Mid east

[bogo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ July 29 2002,01:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Uhhh...yea it is Isreal's land, what I am saying by relocating the people of Palistine you will give the Isreal people what they deserve,<span id='postcolor'>

I think you better open a history book and start reading.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ July 28 2002,16:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And at the end of the Cold War when Israel needed more immigration, they made a deal with the Soviets to trade US secrets for Russian Jews.  It worked, but their spy, American Jonathon Pollard eventually got caught and is now in a US prison<span id='postcolor'>

Koo koo.........<span id='postcolor'>

Can you be more specific?

Defense Secretary Weinberger even thought Pollard should be shot for probably helping the KGB (through Mossad) to uncover and kill some US agents.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ July 29 2002,00:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Uhhh...yea it is Isreal's land, what I am saying by relocating the people of Palistine you will give the Isreal people what they deserve, this is what I believe. I also believe that the conflict will not end over in the midle east until the world ends so I am going to stop osting in this topic, Adios.  <span id='postcolor'>

It's a pity that every Israel supporter isn't like you.  This whole mess would have been over a long time ago.  Adios.

[Longinius 1]

"Uhhh...yea it is Isreal's land, what I am saying by relocating the people of Palistine you will give the Isreal people what they deserve, this is what I believe. I also believe that the conflict will not end over in the midle east until the world ends so I am going to stop osting in this topic, Adios."

Duke, America belongs to the Indians. Ready to move yet?

[bogo 0]

Scout

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Then was it also a massacre when a bunch of settlers conspired to kill Palestinian civilians on purpose today in Hebron, even though they only managed to shoot a 12-year-old girl looking out from her balcony?

<span id='postcolor'>

Again i whant to bring you to your mind. Do you think with action like this the palestinians need to learn hate from books. What do you think this little brother of this girl will do when he grows up. He has seen the killers of his sister and now he live always with that thought in his mind.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bogo @ July 29 2002,10:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you think with action like this the palestinians need to learn hate from books. What do you think this little brother of this girl will do when he grows up. He has seen the killers of his sister and now he live always with that thought in his mind.<span id='postcolor'>

This is a very interesting thought, bogo.  In fact, I took that very same thought a bit further and ended up at a very ugly conclusion.  Consider the following:

1. The settler cause is supported by Palestinian terrorism because if Israel had security instead of terrorism then there would be peace and the settlers would probably lose their settlements.

2. The settler cause is threatened by Palestinian population growth in the territories.  The faster growth of a non-Jewish population means that Israel will never be able to annex the territories where the settler lives.

Now here's the very ugly part...

With the above 2 goals in mind, what might an angry settler do who enters a house and finds a young Palestinian boy and girl?  Kill the female to keep her from breeding more Arabs and make a future terrorist out of the boy by shooting him in the leg (not to mention killing his sister in front of him).  I told you it was ugly.

Could that possibly be why it happened the way it did?  God I hope I'm wrong.  

[bogo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

God I hope I'm wrong.

<span id='postcolor'>

Me to Bernadotte. I just whant to tell you some facts about the settelment. Scout menntioned that if there will be

a peace the the settelments will be broutght down. Thats not sow in fact in the last peace talks bettewn Barrak and

Arafat it was mentioned that only 90% of the land should be returnd ( from Gaza and Westbank). Sow i am thinking like

this if the israelis keep electing Sharons in power and keep the growth of the settelment. Where will palestina be.

Quoting from Scout

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Kurds are oppressed, both by the turks and Iraqis, killed and gassed, Iran is funding and training the Hizbullah,

responsible for the death of french and US troops, and the killing of several embassy employees, Syria thats now

a security council member, massacred in 1985 in Hamma more then 25000 people, Saudi Arabia, funding organizations

like Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Egypt oppressing Christian Copts, and state funding some of the worst Anti-Jewish

literature (same stuff Nazi germany published), and so on and so on.......

<span id='postcolor'>

I fear that it is our problem. Middel east effects evrybody in away. I fear that the terrorism we see today is

nothing is ges't the top of an iceberg. And it actually dosen't matter how many f16 you have or how many soldiers

you have you can never combat 100% terrorism with arms. The only way you can combat terrorism is by giving people

hope something to live for. I fear that if in 10 to 20 years the settelments will grow and the palestinian will

then see that there is actualy no hope for them ever to gain peace. Then we will have Osamas rising up all over the

middle east. And then the september 11 will only be considerd as one of the many terrorism.

[Bernadotte 0]

What a great pity that Arafat was never more like Gandhi.</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French…What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct…If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs…As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds. -- Mahatma Gandhi quoted in 1938<span id='postcolor'>

[scout 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">According to CNN, the settlers entered a Palestinian house where they shot a 12-year-old girl in the head and her brother in the leg.  There was definitely intention unless you really think it was by accident.  One is not a large number so, of course, it wasn't a massacre.

