Team vs Team Gametypes Poll

[Tom_Anger 0]

I used to be in a Ghost Recon group who matched almost weekly in SEIGE which is attack & defend as we know it in ARMA. Mission starts, BLU has a time limit to reach the SEIGE AREA to win. OPFOR has to keep it secured. Its a no brainer for gamers. One thing these missions will have is a visual identifier in game so that as you move around you can see the SEIGE AREA. I use a few campfire objects going around the AREA so that you can quickly locate it and focus your attempts to get to it. Some may think this is corny, but it makes the gameplay go better without the need to see if you are in the zone or not. I could use cones, but he small flames are better seen from a distance.

With most time put into detailing the mission for layouts, camping spots, and more you can have a very nice set of missions designed around this fun relaxed gametype. Learning how to divert your opponent, move around, find cover spots etc. In a slow paced waiting game this gets very entertaining. Your life is very important, but even if you die you are not left bored because you can toggle between your team players and watch the action unfold.

The tactics and your approach can vary. When the mission starts you may have some snipers/scouts go out to try and locate the enemy. If you try to take them out make sure you don't miss, but you may also want to report the opponent locations to your team to help them in their attempt to sneek to the SEIGE AREA. Also, if you are the attacking team trying to get to the SEIGE AREA and you take out almost all of the other team you can also change your approach and try to go after the 1 or 2 players that are left or still try to get to the SEIGE AREA. If you eliminate the other team you win as well. That goes for both teams. The other day we had 3 left on BLUFOR and OPFOR has only 1 player left. I started to shoot him from a distance and had him on the run. At that time one of our players ran into the SEIGE AREA and we won. Pretty fun. Oh yeah - the SEIGE AREA size is pretty small (10x10 on average), but at that there are objects that make it not as easy to defend. One mission has a house with the SEIGE zone going around 3 corners so you have to watch the entire area. If these missions are too small it takes nothing to enlarge them. I tend to like the smal sizes to allow folks to ready up, move out, and not spend 7+ minutes trying to remotely see how they are going to get to the SEIGE AREA. More focus on what direction to move out in, find cover, try to locate the enemy, etc is more fun if you can do it in a matter of 2-3 minutes, but it is slow paced enough so that anything is possible. Most missions are over in 10 minutes or less which allows for a nice rotation of the maps.

In a match you would probably want to run the same mission 3 times switching sides each round and the team who wins 2 out of 3 wins the match. Good stuff for inner clan matches too. Lock the server and have a great time.

mac is working on some final touches to the next pack update so I am waiting for those and will have all of the gametypes updated. Hopefully some servers can get something going at that point.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Tom_Anger

[Skategodindy 10]

My favorite gametype for TvT has been escort/ambush the convoy. There's a few ones that are in play on the Tactical Gamers Bravo server, which is a ton of fun. It's extremely realistic and can be a little slow paced sometimes (10-15 minutes without a single shot fire/contact), but it's very rewarding when something does go down.

I know that type of thing is not for everyone, but if you enjoy stuff like Generation Kill (excellent HBO mini-series), then something like that TvT mission would probably be right up your alley, since it's not all about the action, though there is a lot of it in small bursts that get really intense (IED's taking out your LAV on point, ect).

[Tom_Anger 0]

For now I am focussing on the basic gametypes that many BF, COD, GR, and other folks are more used to for scrimamges and matches (DM, TDM, SEIGE-AAD, TKOTH). Convoy sounds like it may be a stem off of SEIGE-AAD.

Question:

Do the convoy missions have AI? I played convoy missions in ARMA 1 where both teams had around 3 minutes to prepare and then the AI started off the convoy route. I found that more than not the AI would drive off in weird tangents which made it very unrealistic. The Convoy had to get to a location and instead, after we blew up a couple of vehicles, they drove off in a wooded area and was stuck. Made it unpleasant for players to say the least.

Now if this is a mission with no AI and your team must take a vehicle to a far away location - you may be on the same idea as SEIGE, just in a larger scale. Once SEIGE hopefully catches on this may be something to throw in. All we would have to do is structure a nice base with the necessary vehicles and start the convoy where a real driver and guards make their way to the recon point. It could also be made that the convoy has to go through key checkpoints to structure the path appropriately. With Convoys you would typically have scouts up front making sure roadside bombs and stuff of that nature are clean. Sounds cool....

What are the player slots for those gametypes? 10 v 10, 16 v 16? Just curious. Also where can we look at those missions?

