i really cant get used to the multiplayer

[Swatman 0]

there are very few servers with less than 150 ping and very few people that ever play except a few servers. adversarial multiplayer i can see is hugely unpopular and it is sad because i like it, however i dont like how sometimes i need to run for 15 minutes before i get killed and have to do it all over again.. ive tried co op and i really have no clue what is going on other than complete the mission, but the ai is the most cheap ai i have ever seen. they see everything.

[walker 0]

Hi Swatman

I am afraid all the other games you learned from taught you wrong. :(

They did it in order to stroke your ego and tell you you were good at a game with Duff AI, UBER body armor, magic medipacs and bouncy pogo boots; so that you would give them more money.

You can always go back there if you want.

Or you can play ArmA and die a lot; and you will die a lot.

You can join a clan and learn to fight well. To sneak and hide and cover your buddies and to trust they are covering you.

You can slog your way through the SP missions and practice, practice, practice in the editor and one day you find that you are good and on a realy good day you can beat 5 ArmA AI in a standup fight.

And in MP that you and your buddies can fight a company of AI and loose less than 25% of your platoon, or take on a rival clan and perform a perfect reverse slope break contact, or Ambush their patrol, break through their ambush on your convoy, or conduct a perfect counter attack, or a breach assault and CQB on a compound, or call in a CAS and prep fire before a major company assault or any of a thousand other missions.

For this is ArmA.

There are plenty of Servers offering public PvP now from 30 to 120 player servers. Many of the ArmA servers are private I suggest you look in the ArmA 2 - SQUADS AND FANPAGES section of the forum:

http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?f=90

Find a clan in you own country.

This may help

http://ttp2.dslyecxi.com/

Read, digest, employ.

Kind Regards walker

[Swatman 0]

private? ive seen pvp servers and the only thing i found in them was massive lag and no fun. and no, games have not taught me wrong, i was a huge fan of arma 1 but the lag i get in this one *not frame rate lag* is just ridiculous. I am not a fan of co op games that much and i can handle the ai fine, i am just saying that i thought this game would finally support huge servers of 120 people and NOT lag. joint ops did it 5 years ago and i have yet to see any other game accomplish that.

[KorJax 10]

Hi Swatman

I am afraid all the other games you learned from taught you wrong. :(

They did it in order to stroke your ego and tell you you were good at a game with Duff AI, UBER body armor, magic medipacs and bouncy pogo boots; so that you would give them more money.

You can always go back there if you want.

Or you can play ArmA and die a lot; and you will die a lot.

You can join a clan and learn to fight well. To sneak and hide and cover your buddies and to trust they are covering you.

You can slog your way through the SP missions and practice, practice, practice in the editor and one day you find that you are good and on a realy good day you can beat 5 ArmA AI in a standup fight.

And in MP that you and your buddies can fight a company of AI and loose less than 25% of your platoon, or take on a rival clan and perform a perfect reverse slope break contact, or Ambush their patrol, break through their ambush on your convoy, or conduct a perfect counter attack, or a breach assault and CQB on a compound, or call in a CAS and prep fire before a major company assault or any of a thousand other missions.

For this is ArmA.

There are plenty of Servers offering public PvP now from 30 to 120 player servers. Many of the ArmA servers are private I suggest you look in the ArmA 2 - SQUADS AND FANPAGES section of the forum:

http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?f=90

Find a clan in you own country.

This may help

http://ttp2.dslyecxi.com/

Read, digest, employ.

Kind Regards walker

Oh please. Stop assuming everyone who comes in here to complain about some part of the multiplayer are addicted to Halo/CoD FPS's and have only played them. Please.

This is a valid complaint, 99% of the multiplayer servers have no clear idea what the player is supposed to be doing.

Not to mention I do not like playing co-op at all because the AI is not very good (the developers did the whole "our AI is stupid most of the time so we're going to make them have xray vision and hightened accuracy to make up for it"). Once the AI get's better (as in, legitmatly better, not broken in waypoints/movement, and doesn't have psychic abilities) I'd love to play more co-op.

Now not all the AI is broken, sometimes it works great. But the majority of AI in a game mode like Domination is absolutely terrible. They don't move around hardly at all, and to make up for it they have super accuracy and super senses. This might be because of the map design, whatever. The point being that co-op AI tends to suck in some way or another.

[Swatman 0]

^thank you for agreesing. i love realism in my games, but without a proper PVP lagless server, it still fails at achieving player vs player

[whisper 0]

private? ive seen pvp servers and the only thing i found in them was massive lag and no fun. and no, games have not taught me wrong, i was a huge fan of arma 1 but the lag i get in this one *not frame rate lag* is just ridiculous. I am not a fan of co op games that much and i can handle the ai fine, i am just saying that i thought this game would finally support huge servers of 120 people and NOT lag. joint ops did it 5 years ago and i have yet to see any other game accomplish that.

