocaust.. and that doesn't sound too god, does it?<span id='postcolor'>

Who suggested this?

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 04 2002,14:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tell me, did the allies hate the axis forces on WWII? Defintely safe to say yes.

Now try applying your concept of "people need to revert back to reason from the emotion". Do you truly think you could deal with the Nazi's that way? And if so, would 3/4 of Europe to be Nazi and a good portion of Asia be Japanese because the allies came to an amicable settlement?<span id='postcolor'>

Ironic fact: I'm from Finland and we were actually allied to Germany in WWII. So we DID deal with the devil against even bigger (to us) devil, the Soviet Union. So I don't really see the WWII as the monumental good versus evil battle which good won as it is so often portrayed. Anyway, that's kind of missing the point.

Are you comparing the palestinians to nazis? If you are, I find that comparison lacking anything similar between those two. But that's just me.

I'd say that your conflict is about two ordinary peoples stuck into a disagreement about the ownership of some piece of land. And this has escalated skyhigh. Both sides of this conflict are so stuck with their emotional aversion of the other side that any talks of peace are just useless. Thus: "Revert back to reason". It's just a goddamn piece of land.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Like I said, the U.N. should rough up BOTH sides a bit, then keep them seperated by force, and rip Jerusalem out of both Israel AND Palestine.

Brute force, but it works better than using TV reporters as human shields and blowing up cafes and cinemas.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 04 2002,16:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Are you comparing the palestinians to nazis?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes:

Use of Classic Anti-Jewish Stereotypes

"Israel acts according to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion." "'Netanyahu's Plan' completely matches the foundations of the greater Zionist plan which is organized according to specific stages that were determined when the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was composed and when Herzl along with Weizmann traveled around the world in order to determine the appropriate location for the implementation of this conspiracy," according to an article in the official Palestinian Authority (PA) newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah on Nov. 30, 1997.

"The Jews seek to conquer the world." The PA's Minister of Agriculture, Abdel Jawad Saleh, told the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah on Nov. 6, 1997 that "We must expose the Zionist-Colonialist plot and its goals, which destroy not only our people but the entire world."

"Israel is Shylock." "We do not want Shylock-style banks that empty our pockets, but national banks; we have had enough of the Shylock of the lands and settlements," said Hafez al-Barghouti, editor of the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah, in a column on Nov. 5, 1997.

"The Judaized Congress." An article in the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah on Nov.18, 1997 by its editor, Hafez al-Barghouti, referred to the United States Congress as "the Judaized Congress."

"Netanyahu's Talmudic arrogance." On Nov. 4, 1997, the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah published an official biweekly communique from Yasir Arafat's Fatah movement, which referred to Prime Minister Netanyahu's "outdated Talmudic arrogance and his absolute belief that he is the spoiled child of Brooklyn's nymphs."

"The Jews spread death and spill blood." An article in the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah on Oct.31, 1997 condemned "those who spread death and murder and spill blood, and who are said to be our cousins and, like us, 'the children of Abraham,' despite the fact that Abraham did not immigrate to Poland, did not visit New York and New Jersey, and did not live in Russia."

"Israel has a Talmudic quarrel-mongering mentality." The Israeli government exhibits "a Talmudic quarrel-mongering mentality," according to an article in the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah on Oct. 29, 1997. The column also referred to Prime Minister Netanyahu's "blood-sucking lips."

"The Jews live by the Protocols of the Elders of Zion." "These Zionists are not fit to establish a nation or to have their own language or even their own religion. They are nothing more than a hodgepodge," according to an article in the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah on Sept. 2, 1997. Another article in the same issue claimed: "The Jews live by the Talmud and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The conflict between Muslim and Jews is an eternal conflict, similar to the conflict between mankind--the Muslims, and Satan--the Jews, and how unfortunate the Palestinians are that they have to serve as the Muslims' avant garde in the eternal battle of the Muslims and all the nations against the 'nation of Jews.'" (quoted in Ma'ariv, Sept. 12, 1997)

"Chewing of the peace by the teeth of the Talmud." "Netanyahu's claws of hatred dive into our Palestinian blood in search of oxygen-rich blood cells [with] fangs of hatred and the chewing of the peace by the teeth of the Talmud," declared a position paper by Arafat's Fatah faction of the PLO, published in the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah on Oct. 18, 1997.

"The Jews are like Satan." "The conflict between the Jews and the Muslims resembles the conflict between man and Satan," according to an article in the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah on Sept. 1, 1997.