[galzohar 31]

You can't force players to follow a specific path. When they know an ambush is waiting, you pretty much guarantee that they will go in the most unpredictable path possible, and the only place to ambush them is at the actual destination.

[Daniel 0]

Scenario team vs team. Think America's Army. No respawn. Sides don't have to be balanced. ArmA 2 is perfect for it, you just need players that don't excessively winge. ;)

Galzohar, you can get around that using area of operation limitations and area denial methods such as snipers and minefields. If you want a team to get ambushed in a valley, mark the hill tops as minefields and maybe add some chopper patrols overhead.

[galzohar 31]

Forcing them using such extreme manners takes away more realism than it adds, though.

[Taxman 10]

You can't force players to follow a specific path. When they know an ambush is waiting, you pretty much guarantee that they will go in the most unpredictable path possible, and the only place to ambush them is at the actual destination.

You could have a tracking system on map ? something like [sBS]Mac's flag tracking system, you can set it so that it only updates every 1 min, so at least one member would have to be scanning the map constantly to get an idea of the objecjives Path, but not giving them tooooooo much of an advantage.

[sbsmac 0]

Do the convoy missions have AI? I played convoy missions in ARMA 1 where both teams had around 3 minutes to prepare and then the AI started off the convoy route. I found that more than not the AI would drive off in weird tangents which made it very unrealistic. The Convoy had to get to a location and instead, after we blew up a couple of vehicles, they drove off in a wooded area and was stuck. Made it unpleasant for players to say the least.

You could take the approach that it is the vehicles and civilian _passengers_ you need to deliver. V2.03 of the scriptpack as support for placing civilians under player control.

You can't force players to follow a specific path. When they know an ambush is waiting, you pretty much guarantee that they will go in the most unpredictable path possible, and the only place to ambush them is at the actual destination.

I think that's too negative. You can't force them but you can certainly encourage them. Why don't the army drive off-road all the time IRL ? Simply because it is massively less convenient and an ambush at any given point is not certain.

To emulate this, set up a game where the convoy has a time-limit to get from A to B. They can drive off-road but it will take valuable time. Allow the ambushing side a light helicopter for spotting or even have positions being called in automatically as Taxman suggests.

[galzohar 31]

The problem with a pure time limit is that it would be impossible to balance. IRL you drive on roads because you know an ambush is extremely unlikely due to intelligence and overall control of the area, and/or because there isn't any other practical way to drive (while in Arma 2 off road just means slower, but you can always drive off road with any vehicle, and if it's not a civilian car then you can drive at a reasonable speed as well).

Is it possible? Sure. However, the amount of work that needs to be put into desgining and testing it would be immense and I doubt anyone will actually get it done right. Heck, I still don't see all that many "simple attack and defend" missions, and am currently not making them simply because I don't see enough people would actually play them.

[Skategodindy 10]

For now I am focussing on the basic gametypes that many BF, COD, GR, and other folks are more used to for scrimamges and matches (DM, TDM, SEIGE-AAD, TKOTH). Convoy sounds like it may be a stem off of SEIGE-AAD.

Question:

Do the convoy missions have AI? I played convoy missions in ARMA 1 where both teams had around 3 minutes to prepare and then the AI started off the convoy route. I found that more than not the AI would drive off in weird tangents which made it very unrealistic. The Convoy had to get to a location and instead, after we blew up a couple of vehicles, they drove off in a wooded area and was stuck. Made it unpleasant for players to say the least.

Now if this is a mission with no AI and your team must take a vehicle to a far away location - you may be on the same idea as SEIGE, just in a larger scale. Once SEIGE hopefully catches on this may be something to throw in. All we would have to do is structure a nice base with the necessary vehicles and start the convoy where a real driver and guards make their way to the recon point. It could also be made that the convoy has to go through key checkpoints to structure the path appropriately. With Convoys you would typically have scouts up front making sure roadside bombs and stuff of that nature are clean. Sounds cool....

What are the player slots for those gametypes? 10 v 10, 16 v 16? Just curious. Also where can we look at those missions?

In the Convoy mission I most recently played on Tactical Gamers Bravo server, we had to escort a ex-soviet scientist out of Chernarus. There were 3 teams setup: Opfor, which was trying to take out the Dr. Tesla, BLUfor, which was to assist in anyway they can, and Inde, which included the doctor and his 3 bodyguards.

The way the mission was setup, is the ex-soviets wanted Dr. Tesla dead. They started out at an airfield at the very bottom left of the map with supplies, trucks, and transport helicopters. After each town the independents passed through, a warning would appear on the screen telling Opfor that they just passed through (spies were relaying the info was the explanation).

