Mid east

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 05 2002,22:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i've pointed on holes in your suggestions.

i wasnt pointing fingers, i was explaining the difficulties in your suggestion.<span id='postcolor'>But whenever we explain to you the difficulties and holes in Israel's policies then we are pointing fingers... right?  mmmkay...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 05 2002,22:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FYI... The West Bank was never Jordanian and Gaza was never Egyptian.  Those nations only agreed to administer those territories until the Palestinian crisis could be resolved.  The land which you settle has been stolen from the Palestinians<span id='postcolor'>

oh, please, get real. administer. uh-huh and there are green martians amongst us. <span id='postcolor'>

Yes Scout, administer...  But you don't have to recognise that historical fact either, which seems to be what your realpolitik* is all about.

* in case you didn't know...

re·al·po·li·tik  n.  A usually expansionist national policy having as its sole principle advancement of the national interest.

[M_S_Holder 0]

The Three Questions

(I) What do the Jews want?

(II) How will George W. give it to them?

(III) Who will it piss off?

I don't care one bit about the "Holy Land," and now we are all getting into WWIII for these bunch of lunitics (Jews and Arabs).

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Im not a moderator M_S_Holder, but there will be one on your case if you dont watch what you say. Im not Jewish or Arabic, but those comments are not appreciated. These are the OFP Forums, not the 4th Riech ones. We talk politics, but most of us have are not on the fanatical side. We do not need hate in these forums!

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Aug. 06 2002,01:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Im not a moderator M_S_Holder, but there will be one on your case if you dont watch what you say. Im not Jewish or Arabic, but those comments are not appreciated. These are the OFP Forums, not the 4th Riech ones. We talk politics, but most of us have are not on the fanatical side. We do not need hate in these forums!<span id='postcolor'>

I second that.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (M_S_Holder @ Aug. 06 2002,01:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Three Questions

(I)  What do the Jews want?

(II) How will George W. give it to them?

(III) Who will it piss off?

I don't care one bit about the "Holy Land," and now we are all getting into WWIII for these bunch of lunitics (Jews and Arabs).<span id='postcolor'>

You were warned about this in another thread. I will not dictate to you what you can believe. I will however demand that you leave it off of this board.

Blatant racism of any sort is not welcome. Consider this a final warning. Another post of this sort will result in a 48 hour post restriction, and any more repeats will result in a permanent ban.

[Bernadotte 0]

M_S_Holder has tried to post a fair comment but unfortunately makes some ugly and unnecessary references to race/religion/ethnicity. Let me see if I can tidy it up a bit:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (M_S_Holder @ Aug. 06 2002,01:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> The Three Questions

(I) What do the Jews want?<span id='postcolor'>

This should probably read, "What does Washington's Israel Lobby want?"

A lot of people wrongly call it the "Jewish Lobby." The vast majority of America's 7 - 8 million Jews have nothing to do with this lobby. Conversely, an ever increasing number of fundamentalist Christians are becoming strong supporters (like our very own Duke of Ray). But the lobby's real support probably comes from Boeing, McDonald Douglas and all the other military hardware contractors who have huge interests in the billions of dollars in annual aid earmarked by Washington for Israel's defence.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (M_S_Holder @ Aug. 06 2002,01:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(II) How will George W. give it to them?<span id='postcolor'>

The Israel Lobby, AIPAC, was ranked by Fortune Magazine to be the 2nd most powerful throughout most of the 90's (the NRA was no. 1). Today it's sunk to about 4th. Still, it's hard to imagine that a lobby representing a foreign nation with a population less than NYC's can be more powerful in Washington than the lobby representing America's pensioners. (Actually in my opinion, it's sick.)

The only president in recent memory to oppose the Israel Lobby was George Bush Sr who only lasted a single term. Junior will not likely make the same mistake in his first 4 years.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (M_S_Holder @ Aug. 06 2002,01:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(III) Who will it piss off?

I don't care one bit about the "Holy Land," and now we are all getting into WWIII for these bunch of lunitics (Jews and Arabs).<span id='postcolor'>

But where's the real conflict? The US defence contractors are obviously happy.