"An enemy which bares its Jewish fangs." On Aug. 6, 1997, the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah published an article which urged the PA to "protect its people and itself from an enemy which bares its Jewish fangs from the four corners of the earth."

"Jews are stingy." "Generosity is an Arab custom and stinginess is a Jewish custom," according to an article in the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah on Aug. 5, 1997.

"Zionism's Talmudic offensive." "Zionist racism reaches its peak with this Talmudic offensive, which tears the pages of the Koran, and which offends the Master of Prophets, Mohammed, and the Blessed Virgin," said Hasan Al-Kashef, director-general of the PA's Ministry of Information, in the PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah on July 7, 1997.

"Jesus was the victim of the roots of Talmudic extremism." "Jesus was the victim of the roots of Talmudic extremism, which is currently waving a national flag, wearing a helmet of a national army and employing state-run terrorism by means of armed settlers and an army," said Hasan Al-Kashef, director-general of the PA's Ministry of Information, in the PA newspaper Al -Hayat Al-Jadidah on July 7, 1997.

"Israel is a demon." Arafat called Israel "a demon" that swallows up everything." (New York Times, Aug. 7, 1996)

That's just a small sampling of direct quotes out of the PA.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you are, I find that comparison lacking anything similar between those two. But that's just me.<span id='postcolor'>

So be it.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 04 2002,16:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Are you comparing the palestinians to nazis?<span id='postcolor'>

I almost forgot, they themselves sometimes make the comparison:

Fuzi Salim Ali Madi, one of the leaders of Arafat's elite unit, Fatah Force 17, goes by the name "Abu Hitler" and named his two sons "Eichmann" and "Hitler." (New York Times, April 6, 1989)

Both "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and "Mein Kampf" are best sellers in the PA (and even more so in Egypt, BTW).

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 04 2002,15:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes:

Use of Classic Anti-Jewish Stereotypes

[Lot of shit deleted]

That's just a small sampling of direct quotes out of the PA.<span id='postcolor'>

Avon, you are quoting people who are a little more elaborate in their use of words, but in no way more intelligent than schoolyard kids calling their enemies "fucking retards". Use of such elaborate hate instilling comments does not make those people nazis, but extreme haters of Israelis (which is not the same thing). Besides, even if the PA or whoever would not spread any hate speech at all, the palestinians would still hate you. The sight of your settlements on what they perceive as their land is enough to make them hate you intensively.

On the other hand, the fact that you are collecting and quoting such PA hate material just points out that you are trying to draw connections between the very sad part in the history of your people (holocaust) and this conflict you have with some ragtag guerrillas craving for independency. I doubt that reason would drive you to draw such connections, but it must be the emotion instilled by the sight of all the dead bodies in the news.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 04 2002,16:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Use of such elaborate hate instilling comments does not make those people nazis, but extreme haters of Israelis (which is not the same thing).<span id='postcolor'>

What about these? Any better?

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of Allah.

...To what an extent the whole existence of this people is based on a continuous lie is shown incomparably by the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, so infinitely hated by the Jews. ... For once this book has become the common property of a people, the Jewish menace may be considered as broken.

...His unfailing instinct in such things scents the original soul  in everyone, and his hostility is assured to anyone who is not spirit of his spirit. Since the Jew is not the attacked but the attacker, not only anyone who attacks passes as his enemy, but also anyone who resists him. But the means with which he seeks to break such reckless but upright souls is not honest warfare, but lies and slander.

Here he stops at nothing, and in his vileness he becomes so gigantic that no one need be surprised if among our people the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.

The ignorance of the broad masses about the inner nature of the Jew ... make the people an easy victim for this Jewish campaign of lies.

Slowly fear and the Zionist weapon of Jewry descend like a nightmare on the mind and soul of decent people.

They begin to tremble before the terrible enemy (the Jews)and thus have become his final victim.

The Jew’s domination in Palestine seems so assured that now not only can he call himself a Jew again, but he ruthlessly admits his ultimate national and political designs. A section of his race openly owns itself to be a foreign people, yet even here they lie. For while the Zionists try to make the rest of the world believe that the national consciousness of the Jew finds its satisfaction in the creation of a Jewish state, the Jews again slyly dupe the Arabs. It doesn’t even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there; all they want is a central organization for their international world swindle, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.

How close the Zionists see approaching victory can be seen by the hideous aspect which their relations with the members of other peoples takes on.

In the organized mass of Zionism he has found the weapon which lets him dispense with democracy and in its stead allows him to subjugate and govern the Palestinians with a dictatorial and brutal fist.