The Independent side, which was composed of Dr. Tesla (player controlled), and his 3 bodyguards, were to escort the doctor to the various checkpoints. There was one in Bortielo(sp), where he had to pickup his laptop with sensitive data needed by the US, Stary Sobor which had other materials that needed to be picked up, and the border checkpoint, which when reached, would give the win to Independents/BLUFOR. The independent side started in a civilian town, on the coast, with only civilian means of transport. Driving anywhere but the road was highly impractical due to the slow movement (not sure if that's coded in game or a custom script) of offroad travel.

The other team is BLUfor, which has the objective of helping to escort Dr. Tesla to the various points. The only way BLUFOR is able to communicate to Independents is by direct communication and global chat (explained as unencrypted radio). I'm not exactly sure what they have at their disposal, expect that I know they have at least 1 Blackhawk, and some nice weapons/load outs.

The teams were 12 OPFOR, 12 BLUFOR, 4 Independent. Basically the only real means of transport were the choppers and the civilian vehicles. Independents were barred from choppers, so they could only travel through civilian vehicles. The chopper was mostly used for transporting reinforcements, because a chopper flying over the convoy would be a dead giveaway.

The way it went down last time I played it was, we had heavy contact with their transport helicopter on our way to the first checkpoint, with only 2 civilian vehicles at the time. They shot the crap out of the one I was in (I was independent bodyguard) and then I had to wait for the 2 minute respawn. The doctor and his passenger in the other car got away and made it to the city. After everyone met up and the doctor and whoever was in command of the USMC talked, we started heading out, with the USMC taking point and scouting ahead.

After pulling over and getting some gas, we headed out towards Stary Sobor. The USMC decided to leave their Designated Marksmen and a rifleman behind, while they swept Stary Sobor and secured it. After about 3 minutes of chilling the woods, we hear a chopper coming from the east. It spots our vehicles parked in the woods (we're on expert settings) and starts blind firing, busting up one of the vehicles pretty bad.

We decide it's time we get the hell out of dodge, so we packed into the 3 vehicles left standing, and headed on an road to get around Stary Sobor. After about 400-800 meters of driving, we got hit by an IED and ambushed. It took out the Marines that were with us (the others were in Stary Sobor), and the doctor's car was messed up. We all bailed and as the doctor was getting out, he got shot in the head.

The mission was called Storm Chaser, created in house by members of Tactical Gamers.

[Tom_Anger 0]

Sounds cool. I'll surely look for it.

From reading what you wrote it looks like something that could easily be created using one of mac's templates. It is very similar to the Insurgency or Capture & Hold - Objective base style. Basically setup the markers on the map, give parameter controls to customize the mission, and have the player slots setup with the correct units.

Some questions though (please don't take any of these questions negatively):

• Were there any AI at all and if so what did they do correctly, incorrectly?
  
• How long do you have to complete the objectives? (10 minutes, 30 minutes, 2 hours...)
  
• How long does a mission typically take?
  
• If you join in the middle of the mission how easy/difficult is it to figure out what the heck is going on, lol (biggest pet peive I have with joining a game in progress)?
  
• Did you get to kill anyone and if so, how many (missions where you play for a while and get no kills has its rewards, but new folks coming to ARMA 2 I think are looking for more action)?
  

It sounds like an interesting mission that require at least 16 players to be worth the experience.

[whisper 0]

Shameless plug : the latest avatar of my CTB mission (see http://dev-heaven.net/wiki/whis-maas ) is I think suitable for being played with a lower number of player, you may want to check it out, Tom.

[Skategodindy 10]

Sounds cool. I'll surely look for it.

From reading what you wrote it looks like something that could easily be created using one of mac's templates. It is very similar to the Insurgency or Capture & Hold - Objective base style. Basically setup the markers on the map, give parameter controls to customize the mission, and have the player slots setup with the correct units.

Some questions though (please don't take any of these questions negatively):

• Were there any AI at all and if so what did they do correctly, incorrectly?
  
• How long do you have to complete the objectives? (10 minutes, 30 minutes, 2 hours...)
  
• How long does a mission typically take?
  
• If you join in the middle of the mission how easy/difficult is it to figure out what the heck is going on, lol (biggest pet peive I have with joining a game in progress)?
  
• Did you get to kill anyone and if so, how many (missions where you play for a while and get no kills has its rewards, but new folks coming to ARMA 2 I think are looking for more action)?
  

It sounds like an interesting mission that require at least 16 players to be worth the experience.