<span id='postcolor'>

today a video that was shot in this incident was released.

it shows settlers and police/army going through serious fights (fists, clubs etc.)

the police/army had done thier mightiest to stop both of parties.

edit:

you want to know the issues? here are couple:

1. security. and dont blab about our having the stongest military blah blah.

90% of Israel's population can be hit from the "green line" by a 120 mortar.

2. nobody, form extreme right to extreme left, believes the PA can be trusted about anything.

those two problems are what holding any kind of settlement to be reached.

[scout 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Defense Secretary Weinberger even thought Pollard should be shot for probably helping the KGB (through Mossad) to uncover and kill some US agents.<span id='postcolor'>

which we know today to be done by moles in the CIA and the MI-6.

secondly, the info Pollard sent regarded only SIGINT from Arab states.

[bogo 0]

Scout

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

today a video that was shot in this incident was released.

it shows settlers and police/army going through serious fights (fists, clubs etc.)

the police/army had done thier mightiest to stop both of parties.

<span id='postcolor'>

Ok build some more settelments that will shurly help the peace talks.

The israelis always demand that terrorist and should be inprisont. Tell that

settler wich shoot the little girl where is he. Because one thing is shure he

is not in prison.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

. security. and dont blab about our having the stongest military blah blah.

90% of Israel's population can be hit from the "green line" by a 120 mortar.

<span id='postcolor'>

Ohhh i forget how many wars has israel lost. How many countrys have been invaded by israel.

Right now there isen't one singel country in middle east that can threaten Israel.

And israel recives 3 Billion dollars in amrmaent from U.S. There isen't a single arab country

that spends sow much on armament.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

2. nobody, form extreme right to extreme left, believes the PA can be trusted about anything.

<span id='postcolor'>

Since Sharon came to power his first agenda was to quit any peace talks and get rid of Arafat.

Is that how you get confidence. If Sharon was truly comited to peace talks then he will find

some way to sit down and talk peace. But in all his period he has found excuse after excuse to

hit the palestinians. I don't think that's how you achive peace.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Since Sharon came to power his first agenda was to quit any peace talks and get rid of Arafat.

Is that how you get confidence. If Sharon was truly comited to peace talks then he will find

some way to sit down and talk peace. But in all his period he has found excuse after excuse to

hit the palestinians. I don't think that's how you achive peace. <span id='postcolor'> Quite true, continued violence profits the 'Strongman' Sharon.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Ok I know I said I was going to quit posting in this thread, but after what happend yesterday I must say something. Now for shure I support any action Isreal must take to defend itself, I am for the American bombing of terorist positions in Palistine. Palistine is a terriosit state occupying the land of another country. Yeah I know I will get flamed for this, but I do not care.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 01 2002,23:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok I know I said I was going to quit posting in this thread, but after what happend yesterday I must say something. Now for shure I support any action Isreal must take to defend itself, I am for the American bombing of terorist positions in Palistine. Palistine is a terriosit state occupying the land of another country. Yeah I know I will get flamed for this, but I do not care. <span id='postcolor'>

How can you say that!? Don't you know anything about this?

ISRAEL IS OCCUPYING PALESTINE!

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

How can Isreal be occuoying Palestine, when Plaestine is occupying Isreal? That is the land of the Jews there buddy, and please do not tell me you fell sorry for the suicide bombers! They killed Americans and now they should have to pay, just like anybody else. Isreal is fighting for their homeland, Palestine is cuasing the problems.

[scout 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tell that settler wich shoot the little girl where is he. Because one thing is shure he

is not in prison.

<span id='postcolor'>

how do you know? whats your secret intelligence report?

currently there are 5 settlers under investigation and two of them are expected to face charges. unlike any palestinian doing the same. oh, i forgot, they are freedom fighters they are allowed it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ohhh i forget how many wars has israel lost. How many countrys have been invaded by israel.

Right now there isen't one singel country in middle east that can threaten Israel.

And israel recives 3 Billion dollars in amrmaent from U.S. There isen't a single arab country

that spends sow much on armament.

<span id='postcolor'>

once again you show ignorance. the PA doesnt need to declare war, all they have to do is keep a low intesity clashes, shelling and stuff like that.

do you think Israeli public opinion will tolerate a replay of the '50? you are dead wrong.

" Israel cant afford to lose even once........"

