Warfare Proton Mods

[greenpsycho 10]

Just to follow up, for whatever reason the server does not use more than one core and I'm getting alot better performance on a newer machine.

A couple mild bugs to report:

-can not send units to my buddy in game (already reported, I think)

-I accidentally shot a teammate (or 3), and lost all my money. I know I'm bad for TK'ing, but I couldn't re-earn any money either from supply trucks. Does this reset after you die?

-Also, not a Proton specific bug, but when using a slower ded server, I noticed the AI loiters around the HQ (not enough cpu overhead for the AI commander?), but on a fast rig, they seem to do what they should. I haven't noticed this as much on other maps that use the SecOps module, but maybe its just me

Could someone point me to where the values are for money? I'd like to thoroughly abuse the armory :D

[The.Yield 10]

We did a very long dedicated game last night. Noticed a few things - Not entirely sure if they are just Superpowers issues or Leet, proton specific issues, lol.

After some hours of time, a few of my supply trucks "went stale" - that is to say that they still had move orders and everything but they were just sitting there (verified with status reporting and eyeballing the map coords (I only play in expert, lol)). So I had to give them a no-supply command (by not clicking a town at all) and then give them the desired supply mission again. Which got them going again just fine.

We also noted during play that when we capped a city, we couldn't "buy units" while near the city building (Our units list would never populate). Only when you moved away from the city building would the unit lists populate and were then able to order units from HQ.

Other than that, the game played pretty flawlessly. I love the random city reinforcements - keeps things interesting.

One extra note is that towards the end of the game (several hours) the AI in general bogged down to almost no progress being made from town to town. For about the last hour and a half our entire team of AI were doing pretty much nothing. I think I noted something like one stronghold capped in that entire period of time. That's probably a server/warfare in general issue though.

Again, great work Proton, CRAZY fun warfare mod!

[DarkMater 10]

Is there a way for all vehicles to be created unlocked? It doesn't work the same way from arma1 warfare and haven't found anything new in the forums.

Tried, I communicated this earlier. Individuals are really against realism of being able to get in and out of any vehicle.

And to the theft people, sure I get it, but if I want to play it solo or coop with friends should I be punished for the acts of others on public servers?

[galzohar 31]

Yeah, IMO the only protection against people who hurt their own team is to kick them. Anything else ends up being counter-productive.

[greenpsycho 10]

We also noted during play that when we capped a city, we couldn't "buy units" while near the city building (Our units list would never populate). Only when you moved away from the city building would the unit lists populate and were then able to order units from HQ.

Other than that, the game played pretty flawlessly. I love the random city reinforcements - keeps things interesting.

Well, remember, you can "buy" units from the control point in normal warfare, but its not the same list and function as proton's "buy units". As you said, just move away from the CP and it will populate the correct list (inherent warfare function/bug).

Yes, random reinforcements are sweet......except when the reinforcements consist of a friggin' company of T-90 tanks and they destroy me :(

I'm testing out the AI movement issue right now on a couple different rigs and running them for 24 hours. Will report back, but I'm thinking its just a general performance issue.

[USMCLuke 10]

How feasible is it to mod this to have set starting locations? We usually have to restart our server a good 10 times (at least) in order to get the US and RU HQ's separated by any reasonable distance. Often they start out within 1km of each other. What we'd like to do over on MG's server is to set up the US HQ near Balota Airfield and the RU HQ at the NW "Hardball" Airfield. Having permanent bases with the factories already in place as well as static defenses and fortifications would be a real plus. We're not asking for you to do this yourself, but if you could tell us how to accomplish this within your mod, we'd appreciate it.

Also, which of your files control the available weapons and infantry? We'd like to expand these a bit if you don't plan to.

Can't wait until you release the version that doesn't require an add-on, this has been driving away most of our public players, only the regulars even attempt to install it.

Thanks!