With 150 ping minimum to servers, you're indeed prone to have some lag :)

Why is that, btw? I've plenty of servers under the 80ms ping mark

[Heatseeker 0]

I see lots of servers betwean 40 and 60, i always filter servers above 100, 150 is way too high.

[walker 0]

Oh please. Stop assuming everyone who comes in here to complain about some part of the multiplayer are addicted to Halo/CoD FPS's and have only played them. Please.

This is a valid complaint, 99% of the multiplayer servers have no clear idea what the player is supposed to be doing.

Not to mention I do not like playing co-op at all because the AI is not very good (the developers did the whole "our AI is stupid most of the time so we're going to make them have xray vision and hightened accuracy to make up for it"). Once the AI get's better (as in, legitmatly better, not broken in waypoints/movement, and doesn't have psychic abilities) I'd love to play more co-op.

Now not all the AI is broken, sometimes it works great. But the majority of AI in a game mode like Domination is absolutely terrible. They don't move around hardly at all, and to make up for it they have super accuracy and super senses. This might be because of the map design, whatever. The point being that co-op AI tends to suck in some way or another.

Hi KorJax

The links I posted was intended to help.

My post is intended to help some one who is still having problems with the AI hence my posting a link to Dslyecxi's guide. And to help some one who is not finding PvP servers with less than 150 ping. I do not know which country they are in but most countries are now served with plenty of servers. Some of those servers are private so I was pointing out that they should also check the clan servers. Most countries can now get servers in the 30 to 60 ping range. There was a problem with the US until the US DVD release of not enough US servers and US player were having to play across the pond and thus get 150 pings. I some times play on US servers and suffer the same as long as there are not big JIP or griefer spikes they are usually eminently playable. And the main clan I play with has several US members.

The assumptions that clans only play coop is the most condescending puerile rubbish and needs no further comment from me other than the link I gave to the clan section of the forum, which disproves it.

Also stickied in this section of the forum I posted a thread linking to various game form manuals. There is about 60:40 coop to PvP mix in ArmA II which I think is healthy.

On the Matter of AI

I disagree with you on the AI I can usually beat them, I am embarrassed when I can not kill them on at least a 5 to 1 ratio. That is because I play as part of a team. Rambos die all the time in this game same as they do in reality. Evolution, as in Darwin not the game form, has always employed the death penalty.

The assumption that the AI is rubbish is adequately dealt with by the ass kicking it gives those who whine about it as compared to those of us who employ proper doctrine and kick the AI's ass.

People are so used to ego booster game AI that when they get their Ass kicked by ArmA because they are numpties, they spend the first four weeks whining about how hard ArmA is. It takes many of them that long to learn to use cover and concealment. After this learning curve they stop whining and start winning.

The brighter ones read the TTP and Join a clan.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 16, 2009 by walker

[eem 1]

Hi KorJax

(snip... )

The assumption that the AI is rubbish is adequately dealt with by the ass kicking it gives those who whine about it as compared to those of us who employ proper doctrine and kick the AI's ass.

Kind Regards walker

I will repeat that statement... this is largely due to the fact that the engine in ArmA II has decended from a full on military training simulator. It doesn't hurt to have some level of former military trainging either. Some ArmA II players probably even used VBS while in the service which drew them to this game and they will have some distinct advantages.

Even with that said though, there are some annoying opposing force AI bugs/undocumented features that give them sometimes superhuman situational awareness and responsive behaviour(s). That is the part I think is frustrating most players at this point... For me, I just make sure I am even more cautious when engaging. I have seen all kinds of really cool things from infantry AI that ArmA1 never did and for me that is worth the price of admission.. :)

L8r,

eem

[hund 0]

The AI can be tweaked to be a bit more mellow. When we first started up our server they were quite annoying to the point of actually ruining the gameplay through pure aimbottyness, but after we tweaked them to be about as accurate and perceptive as a human player, that all changed.

Every single instance of player death I have seen so far in arma2 so far, has been down to player stupidity. We die because we make mistakes, simple as that.

As for your ping issues, I don't really know what to do there matey. BIS will continue to fix issues in the coming months, and as you well know as an arma1 veteran, excellence does not come as part of the package in BIS games - it slowly gets to that point (like wine, or brandy!). That, I am afraid, is the price of admission.