It is only the US oil companies operating in the Middle East who have to fear a popular revolt in places like Saudi Arabia where they want to keep the corrupt leadership in power and in their pockets.

So how can such oil-rich nations continue to keep their people so poor and uneducated? By focusing their attention on what Israel is doing to Palestinians. That's exactly why the government controlled Arab media is so full of hate towards Israel. It's a way of distracting the people while their nations are being robbed of petro-dollars. And any Saudis who find out about the corrupt situation at home are either in the government or get silenced with huge construction or oil field service contracts like the Bin Laden Engineering Co. (but some folks just can't be bought).

So if we do get into WWIII it will be Exxon and Boeing on the one side versus the folks who remain poor in OPEC nations (Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, etc.) on the other side.

And many people, like M_S_Holder, who come close to recognising the real situation actually end up doing Exxon a huge favour by reducing it to something distasteful and Anti-Semitic like "Jews vs Arabs" or something religious like Islam vs the West.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Thank you Bernadotte for answering his questions in a informative and un biased/racist way

[bogo 0]

Bernadotte i am amezed that there are Americans that can see the truth about theit own country.

I hope that there are more Americans that don't close their eyes.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Here is what I belive is going on, and what can end it. So do not get mad! When the Isrealites left Eygpyt , God allowed them to conquer the land of others. Finally the Jews came upon Jericho and took it, but left a family there alive, unlike god had instructed them. They began to do this more and more, and God said the woman who was left alive would be a thorn in their side, and that where I belive the people of the middle east have come from, and this is why they hate the Jews. The only way this can be stoped is from Divine intervinsion or the end of the world. This is what I believe to be fact, to some degree.

[Bernadotte 0]

This might be a good moment to bring back a newspaper story posted by IsthatyouJohnWayne.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ July 13 2002,18:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some prominent Jewish peace campaigners were shouted at by Christian fundamentalists whilst going to some meeting or convention, they called them terrorist lovers, haters of Israel,Jew haters etc.

So here we have a bunch of American Christians shouting at a bunch of Jews for not being Jewish enough (as theyde see it)

Its crazy i tell ya

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">'Israel is right. Palestinians are wrong (except they dont exist, theyre just arabs really), you cannot talk about causes of violence (or non violent solutions) because that amounts to terrorist supporting and justification.

The bible tells us that the Jewish are the rightful inhabitants and must populate Israel for the second coming of christ ,so lets support them (though lets not mention that they must convert to Christianity once theyve finished (re)colonising)

I love Israel...have i ever been there? No.... have i ever met an Israeli? No... but i love Israel, its where our Lord Jesus came from, he was Jewish too you know...

That Arafat ,hes a bad man- Ariel Sharon said so. We like Ariel Sharon, he could almost be Christian....' etc<span id='postcolor'>

<span id='postcolor'>

Duke_of_Ray, do you also believe that all Israelis will eventually have to convert to Christianity?

[bogo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Israelis will eventually have to convert to Christianity?

<span id='postcolor'>

The day they will convert to Christianity is the day where i

belive that i am Superman

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Duke_of_Ray, do you also believe that all Israelis will eventually have to convert to Christianity?<span id='postcolor'>

This is really not on topic, but to awnser your question.... They will have to convert to Christianity if they want to go to Heaven, and I do agree with the statement Isreal is right and palestine is wrong.

[bogo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

They will have to convert to Christianity

<span id='postcolor'>

They haven't converted in 2000 years why will they convert now.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 07 2002,03:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Duke_of_Ray, do you also believe that all Israelis will eventually have to convert to Christianity?<span id='postcolor'>

This is really not on topic, but to awnser your question.... They will have to convert to Christianity if they want to go to Heaven, and I do agree with the statement Isreal is right and palestine is wrong.<span id='postcolor'>

I thought you were going to stop coming out with this stuff?

[Guest]

Congratulations Duke_of_Ray. Your posting rights have been removed for 48h. You were warned several times by different mods to quit the religious drivel. We respect that you believe in something but bringing it up in every possible thread is not acceptable.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bogo @ Aug. 06 2002,12:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bernadotte i am amezed that there are Americans that can see the truth about theit own country.