Edited July 23, 2009 by USMCLuke

[galzohar 31]

You're saying there isn't some kind of thing that verifies the bases are at least X distance apart? Seems like another thing to add to the todo list ;)

[Binesi 10]

I must say I'm getting a bit annoyed with the locking. Does it really serve any purpose? Like said earlier, the only defense against an antisocial player is just to kick them. Now we have constant hassles with having to unlock instead of very occasional hassles with a bad player who might steal a vehicle.

I always unlock my vehicle as the first action after ordering a vehicle and have never had any reason to lock it again. I really feel this should be an opt-in and not an opt-out type feature.

*EDIT* One more thing I would add is, come to think of it, the most antisocial behavior I see playing this mod is just players logging in and getting angry that the buy menus don't work until they download the mod. I've seen more than one player start rampaging the friendly base until they get killed or kicked.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Binesi

[greenpsycho 10]

SIDESTARTINGDISTANCE = 350;

commonly located in the initcommon.sqf file, but most likely should be added to Proton's "change_common.sqf"

You can try increasing it to 500-1000 or so and see where that gets you.

[galzohar 31]

If it's 350m then it's definitely too close ;) 1000m should be the bare minimum imo.

[greenpsycho 10]

well, i stole that from another config file from another map. Proton can weigh in, as he seems to have a very deliberate scripting system and locations for all (unlike some of the stock maps *ahem*), but I couldn't find that line anywhere in Proton's map, so maybe its something that needs to be added.

Honestly, I've never had issue with it, the enemy base is always across map, so maybe I just got lucky?

[Proton 11]

I suggest that the ambulance type vehicles are a bit too expensive. I understand they have more value in play now, but I feel they are expensive to the point that no one is using them.

Well, if nobody uses them, it must be too expensive. On Benny's ARMA1 mod they had a cost of >4k, and we were still using them, despite having the queue spawning on town camps which you cannot do here. I would wait a bit yet on making them cheaper.

Also in regard to units the USMC has a HUMV with a TOW but the Russians don't have an equivalent AT mounted on a light vehicle. Is there something similar in a Vodnik? In addition the Russians have special forces available but the USMC is without.

True. I have added the BRDM ATGM from another faction for now.

My last cost suggestion would be simply upping the starting funds for each faction to get the game going faster. Warfare is a bit slow.

Will increase it a bit, but I am a bit afraid of having a steep start means everybody will buy tanks only as they are the best against AI.

I hope arty is not virtual. I really would like, and I think it is necessary to have the opportunity to take out the opposing arty.

I am trying to implement a real one and maybe add virtual only as a last resort extremely expensive option.

As for improvements it would be nice to see some work done on the AI if it is not too out of scope. For example the AI creates lots of static weapons to defend it's HQ - but it doesn't man them after the first or second weapon placement. Also it tends to favor using only a few different units and doesn't use combined arms tactics often enough. For example I was watching the Russians churn out nothing but Tungs and T72s for an hour. Most of the infantry I kill is from the resistance.

I agree that the AI is crap, but it has a lower priority for me now. But I agree that they should man the defenses properly at least.

---------- Post added at 02:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 AM ----------

And in regards to the end-game becoming a cold-war melt down of sorts... Well maybe it should? I mean, if I was in command of a military confrontation of this sort (good thing this is a video game and I AM in command, lol) and it was just devolving into a meat-grinder.... Ya I would likely start just shelling the crap out of the other base, lol. I think that end-game is a natural conclusion.

Pressing buttons is quite boring :) It is also not really realistic as engagements of this scale are never decided by arty duels. Forward bases are mobile and hard to locate, and static ones are usually hardened enough to withstand at least a couple of arty strikes. I think an arty radar will make the endgame much more interesting.

---------- Post added at 02:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 AM ----------

Regarding artillery, I don't know how feasible it is, but it would really balance it out if you'd be able to build cheap defense walls around your base buildings to protect them from indirect artillery impacts.

You already have the option to build walls (construction, defense, wall, 3 sizes), in theory they should protect the building against shells. BIS says the engine models cover from blasts, but never tested it.

Wouldn't making a Utes version be easier than making a scaled-down Chernarus version? The more I think about it the more I think it is needed to have a smaller scale version of this so it is playable with less people and/or in less time.