Another point I would like to make (without knowing if this is the case or not) is to cease measuring arma2 gameplay by using Domination and Evolution as yardsticks. Though they are well-made missions, they are by no means perfect, and there are much better missions out there which give off a better impression of what the game can deliver. Sadly, these missions are not played that much on the public servers, since they require a degree of thoughtfulness, tactical insight and most importantly teamwork - three traits that are often absent in the public arena.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Hund

[{sas}stalker 10]

there are some annoying opposing force AI bugs/undocumented features that give them sometimes superhuman situational awareness and responsive behaviour(s). That is the part I think is frustrating most players at this point... For me, I just make sure I am even more cautious when engaging. I have seen all kinds of really cool things from infantry AI that ArmA1 never did and for me that is worth the price of admission.. :)

L8r,

eem

Indeed, one of which is the bizarre bug of a dead AI still being able to relay your position to the remaining AI, It gets on my wick when people just spout the usual "zomg you've played (insert other FPS here), you simply aren't good enough, this is a sim not a run and gun"

Sounds like a great excuse tbh but please point me to an example of a dead soldier being able to relay the exact co-ords of the person who killed them in RL, once that's been done I will happily concede that this is just me being poor at the game.

[Swatman 0]

i am in the United States and yes there are some servers with 60 ping. the problem with those are they are co op and have 0 people in them. just like in ARMA 1, there is a huge lack of servers for us.

[whisper 0]

Sounds like a great excuse tbh but please point me to an example of a dead soldier being able to relay the exact co-ords of the person who killed them in RL, once that's been done I will happily concede that this is just me being poor at the game.

He wrote "Stalker killed me in the kitchen" with his blood on the ground ;)

[hund 0]

Sounds like a great excuse tbh but please point me to an example of a dead soldier being able to relay the exact co-ords of the person who killed them in RL, once that's been done I will happily concede that this is just me being poor at the game.

Being fixed in 1.03.

Like I said: Brandy!

Oh, and being bad at the game has nothing to do with what the AI does, but all about what you do when they do do, to you. If for example, you shoot the AI, he tells his buddies and they shoot you dead, then you shouldn't have started the fight without being properly sure that you'd survive the consequences. Don't get me wrong I think the deadman's radar of doom is annoying too, but then you just roll with the punches and figure out a way to deal with it until they fix it (which they are, in the next patch).

Don't worry mate, I just pulling yer chain. It's all fun and games.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Hund

[{sas}stalker 10]

Being fixed in 1.03.

Like I said: Brandy!

Oh, and being bad at the game has nothing to do with what the AI does, but all about what you do when they do do, to you. If for example, you shoot the AI, he tells his buddies and they shoot you dead, then you shouldn't have started the fight without being properly sure that you'd survive the consequences. Don't get me wrong I think the deadman's radar of doom is annoying too, but then you just roll with the punches and figure out a way to deal with it until they fix it (which they are, in the next patch).

Don't worry mate, I just pulling yer chain. It's all fun and games.

I rarely get killed in Arma2 tbh, I often play for 2 or 3 hours straight in fact and maybe get killed once or twice, I'm not a rambo player in any way. But all that aside I do wish people would stop the "your just rubbish" replies to people. It is a well documented bug and no amount of "double underhand reverse swing backward upper hand pincer movement coverage from behind whilst in front of the enemy" rubbish will hide the fact.

[hund 0]

"double underhand reverse swing backward upper hand pincer movement coverage from behind whilst in front of the enemy"

That must be the coolest military tactic ever! Do they teach that at SAS school? ;)

[{sas}stalker 10]

of course :p

[KorJax 10]

Hi KorJax

The links I posted was intended to help.

My post is intended to help some one who is still having problems with the AI hence my posting a link to Dslyecxi's guide. And to help some one who is not finding PvP servers with less than 150 ping. I do not know which country they are in but most countries are now served with plenty of servers. Some of those servers are private so I was pointing out that they should also check the clan servers. Most countries can now get servers in the 30 to 60 ping range. There was a problem with the US until the US DVD release of not enough US servers and US player were having to play across the pond and thus get 150 pings. I some times play on US servers and suffer the same as long as there are not big JIP or griefer spikes they are usually eminently playable. And the main clan I play with has several US members.

The assumptions that clans only play coop is the most condescending puerile rubbish and needs no further comment from me other than the link I gave to the clan section of the forum, which disproves it.

Also stickied in this section of the forum I posted a thread linking to various game form manuals. There is about 60:40 coop to PvP mix in ArmA II which I think is healthy.

On the Matter of AI

I disagree with you on the AI I can usually beat them, I am embarrassed when I can not kill them on at least a 5 to 1 ratio. That is because I play as part of a team. Rambos die all the time in this game same as they do in reality. Evolution, as in Darwin not the game form, has always employed the death penalty.

The assumption that the AI is rubbish is adequately dealt with by the ass kicking it gives those who whine about it as compared to those of us who employ proper doctrine and kick the AI's ass.

People are so used to ego booster game AI that when they get their Ass kicked by ArmA because they are numpties, they spend the first four weeks whining about how hard ArmA is. It takes many of them that long to learn to use cover and concealment. After this learning curve they stop whining and start winning.

The brighter ones read the TTP and Join a clan.