1. The only AI were patrols friendly to Independents and BLUFOR, patrolling the various objectives in the towns and at the border check point.

2. I don't think there's a time limit, because we took a weird route the next time that I played. The only time limit is one initiated by the TG admins when they feel objectives aren't being met (TG missions always have an admin to preside over.)

3. I've played the mission 4 times thus far (very popular on TG), the first one lasted 45 minutes, second one lasted an hour, third one lasted 35 minutes, and the last one lasted about 1 hour and 30 minutes because we opened up the server for the first time, OPFOR had a pub pilot, so it was hard for them to organize decent ambushes.

4. JIP isn't too bad, because two things happen when you JIP in a TG server. The first is, the mission admin, will provide you with a very brief idea of what the teams are doing and tell you to report to your team commander. After which, the team commander will get you briefed and either provide you with transport (BLUFOR/OPFOR) or provide you with a grid reference for you to go to.

5. I like playing the Independent side, usually as Tesla's right hand man, so I rarely saw fire fights, because I was mostly rendezvousing with BLUFOR to give them a SITREP, or running distractions. The other bodyguards saw a decent amount of action (one of them was killed multiple times, was new to the server). As a general thought though, as Independent, you generally do not want to see action, as it is counter intuitive to your goals.

As BLUFOR/OPFOR you'll tend to see a lot more action, because they come into contact a lot more frequently. I think the Marines had 5 decent contacts before we reached Brezino one time I played. Us Independents got a bunch of shiny new M4s compliments of the US Marines and their sacrifice.

Last time I did the mission, we decided to each take a separate car, except for Tesla, who would have a bodyguard drive him in a bus (lots of protection, less suspicious). We then each took different routes, going through various towns (except for the bus, who tried to take as many offroads as possible), so they'd come after us.

I remember Tesla told the other guy who was following me to go left at the fork and for me to go right. About a minute into that route, I heard an explosion coming from the west, turns out one of them had IEDs setup on the left fork .

Edited October 2, 2009 by Skategodindy

[Langnasen 10]

All the options sound pretty much like 30-minute mindless frag-fests to me (please correct me if I'm wrong). Doesn't CoD and the like already do this kind of thing rather well?

[sbsmac 0]

>Attack & Defend (with 1 simple objective and no respawns)

What part of 'no respawns' sounds like a mindless frag-fest ?

To be honest, your comment sounds like it comes from someone who has very little idea about what player-vs-player gaming in OFP/Arma is like.

[galzohar 31]

Also, COD4 does not offer anything that even reminds realistic combat mechanics, so no matter what game mode it is, I'd rather play it in Arma 2 than in COD4.

[draeath 10]

I think that's too negative. You can't force them but you can certainly encourage them. Why don't the army drive off-road all the time IRL ? Simply because it is massively less convenient and an ambush at any given point is not certain.

Well, IRL, you don't know if there will be an ambush, and there likely won't be one. But in ArmA.... if there wasn't, it would be a boring match wouldn't it? You know you will be ambushed... who wants to play a mission where you just drive somewhere, with no action whatsoever?

[.kju 3241]

One option is to have a game mode the allows it, like IXXL or BCL in OFP.

It was a 3 hour 40 v 40 humans match with WGL/FDF and no respawn.

It was a MP campaign with resource management and the goal to capture territory.

Preparing ambushes was a common tactic to intercept armor or supply convoys.

Can you make a 30 minute ambush scenario. Of course. Have one or two sensible

routes, or even disallow leaving a given area along with the timelimit.

[Langnasen 10]

To be honest, your comment sounds like it comes from someone who has very little idea about what player-vs-player gaming in OFP/Arma is like.

Probably, but I've only my experiences on the pubs to go by so far (the original OFP when it first came out, a couple of months with ArmA1 until the bugs drove us away, and a couple of days with this ArmA2).

[Tom_Anger 0]

MISSION PACK HAS BEEN RELEASED FOR VARIOUS GAMETYPES

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=87786

For anyone who decides to host these regularly, I thank you in advance. I hope to schedule an event soon to get some 8 vs 8 SEIGE, TDM, and TKOTH sessions as well.

[Tom_Anger 0]

Bump - just seeing if there are any others who may have missed the polls :-) Looks like we have some majority in here so possibly some folks may want to set up scheduled events. My PVP mission pack has all the goodies in there. I was on a private server today and we had some fun.

[MrXToTheN 10]

Thank you for making this mission pack, I was looking for those types of missions.

The usual ArmA mission types are too complex for me to play for an hour of freetime here and there, but those missions you made are excellent for some quick fun.