The Zionists refuse the Palestinian state the means for its self-preservation, destroys the foundations of all national self-maintenance and defense, destroys faith in the leadership, scoffs at its history and past, and drags everything that is truly great into the gutter.

The democratic Israeli becomes the blood-Jew and tyrant over peoples. In a few years he tries to exterminate the national intelligentsia and by robbing the peoples of their natural intellectual leadership makes them ripe for the slave’s lot of permanent subjugation.

The end is not only the end of the freedom of the Palestinian people oppressed by the Jew, but also the end of this Israeli parasite upon the nations. After the death of his victim, the Zionist vampire sooner or later dies too.

[RedRogue 0]

My thoughts on the supposed captured documents:

Yes, lets keep extremely incrimidating documents in a facility that has been repeatedly bombed and is the most likely target for any Israeli ground offensive........ right.

Please if a hillbilly from Arkansas can think of this possibility I do not think the PLO is this stupid.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RedRogue @ April 04 2002,16:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, lets keep extremely incrimidating documents in a facility that has been repeatedly bombed and is the most likely target for any Israeli ground offensive........ right.

Please if a hillbilly from Arkansas can think of this possibility I do not think the PLO is this stupid.<span id='postcolor'>

Gee, then all those computers with their hard disks and everything else we found there must really have been placed there by us.

I can see who's stupid. BTW, you from Arkansas?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RedRogue @ April 04 2002,16:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My thoughts on the supposed captured documents:

Yes, lets keep extremely incrimidating documents in a facility that has been repeatedly bombed and is the most likely target for any Israeli ground offensive........ right.

Please if a hillbilly from Arkansas can think of this possibility I do not think the PLO is this stupid.<span id='postcolor'>

Oh, I totally forgot: that's the same building that Arafat is trapped inside of. However, I'm sure he really isn't because he wouldn't be this stupid, would he?

[Nagual 0]

Another factor to be considered is the following. In 2001, belgium passed laws that let it courts hear cases about "crimes against humanity", one such case is being levelled at Ariel Sharon. Familiy members and survivors of the the horrific insantiy that took place at the massacres of Shatila and Sabra (Beirut) in '82, are holding Sharon responsible. Sharon was defence minister at the time, and used the idea that plo soldiers were in the camps to slaughter, rape and tourture over 2000 palestinian women, children and elders. It took 36 hours, Sharon was aware, he did not stop even though he could.

If that case goes ahead, there will beno more Sharon. Elie Hobeika, one of the men under Sharons' command, who was there when the idf/lf went into the camps, agreed to testify against Sharon, but was blown to bits the day after saying he would.

Hmmm..

Anyhoo, it is a seriously fucked situation. I dont believe in the concept of good and evil, anyone thinking that is involved for starters is so way of the mark. If people will not talk, they will fight. People will not talk under the confines of self importance, it is the force that cause people to be "offended", or slighted. Peopl cannot possibly listen under these circumstances, as while "listening" people are already thinking of their defensive remark, doh...

Another thing folks are probably not aware of, and it probably doesnt matter to anyone here, but.. running parrell to this conflict has been the playing out of the Stargate, a very rare archealogical / astronomical event. It was discovered by respected author and UK researcher Adrian Gilbert. In short, the patterns in the sky, and the solar system, and certain location such as giza, are currently exactly the same as 2000 years ago, when good ol hesus was meant be around. Anyway, the biggest Stargate so far is appearing right smack ontop of israel. At the very least (electromagentic wavelengths) this causes tension. Like i said, that probably doesnt mean anything to anyone here, so............

[KingBeast 0]

Ah i leave for an hour of OFP and what do i come back to? tsktsk im very dissapointed children.

Now get you to bed, no supper for you tonight.

[RedRogue 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 04 2002,14:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tell me, did the allies hate the axis forces on WWII? Defintely safe to say yes.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, but do we still hate Germany, Italy, or Japan.

I don't know many Americans or any at all infact that go around saying "Fucking Germans, or that the Japanese are evil" The war is over, no real hatred or resentment about it.

Thats the difference Avon, Your "war" will never be over. It just goes on and on add infinitium. The hatred never stops, please tell me why Israeli tanks needed to run over civilian vehicles when advancing into Bethlehem. Other than the men/women crewing those vehicles have no morality when it concerns Palestinian property or life.

Currently there is a close friend of my family that was doing some missionary work thru the Southern Baptist here and was there to see the Nativity Church and the city of Bethlehem.

