Grenade launchers

[Sadico 1]

Why the f*** are grenades that big?? They occupy 2 inventory spaces, so you can only carry 3 of them and 3 magazines!!

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Good question. In fact, its such a good question that it has been covered before

I suppose the reason is because the inventory system is VERY unflexible right now, for example: why can a guy with a Kozlice only carry about 5 or 6 rounds of Kozlice ammo? I can fit 25 or so shotgun shells in the pants I am wearing right now, and I dont even have to pull my bandolier out for that.

[Sadico 1]

Is there any way to make grenades occupy only one space? Even better, having 2 grenades in each space?

[Guest Titanium]

The grenade are a little over-sized. But thats for simplicities sake. Sine they are usd in an M203 Grenade launger, they arent the size of normal hand grenades. They occuby 2 spaces just to keep it simple. BTW, they are also more powerful than a Hand gren. that takes up 1 space. So perhaps that is why?

[LordZach 0]

well mortars take up 2 slots and they're a lot more powerful than a grenade. i've disabled a T-72 with a couple mortars before. the slots are too simplified to make them take up 1 slot because well then who would want to use hand grenades. i don't know how they do things IRL but they gotta have some kind of pouch or something that hold the 40mm nades right? could always make it like laser designator. on your back but takes up 6 slots in the inventory. that would make it more balanced because you wouldn't have much options of extra gear. just my $.02

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Titanium @ Mar. 26 2002,05:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The grenade are a little over-sized.  But thats for simplicities sake. Sine they are usd in an M203 Grenade launger, they arent the size of normal hand grenades.  They occuby 2 spaces just to keep it simple.  BTW, they are also more powerful than a Hand gren. that takes up 1 space. So perhaps that is why?<span id='postcolor'>

Just as a side note, in Real Life, the rounds for the M203 are smaller than fragmentation grenades.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

They dont have a specific pouch for 40 mm grenades, but the guy with the m203 carries a few extra bandoliers stuffed full of them. Also, other squad members would carry extra ammo for him if the squad is going to be in the field or away from resupply for an extended period.

I can understand dumbing down the inventory for simplicity's sake, but a grenade that takes up as much space as a Law is just dumb

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a grenade that takes up as much space as a Law is just dumb<span id='postcolor'>

Agreed!

This can go for a number of other things. The mags for the 9mm MP5 SD come to mind. They are much smaller than 5.56mm NATO mags for the M-16 yet they take up the same space in an inventory slot. The same goes for the Dragunov, the mags are only 10 rounds but they take up the same space in the inventory as a 20 round M-21 magazine. That's just plain dumb.

I carry a standard of 5 mags in the field for my C7A1 (M-16 variant), during wartime I would probaly have an additional bandolier of 150 rounds, thats 300 rounds. The standard loadout in OFP is 120 rounds for the M-16 or AK family. What's up with that?

I could go on and on about different weapons but I'm sure you guys get my point.

Tyler

[Random 0]

Gameplay is more important than realism.

[Mister Frag 0]

I think we all agree on that.

However, for the grenadier or mortar unit, I think a maximum of three rifle grenades / mortars is insufficient.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Random @ Mar. 26 2002,01:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Gameplay is more important than realism.<span id='postcolor'>

not if lack of realism detracts from gameplay

[LordZach 0]

can't we all pretend the supply ships were late so they couldn't issue every soldier a full load of ammo?

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">can't we all pretend the supply ships were late so they couldn't issue every soldier a full load of ammo?<span id='postcolor'>

No. No offence, but it's attitudes like that that keep things from getting fixed to the way they should be.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Gameplay is more important than realism. <span id='postcolor'>

"not if lack of realism detracts from gameplay"

I couldn't have said it better myself! If making things more realistic adds to gameplay, then I say: DO IT!

Tyler

[LordZach 0]

well i don't think they are going to start modifying the inventory slots any time soon

[Tex -USMC- 0]

oh, I dont know about that. I bet in VBS1 the military will make em change it, because right now the amount of gear a soldier can carry is ludicrously unbalanced. For example: A soldier can carry 3 LAWs (the LAW, btw, is a one shot disposable weapon), but an m203 grunt can only carry 3 grenades? cmon. to simulate the size of a 40 mm grenade, hold your thumb and middle finger together to form a ring. that is, depending on your size, a little smaller or a little larger than a 40 mm grenade. I highly doubt the military would go for this kind of incredibly unrealistic setup, and I dont see why we have to either.