I will make an Utes version next time as it looks pretty simple to do.

Another thing that would be easy yet very useful is to have every playable soldier spawn with a GPS in the inventory.

I think they already do, at least I always had GPS...

Also I think to balance out making weapons cheaper, make respawning cost 100$ (but allow you to go negative and you will not be able to buy anything until you're positive again). The idea is that I think that a player dying should have similar financial consequences to an AI soldier dying.

The respawn cost is in the scripts of the original Warfare. Is it bugged? Was too busy scripting than playing ;)

How hard would it be to place informative markers on friendly buildings/strongpoints so that players know what they can buy/do and where? Possibly with a toggle option.

I do not believe it worths the amount of work it needs. Players can learn it by playing just a couple of games.

Just wondering - is the AI skill of units that are spawned set to max? If not, it probably should be, as AI with less than max skill is pretty terrible.

No idea. I did not touch the AI yet.

---------- Post added at 02:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 AM ----------

Proton as your project is going stronger and stronger with great people interest, you may

want to consider a project space at dev heaven. :)

kju thanks a lot for the offer. I am a regular visitor on dev-heaven and really like it. However, I think it would be an overkill for this simple hack of a mission. It is not even a team effort yet. The source code is accessible as everything I did is in the mission. Anybody can check that what I am doing is just trying to add already existing functionality what BIS did not, as I was as frustrated as the other people here to see that with a minimal effort it could have been made into something much better.

Btw I think BIS is working hard on really finishing the game at the moment, so I have doubts about going too far with this version. They may entirely replace major Warfare elements in the next patch, there are lots of references which suggest this in the source.

---------- Post added at 02:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 AM ----------

Another thing I've noticed in the basic warfare is that a vehicle that had its crew killed will just remain abandoned in the field even though it is fully functional, and you cannot man it unless you were the one who bought it, and the AI will never bother manning them. Either unlock AI vehicles or teach them to make sure his stuff (vehicles and static defenses) get used.

The problem with it is that some players will shoot their own side's AI to get their vehicles.

---------- Post added at 02:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 AM ----------

Could someone point me to where the values are for money? I'd like to thoroughly abuse the armory :D

The simplest way is just to increase your starting money. It is in the Change_Common.sqf file in the "...PlayerStartingFunds" variables.

---------- Post added at 03:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 AM ----------

So I had to give them a no-supply command (by not clicking a town at all) and then give them the desired supply mission again. Which got them going again just fine.

Were the supplied towns captured by the enemy in the meantime? They are stopping when it happens.

We also noted during play that when we capped a city, we couldn't "buy units" while near the city building (Our units list would never populate). Only when you moved away from the city building would the unit lists populate and were then able to order units from HQ.

Yeah, this is how the scripts are handling the menus in cities, they replace the normal buy ones.

Other than that, the game played pretty flawlessly. I love the random city reinforcements - keeps things interesting.

It is not my merit, it was in the original one as well :) But I think somehow they should be limited, at least the enemy should not just magically conjure three tanks in the middle of an almost occupied city. They should at least come from somewhere.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Proton

[Proton 11]

How feasible is it to mod this to have set starting locations?

I am increasing the starting distance as people here suggested. I still has to check that it actually does something, as it happened in other cases that the variable is there, but it does nothing (town deployment range).

Having permanent bases with the factories already in place as well as static defenses and fortifications would be a real plus. We're not asking for you to do this yourself, but if you could tell us how to accomplish this within your mod, we'd appreciate it.

I think you can place them on the map in the editor, and the scripts will handle the rest, at least there is some functionality to do this. But it may be broken, just like many others are ;)

Also, which of your files control the available weapons and infantry? We'd like to expand these a bit if you don't plan to.

I have already added lots of stuff you have asked (like the colt, xm1014). The config files are in the Common\Config directory.

Can't wait until you release the version that doesn't require an add-on, this has been driving away most of our public players, only the regulars even attempt to install it.