The last message recieved from her said she was not being allowed to leave Bethlehem, bodies of the dead lay in the streets as noone could get to them because of Palestinian and Israeli gunfire, and that food was running low.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 04 2002,07:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok, without appointing blame here I have a question.

What do you think may be the outcome of the current situation in Israel / Palestine?

I mean, it has all escalated to the extremes. Even the Vatican has woken from a slumber and made statements. The Christian Church of Nativity (sp) is under siege. International protesters have been fired on. Journalists are being thrown out of the area. Egypt has cut diplomatic ties with Israel.

What can this lead to? Speculate.<span id='postcolor'>

Dunno if this was said or not..still wading through the topic....

I heard (and read) Egypt only SUSPENDED talks with Israel, and even made a point to say that they weren't cutting of diplomatic ties....course I haven't checked the news this morning yet....

brb....

[KingBeast 0]

I heard that Egypt had cut all diplomatic ties with Israel except those that could be beneficial to the Palestinian cause.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 04 2002,09:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"BTW dont try to shithammer the US and blame it for this fucked up shit over there, last I checked the US hasnt suicide bombed anyone any isrealies or attacked any palestinians with tanks, so lets just try and stick to the fucking topic..."

No, the US are not to blame. But they are a part of the problem, just like the UN. They should have attempted to put an end to this long ago. They are letting the conflict continue when they have the power to stop it.<span id='postcolor'>

People over-estimate the US's ability to control Israel or Palestine, as if whatever we tell them to do they will do. As if the US is some kind of country they all obey....ain't that way...

All our attempts to peacefully end it have failed, going back a LONG way, so why do people think the US has this magical ability to just end it?

This conflict right now comes down to two very old, very stubborn, very set in their ways men who are letting the animosity towards each other cloud their judgement to the detriment of their respective national interests.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ACEJim @ April 04 2002,11:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ April 04 2002,10:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Don't say israel stole that land,they had to go somewhere.Plus the other  middle-east countries sure didn't care when they control the land.<span id='postcolor'>

See you just don't know what you are talking about. According to the UN the building of Isreali settlements on palestinian land that was occupied during the various wars Isreal has had with its neighbours is a war crime.

Thats the land they've stolen.<span id='postcolor'>

Show me where. Thats the stupidest fuckin' thing I've ever heard.

Its not a war crime to sneak attack a country and try to utterly obliterate it....but it IS a war crime to push those jackasses back, taking some of their former land, and moving in.

Fuckin' retarded....

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Another factor to be considered is the following. In 2001, belgium passed laws that let it courts hear cases about "crimes against humanity", one such case is being levelled at Ariel Sharon.

<span id='postcolor'>

(Here we go again).

It is now being considered for dismissal. Belgium has nothing but headaches from this law. Two can play at this game.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Familiy members and survivors of the the horrific insantiy that took place at the massacres of Shatila and Sabra (Beirut) in '82, are holding Sharon responsible.

<span id='postcolor'>

That's nice but he wasn't.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Sharon was defence minister at the time, and used the idea that plo soldiers were in the camps to slaughter, rape and tourture over 2000 palestinian women, children and elders.<span id='postcolor'>

You can't even get the most elementary facts straight.

They were Lebanese Phalangist Christians - not PLO soldiers, who were, on the contrary, the victims of the Phalangists.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

It took 36 hours, Sharon was aware, he did not stop even though he could.

<span id='postcolor'>

There is not a single document or witness that Sharon was even aware, let alone able to even partially stop the massacre.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

If that case goes ahead, there will beno more Sharon. Elie Hobeika, one of the men under Sharons' command, who was there when the idf/lf went  into the camps, agreed to testify against Sharon, but was blown to bits the day after saying he would.

Hmmm..

<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmm....... Who killed Elie Hobeika?

Nice that some people like you know for certain.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

I dont believe in the concept of good and evil, anyone thinking that is involved for starters is so way of the mark.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, for the record, I just couldn't disagree with you more.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Another thing folks are probably not aware of, and it probably doesnt matter to anyone here, but.. running parrell to this conflict has been the playing out of the Stargate, a very rare archealogical / astronomical event. It was discovered by respected author and UK researcher Adrian Gilbert. In short, the patterns in the sky, and the solar system, and certain location such as giza, are currently exactly the same as 2000 years ago, when good ol hesus was meant be around. Anyway, the biggest Stargate so far is appearing right smack ontop of israel. At the very least (electromagentic wavelengths) this causes tension. Like i said, that probably doesnt mean anything to anyone here, so............