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Since Sharon came to power his first agenda was to quit any peace talks and get rid of Arafat.<span id='postcolor'>

real sweet. you moan about Sharon being terrorist and such but comfortbly ignore the fact that Arafat (and his faithful comrades) has built and used terror for its own agenda even when things were apparently peaceful.

kick out the PLO , and you'll see Sharon wont be re-elected.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quite true, continued violence profits the 'Strongman' Sharon.<span id='postcolor'>

for once i agree, and the solution is simple, stop attacks, and you'll see a moderate leader as a PM, e.g, return of normalisation, peace talks and a solution. continue, and you might even see more extreme leader.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 02 2002,09:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the solution is simple, stop attacks, and you'll see a moderate leader as a PM, e.g, return of normalisation, peace talks and a solution. continue, and you might even see more extreme leader.<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some Israelis appear not to comprehend the humiliation and frustration that Palestinians must endure every day as a result of living with the continuing effects of occupation, sustained by the presence of Israeli military forces and settlements in their midst.  -- Mitchell Report<span id='postcolor'>

Scout is typical of some Israelis.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 02 2002,05:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How can Isreal be occuoying Palestine, when Plaestine is occupying Isreal? That is the land of the Jews there buddy, and please do not tell me you fell sorry for the suicide bombers! They killed Americans and now they should have to pay, just like anybody else. Isreal is fighting for their homeland, Palestine is cuasing the problems.<span id='postcolor'>

Palestine is NOT part of Israel. Either learn something about this or don't comment.

The situation is not about Palestinians 'squatting' in Israel!

[scout 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Scout is typical of some Israelis.

<span id='postcolor'>

some Israelis dont think others understand the frustration of the need to live by the sword all their lives.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 02 2002,15:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Scout is typical of some Israelis.

<span id='postcolor'>

some Israelis dont think others understand the frustration of the need to live by the sword all their lives.<span id='postcolor'>

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

[bogo 0]

Scout :

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

how do you know? whats your secret intelligence report?

currently there are 5 settlers under investigation and two of them are expected to face charges.

<span id='postcolor'>

Ya you are right they are gonna be charged for trowing stuff at the israeli police and injuring them

and nothing else.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

unlike any palestinian doing the same. oh,i forgot, they are freedom fighters they are allowed it.

<span id='postcolor'>

How many palestinians are in the isreali jells and how many are tourterd there.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

once again you show ignorance. the PA doesnt need to declare war, all they have to do is keep a low intesity clashes, shelling and stuff like that.

do you think Israeli public opinion will tolerate a replay of the '50? you are dead wrong.

" Israel cant afford to lose even once........"

<span id='postcolor'>

And why are they shelling the israeli towns and why are they killing jews. Man it must be because they

love the live under occupation they love to live in a refuge camp and once a wile the Israelis can come in and

demolish their houses and build Settelments. My god you got to love that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

real sweet. you moan about Sharon being terrorist and such but comfortbly ignore the fact that Arafat

(and his faithful comrades) has built and used terror for its own agenda even when things were apparently peaceful.

kick out the PLO , and you'll see Sharon wont be re-elected.

<span id='postcolor'>

If you think that Arafat is hard to negotiete. Wait until others will come that are 100 times more fanatics.

Sharon depends on that he knows that in fact Arafat is the modarete.

[bogo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 02 2002,00:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok I know I said I was going to quit posting in this thread, but after what happend yesterday I must say something. Now for shure I support any action Isreal must take to defend itself, I am for the American bombing of terorist positions in Palistine. Palistine is a terriosit state occupying the land of another country. Yeah I know I will get flamed for this, but I do not care. <span id='postcolor'>

Like i said before pick up a History Book and start reading the history. U don't know what you are talking about.

[Paratrooper 0]

Arafat isn't the 'evil overlord' of Palestine. He clearly isn't in control of the terrorist groups and with the feeble power of the PA how can he be expected to be?

If Israel is going to have peace, they have to make it with Palestine. If this means concessions then thats what its going to take to stop the bloodshed.

[Kep Kelagin 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bogo @ Aug. 02 2002,15:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Like i said before pick up a History Book and start reading the history. U don't know what you are talking about.<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

So, what History book tells the correct story then There are 1001 versions, and each telling their own story of who got legal rights on Isreal and who not....I think the Arab version will be totally different then what the Isreali will tell u, or the Catholics or whoever...so wich version is correct then??

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kep Kelagin @ Aug. 02 2002,18:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bogo @ Aug. 02 2002,15:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Like i said before pick up a History Book and start reading the history. U don't know what you are talking about.<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

So, what History book tells the correct story then There are 1001 versions, and each telling their own story of who got legal rights on Isreal and who not....I think the Arab version will be totally different then what the Isreali will tell u, or the Catholics or whoever...so wich version is correct then??<span id='postcolor'>

He was talking rubbish about Palestine "occuping part of Israel". This is not a matter of historical perspective, its just nonsense. They are two different places, which both happen to be ruled by Israelis.