I am sure that removing the addon will boost popularity - but it also had the positive side effect to turn away more causal players until the majority of the bugs were fixed.

---------- Post added at 03:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 AM ----------

I must say I'm getting a bit annoyed with the locking. Does it really serve any purpose? Like said earlier, the only defense against an antisocial player is just to kick them. Now we have constant hassles with having to unlock instead of very occasional hassles with a bad player who might steal a vehicle.

It is an entirely different matter when you are playing with your friends and when letting a mission run on a public server. One griefer may ruin your day. In many cases I have seen people login just to blow up their own HQ. You will never make people on a public server into votekicking for somebody stealing your vehicle. On public servers they usually do not even vote for a commander, either they do not know how to do it, or they do not care. If you have an admin, you have endless debates about who stolen what. The clean solution is to have all vehicles coming locked. Believe me, in ArmA1 warfare we were begging for this functionality.

What I can imagine is to release two versions, one with default vehicles unlocked and one with locked. Or you can modify it on your own. The default is towards the bottom of the Client_BuyUnit.sqf script, change the line which says "_vehicle lock true;".

Edited July 24, 2009 by Proton

[USMCLuke 10]

A couple more things...

In regular Superpowers, Insurgents would spawn as players/side AI approached the town at a gien distance (I know this is a variable somewhere, just haven't found it), in your version, it *seems* slightly delayed, meaning there's no resistance other than maybe a fixed position or two and only once you begin capping the town CP does the faction spawn resistance.

Some of my guys have been able to use artillery, I'm not sure how, I can't replicate it, but they're getting the map option from the action scroll wheel menu with elevation, azimuth, range etc. It's not every time, however. I've tried everything I could think of to try and get it to work. Any ideas on this?

Where in your files would the "SIDESTARTINGDISTANCE =" variable be, or where would I add it? I've been tweaking some functions while testing this on my server and I'd be happy to see if this works since we're solely running your mission now and restarting 10-20 times gets really old (not blaming you, we had this same problem with Superpowers).

I nulled the vehicle lock feature for our server as an admin is always present. We really have more problems with vehicles being locked than bad players. A jerk doesn't ruin anything on our server even though it's always public because we always catch them quickly. FYI Binesi is one of my guys, so a lot of his feedback is from our server.

Thanks Again!

[galzohar 31]

If it's unlocked, he still has to kill the driver to steal it, as the driver is under your command and will not give up his seat... Then you can simply have some kind of TK detection which will make kicking easier (are there currently TK messages for AI or only for players?). If you could buy empty vehicles I'd understand the need to lock them, but since they come with a crew you will have to TK and thus an anti-TK system that is needed regardless will also take care of the vehicle stealing problem, and then vehicles can be unlocked so if the crew is killed someone can take over rather than leave it to rot. It's even more important for static defenses.

I still don't understand the supply truck stuff. I bought a supply truck and drove it back and forth between 2 towns and kept getting money. Am I really supposed to just order the truck to drive back and forth and hope it makes it and gets me money, or is there a more "normal" way to do it?

Regarding artillery protection, I'd double-check if the walls are actually sufficient to protect your base from being decimated by artillery, and if there are any "better" walls in the Arma 2 arsenal that could be added to warfare. If you want me to test specific objects just give me the names and I'll do some target practice with various artilleries ;)

Edited July 24, 2009 by galzohar

[USMCLuke 10]

If you add in static starting positions, you should be able to incorporate this add-on:

Artillery (Support System Package) 1.03 Hotfix 1

Multiplayer Coop Compatible

By SoccerBoy_TW

From what I'm reading, anyway.

And some of my guys can get the arty to work as-is, it seems it's only a "bug". It also seems that it only works on guns placed by the AI Commander? It's really screwed up.

Also, apparently my editing of the locking and setting the min. distance between HQ's was buggy so I reverted to your base scripts.

Edited July 24, 2009 by USMCLuke

[l mandrake 9]

for some reason this mission crashes my server every time (uploaded to mpmissions as normal) - any ideas?