I hope that there are more Americans that don't close their eyes.<span id='postcolor'>

Unfortunately there are not many.

With more people like Bernadotte around USA, the Middle east would actually have a hope of peace. Currently the do not.

[scout 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But whenever we explain to you the difficulties and holes in Israel's policies then we are pointing fingers... right? <span id='postcolor'>

er........ did i say our policy was the best course? errrrr...... let me quote myself "I cant think a viable solution right now"

unlike you, im not willing to gamble away my country for some wild card that proved to be an extreme. Nevill Chemberline (spelling?) negotiated with Nazi Germany "cause that the govt. there is". well, im not willing to make that mistake.

its so easy to give away others...........as long it doesnt hurt yourself.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So how can such oil-rich nations continue to keep their people so poor and uneducated? By focusing their attention on what Israel is doing to Palestinians. That's exactly why the government controlled Arab media is so full of hate towards Israel.<span id='postcolor'>

does Egypt is "oil rich"? maybe Syria? but the reason you gave is the correct:</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">where they want to keep the corrupt leadership in power <span id='postcolor'> its not the oil companies, its the governments themselves, its a great way to distract people of the corruption in theiri countries by flaming religion.

[bogo 0]

Here is a report on what affect the corfues posed by Israel in the palestinan land is doing to them.

Report

[Bernadotte 0]

Hey folks (bogo, bn880...), I'm not American, but I practically grew up in Detroit (just across the border).  I've been living in Eastern Europe for the past 14 years, however most of what I've picked up about the Mid East has come from US or Israeli sources.

Anyways... thanks for the kind words.  

[scout 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here is a report on what affect the corfues posed by Israel in the palestinan land is doing to them.

<span id='postcolor'>

actually its the fact that they cant go to work in Israel and thus cant make money. in the west bank most Pals have fields and most villages are self sustained.

as the article said, Gaza was hit mostly because, ulike the west bank they cant smuggle into Israel to find work.

Bernadotte: where in eastern europe?

[bogo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

unlike you, im not willing to gamble away my country for some wild card that proved to be an extreme.<span id='postcolor'>

Scout enlighten us with a peace plan wich you will accept?

[scout 0]

essentially, Barak's plan, including the disarmanment of any faction except the Palestinian police. Removal of the PLO from the territories.

BTW. seems that there is an agreement to give away positions within the Gaza strip to the PA, conditioned with keeping the peace. lets see how that'll hold...........

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 07 2002,18:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">im not willing to gamble away my country for some wild card that proved to be an extreme. Nevill Chemberline (spelling?) negotiated with Nazi Germany "cause that the govt. there is". well, im not willing to make that mistake.  its so easy to give away others........... as long it doesnt hurt yourself.<span id='postcolor'>

Get real, man!

Was Neville Chamberlain building British settlements on German soil?  

Did Britain rob over half the German population of their land, homes and businesses, leaving them exiled in refugee camps for generations?

Did Britain ever move its capital to Berlin?

[bogo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 07 2002,20:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">essentially, Barak's plan, including the disarmanment of any faction except the Palestinian police. Removal of the PLO from the territories.

BTW. seems that there is an agreement to give away positions within the Gaza strip to the PA, conditioned with keeping the peace. lets see how that'll hold...........<span id='postcolor'>

What about Jerusalem that was essently the problem. And what about the Settelments.

[scout 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Did Britain rob over half the German population of their land, homes and businesses, leaving them exiled in refugee camps for generations?

<span id='postcolor'> not we decided to fight in 1948 they did! and they lost! i wont take the responsebility to the actions of agrresors! you are day dreaming!

and Jerusalem was Israeli PRIOR '67. it was split to half. the Kenneset resided in Jerusalem PRIOR '67.

get your fact for real!

edit: bogo:

same offer as barak. Eastern Jerusalem neighborhoods under PA control. the old city stay ours. Temple mount stays under the "wakf".

if you are asking about the settlement, take a look on the map offered in Camp-David.