It cant be that complicated to resize the inventory system, there arent any major conflicts with the engine about this. Here is how I would fix this problem. double (or triple even) the number of slots available, and then revamp the amount of space each item takes up. For example, because they are of roughly similar size and effect (bear with me here), frags, 40mm grenades, flares, and smoke grenades would take up 1 slot per grenade. A banana clip of Ak74/47 or M16/XM ammo would take up 2 slots per clip, because of the large size of the clip. smaller clips of ammo, for say, an MP5 or Dragunov, would only take up one space (this one is negotiable). LAW or RPG rounds would take up, lets say, 4 slots per rocket, which would keep the amount carryable essentially the same while at the same time making the inventory more flexible. Mortars (actually they are rifle grenades that havent been used by the US military since Korea) would take up about as much space a LAW. To solve the Kozlice ammo problem, you could have say 5 Kozlice bullets or shells take up one slot, but instead of them being individual shots, group them into one clip type form, but make it so that the Kozlice still has to be reloaded every shot.

I think this stuff could be easily implemented (if it hasnt already been done for VBS1), and would add alot to OFPs realism and depth.

[LordZach 0]

cool ideas. of course people would start complaining "OMG THIS IS SO COMPLICATED" but who the hell cares war is not simple

[Miles 0]

I think that, whilst this is probably impossible now and this should be considered for future ofp games, that there should be a complete overhaul of the invontory system, for example currently a soldier carries two or even three LAWs in his webbing, which is stupid. I think there should be a picture of your soldier on the inventory screen with different drop down menus or something to that effect on various parts of the body/uniform, for example there would be an arrow pointing to the webbing with a menu stating what you want to put in there, and this would be limetid to magazines or anything else you would keep in there (im not in the army so i dont know)

Also you would only carry a realistic amount of rockets (unless its normal to have three laws on your back) and all the LAWs would be shown on you. Hand grenades could be clipped to your jacket (now im just going off movies but i assume thats correct) and grenades for your M203 strapped across your chest (i assume thats what a bandolier is)

Well thats all.

[advocatexxx 0]

If you ask me, they should disable anti-armor weapons from being reloaded. I don't know whether Carl Gustav is reloadable, but those that are should be disposable.

It's pretty stupid to see a squad of 4 T-80s, and seeing one LAW soldier take them all out one by one, because he has an ammo crate next to him.

If anti armor weapons worked the way they do in real life, I'm sure anytime a person has a loaded launcher they'd make sure they hit the damn thing.

[DaCrytter 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ Mar. 26 2002,15:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If anti armor weapons worked the way they do in real life, I'm sure anytime a person has a loaded launcher they'd make sure they hit the damn thing.<span id='postcolor'>

Most players already make sure they hit the damn thing. Cos most of the the time, if you miss, the BMP/Tank you've just missed is rather ticked off, and starts looking for you, and you probably won't survive long enough to reload. Of course if you have a Carl Gustav or AT4 then you can't reload anyway, so missing is NOT an option.

And FYI, they got the reloadable status of the LAW and Carl Gustav in the game wrong. The LAW is a one shot, disposable weapon issued as a round of ammunition. The Carl Gustav is a reloadable recoiless rifle, with several types of round available.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

you know, they could make it so that a guy hauls around a couple of LAWs (they arent all that heavy), and just shoots em and throws em away.

[Deus Ex 0]

I heard in OFP Resistance all these Inventory issues will be resolved or sumthing. You can Carry more stuff more ammo.

Im pretty sure I heard something like that.

[Miles 0]

i really hope thats true

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Mar. 26 2002,19:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you know, they could make it so that a guy hauls around a couple of LAWs (they arent all that heavy), and just shoots em and throws em away.<span id='postcolor'>

That's pretty much the reason LAWs in the game are reloadable...it takes away a bit from realism in a way, but in real life, it's not hard for a soldier to carry 3 laws strapped to his back, they are not that heavy (2.3-2.5 kg)

Now think of this from a programmer's point of view....it makes no practical difference  to the player wether the LAW in the game can be reloaded and holds three shots, or wether he can carry three disposable LAWs.  On the other hand, what takes up more system resources? Rendering three separate disposable LAW tubes for each AT soldier, or rendering a single, reloadable LAW?

BIS had to make this game as resource-efficient as possible. remember each island is a whopping 100km^2, and the AI is pretty damn advanced, so that also takes a sizable chunk of resources...and when you consider   how many AI units there can be on a map....you start to get the idea.

The inventory system does need to be revamped, I think grenadiers are  grossly underpowered compared to real life due to lack of combat persistance, and I also believe the Dragunov snipers should be allowed to carry more ammo since their clips are smaller. However, the LAWs IMHO shouldn't really be an issue.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Good point tovarish, but we arent bitching about LAWs, we're bitchin about the inventory in general

Oh well, Im a flight sim kinda guy, so Im a bit of a stickler for realism

[Tovarish 0]

As am I, but as a computer engineering student who's profs tend to be very anal about resource-efficiency, I can see why BIS made some compromizes....there were a few people complaining about the reloadable LAWs vs realistic disposables, as a part of the problems with the inventory. I just wanted to point out why I believe they were implemented this way, and why it really shouldn't be an issue when compared to the grenade launchers/Dragunov magazines,ect.