[galzohar 31]

Whatever I tried seemed to not provide adequate protection to the HQ. The best I found was H-barrier large, but even that is way too low - it doesn't even protect against direct fire, not to mention fire coming from above.

It seems like indirect hits don't do much damage to the HQ, while 3 direct hits (at least of MLRS) would destroy it, so protection against indirect hits isn't very useful. At least it takes quite a bit of luck to score a direct hit, but still I wish there was some way to protect yourself against those. I guess we're not getting "upgrade HQ to an underground bunker" mod anytime soon though.

Perhaps the best protection against artillery once your base is found is to make it easy to relocate/rebuild it? That way if you know they found your base you can just fold the HQ and move it before artillery rounds even has a chance to fly over, and you'll only lose the static buildings (which you can also spread out if the HQ is easily mobilized). Right now it seems relocating is just too expensive and isn't viable, so if your base is found and the opposition has the ability to fire artillery, it would be game over. Even if they don't have money for much artillery, they could get lucky and win anyway, which would suck.

[Binesi 10]

In regards to artillery, it has a limited range. I would say only allow it as a static weapon and ensure opposing HQ's are spread way apart. That way you can only shell the enemy HQ if you can capture a town in range to that HQ.

[galzohar 31]

MLRS covers the entire map. I'm not sure but I think howitzers cover all of it as well, and if not then they cover most of it. There's no way to keep the bases safe from artillery other than allowing the bases to be mobile and/or easily rebuildable and/or possible to fortify against the artillery.

[USMCLuke 10]

There aren't MLRS in the US Marine Corps inventory. So you don't have to include it. It is capable of striking the entire area of Chernarus in theory, however the current units only fire a short range and then the rounds explode mid-air.

The M119A1 105mm Howitzer only has an effective range of 14km (max charge) on a standard round. If it is using RAP (Rocket Assisted Projectile) rounds, it is roughly 19.5km. However, I can attest to the fact that RAP rounds make a very distinctive sound overhead as the rocket fires, and the rounds in the game definitely are not RAP rounds, therefore you can limit their range based on an assumption they are firing standard HE. I agree with having the two bases separated by the best possible distance. This goes back to my perm. base idea.

Edited July 26, 2009 by USMCLuke

[Futurenote 10]

What about non arttilery fire zones around both Hq's which makes targeting in lets say a 800m circle around the hq imposible for your opponent and vise versa. Just an idea...

[galzohar 31]

What about non arttilery fire zones around both Hq's which makes targeting in lets say a 800m circle around the hq imposible for your opponent and vise versa. Just an idea...

That would kind of beat the point of having artillery. What are you going to bomb, a random town?

It should be like building superweapons in other RTS games - it's slow, expensive, and doesn't completely annihilate the enemy's base, but is a very powerful tool if the game dragged on for a long enough time, but it should also be possible to build some kind of protection for your base so it's not instantly annihilated on the first artillery volley.

[USMCLuke 10]

I hate to sound like a broken record here, but ArmA 2 is a military combat simulator not just another FPS "shoot 'em up" mindless fragfest. Having artillery on call by no means should be a "game ender", nor is it a "super weapon". Artillery is just another force multiplier on the battlefield. And yes, calling arty on towns is exactly what it should be used for, when required. The main reason to call it is not the annihilation of your opponent's base, but to dislodge enemy forces from an advantageous position such as using it to soften up a heavily fortified city in preparation for a combined arms maneuver into the city. It should have a realistic range, ECR, and effect on morale.

[galzohar 31]

But there isn't really such a thing as a heavily fortified city. Usually players spend their money on mobile units such as tanks etc which would not only be quite resistant to artillery, but also easily drive around in a way that will not let you aim artillery on them. Artillery is something you use on places the enemy is trying to defend, and in warfare the only place the enemy would definitely have units at at all times is his main base.

Note that I didn't mean superweapon in the "kills everything" sense, but rather in the RTS sense. In RTS games those weapons would usually maybe destroy a building or 2 but almost never be a game ender. Of course for that to happen in warfare there needs to be some sort of way to fortify your base against artillery bombings.