<span id='postcolor'>

They're coming to take you away, ha-ha, he-he, ho-ho....

[RedRogue 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 04 2002,16:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Gee, then all those computers with their hard disks and everything else we found there must really have been placed there by us.

I can see who's stupid. BTW, you from Arkansas?

Oh, I totally forgot: that's the same building that Arafat is trapped inside of. However, I'm sure he really isn't because he wouldn't be this stupid, would he?<span id='postcolor'>

Gee, then all those computers with their hard disks and everything else we found there must really have been placed there by us.-Avon

Hard Drives can easily be destroyed and made unrecoverable. Infact alot easier and quicker than burning documents. You just need a good electromagnet. Nothing may have been placed there, but how do I know that this harddrive really is from a computer in the PLO headquarters, or the computer is even. Plus how far are vague references being interpreted, with enough thought a person can take the most innocent statement and turn it into a demonic declaration.

I can see who's stupid. BTW, you from Arkansas?-Avon

Wouldn't be the first time. And yup the second flag below is the state flag of Arkansas. Trivia bit, can anyone here tell me why the state flag is like it is.

Oh, I totally forgot: that's the same building that Arafat is trapped inside of. However, I'm sure he really isn't because he wouldn't be this stupid, would he?-Avon

It couldn't be a political and tactical move now could it. By "allowing" himself to be holed up where he is, it now leaves the ball in Israel's court. The next move is theirs now under extreme scrutiny of foreign powers and the UN for trapping him. It reinforces his standing with the Palestinian people, he is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for them. And it doesn't really hinder his activites. He is communicating easily with the outside and if the Israeli army tried to keep him from doing so would just further increase foreign scrutiny.

[RedRogue 0]

This space for rent

I'm gonna push this submit button again cause it didn't show up and I just know this will turn into a double post.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 04 2002,13:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"What I don't understand is how can Israel hold Arafat responsible for all suicide attacks by Palestinians? If some nuthead blows someone up, Arafat is responsible? I don't get that."

If they couldnt hold Arafat and the PA government responsible, they could not occupy their territory and perform the attacks. That is why Arafat is responsible, no matter what.<span id='postcolor'>

Jesus thats a simplistic non-informed way of puttin' it.

There are a variety of reasons they can blame Arafat (and I do too), but let us just look at the main reasons:

Let us all remember he is the leader of the Palestinians and the PLA.

Suicide bombers have come from his own groups and factions. Israel says for him to clean it up. He does nothing.

He double talks. He'll call for a jihad at a Palestinian rally and then on the same day go meet the Israeli PM and spout to the world media how he wants peace.

In my view...that opens yourself up for blame.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RedRogue @ April 04 2002,17:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">please tell me why Israeli tanks needed to run over civilian vehicles when advancing into Bethlehem.<span id='postcolor'>

Because they were used to block the streets by the PA. This is your problem? Chances are those may have been Israeli cars anyway.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Other than the men/women crewing those vehicles have no morality when it concerns Palestinian property or life.<span id='postcolor'>

You got the wrong address, buster. Cry for their cars, the poor Palestinians.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Currently there is a close friend of my family that was doing some missionary work thru the Southern Baptist here and was there to see the Nativity Church and the city of Bethlehem.

The last message recieved from her said she was not being allowed to leave Bethlehem, bodies of the dead lay in the streets as noone could get to them because of Palestinian and Israeli gunfire, and that food was running low.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, sounds like a war, doesn't it? More on the Chruch of the Nativity here and here.

[Nagual 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 04 2002,16:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

Avon, I could not expect anything less from you, so i am not suprised, and do not blame you. I certainly didnt expect you to go," Ok, i am defending a killer, whatever whatever". I deal with this shit everyday, and am not going to get into a debate (make that tit for tat) with you over this. The likelyhood of you actually altering your view about things is zero, the same applies to anyone who is blindly fixed into their view of the world. At the end of the day, i could not give a shit. What is next, should we throw virtual rocks while you shoot us with a virtual tank? Lets load up a game of gimbal tossers vs Abrams.

Ha, the folly of even talking about these things in person, let alone here. You are doing well, keep feeding the propaganda and you may well get everyone here believing that your people or angels and arafat and his folks are devils. Do you think Yasser or even osama run around thinking "i am the devil, i am evil incarnate"., lol, yes off course they do dont they.

There is nothing more funny or tragic than seeing propaganda affected minds running around, i love it.

funny farm huh, if you "got the basic facts straight" you would see thats like not believing the pyramids actually exist in egypt, but they dont , do they.