Kind Regards walker

Well I'm sorry to say but ArmA 2 has taught you wrong :(

This isn't about teamwork, teamwork isn't the issue for me. Try playing against human players, develop real tactical and strategic movement against dealing with them, and then try playing against AI. Most of the time all the tactics to approach a situation in the game against a human player, doesn't work at all against AI, because of the issues I mentioned. If anything the AI is slightly easier in a CQ enviornment (because they stand around in the missions I've played), but much more difficult in a long range encounter (because they are always aware of your position). However AI are extremely predictbile in their locations while humans are not, which makes it so while the AI will own you easily it's just a matter of knowing what general direction they are spawning from. Humans on the other hand are much more natural, and feel fair to fight against, but have the challenge that you can never be entirely sure where they are approaching you from.

The point being, try playing against human players and you'll realize that your tactics you used against AI will hold a grain of salt against someone who's capable of moving around and flanking you (yet not being garunteed to know where you are yourself at all times). It feels much more natural and fun.

The links you posted are great advice on the otherhand and I myself have read through them before.

I just don't like the few mannerisms I have to take against the AI, which feel unnatural to me, compared to playing against a human. I know the AI isn't perfect but largely this has to do with the fact that the AI is incredibly cheap most of the time and will be able to unrealistically snipe/locate you with ease, when in comparison a human player would not be able to.

[walker 0]

Hi KorJax

What PvP ArmA II missions have you played?

Kind Regards walker

[galzohar 31]

You don't need a dyslexi's guide to beat the AI. You need to play against it a bit on editor missions you make yourself to test when they can and when they can't see you, and at what ranges they can shoot you and what ranges they can kill you with various weapons. Then, you use that information to never give them a chance. Of course if the mission maker limits you to an M16 this can be a problem, but even with M16 you can hit the AI from 300m away and at such a distance he has no chance to see you (until you shoot) and is likely to miss if you're prone in a good spot and he's somehow still alive.

Once you're far enough from the AI, the AI seems to run like a headless chicken.

Vehicles are the same idea, except after you shoot you'll most likely be in range due to how far they're programmed to detect you, so only fire from near cover so that if they survive you can hide and pop out to shoot again after they "forget" you.

Missions making you run 15min to the action are simply bad missions. Granted they may be realistic (though in the grand majority of the cases they're totally NOT realistic either), but it's very bad gameplay. You can make realistic missions that don't have long travel times. Seriously, travel times is one of the things I hated about World of Warcraft and I thought I was done with that (that is, games that make you spend a long time on boring actions so you can spend a little time on fun actions) when I unsubscribed. This also has nothing to do with dyslexi's tactics guide or finding a clan/squad.

For an idea of how you can have a realistic mission with no respawns yet doesn't have long boring periods with short fun periods: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=80136

I don't know where you're getting the 60/40 figure. The grand majority of the servers are COOP, and the grand majority of the COOP servers are Evo/Dom. At least when using my "150 ping, min 3 players" filter settings.

[An Fiach 10]

Ping isnt the issue, up to 250 is acceptable, the issue is packets, lost packets result in 'lag' issues, the higher the ping if course the more likely packet loss will be and it depends on any interference that may occur in transit over the network which causes de-sync.

@Galzohar, I get from 40 ping all the way to 5000 so it either depends on your location in regard to where most servers are or you have really poor service.

[galzohar 31]

I've played many FPS games before, and even with realistic movement speed, it's extremely hard to hit a moving target at range with more than 100ms. It's hard enough to compensate for bullet flight time, having to compensate for a varying ping value makes it an extreme challenge.

I live in Israel, which means I have ~100ms to the best European servers using the best ADSL connection available here, and plenty of servers with under 150ms ping. But when you set it to also have minimum 3 players in the server, at least 1/2 the list gets cut down. So if there 1/2 the servers are running what I want to play but are empty then I don't see them, and don't really want to see them. Like I said when I made my filter settings - "empty servers don't count".

[walker 0]

Hi all

Just a quick reminder there is a Multiplayer manuals thread stickied in the top of this section of the forum that may help you:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=79628

Kind Regards walker

[hund 0]

Missions making you run 15min to the action are simply bad missions.

I dunno man, gameplay is a relative thing. To me, those 15 minutes means freedom of movement rather than boredom for instance, so I'd rather have them than not. My favorite part I think is the anticipation of action more than the action itself; that part is just a means to an end in the effort to complete your assigned objective, preferably with no friendly casualties.

I guess we all play the game differently.

[galzohar 31]

Freedom would be if you could actually choose where you're going. But all missions (at least the playable ones that actually allow you to find an enemy at some point) will send you traveling to the exact same spot/area/zone, as that's your objective. Taking 15 min (or even 3 min) to get to the exact same place over and over is not freedom, it's boredom. It's like you can say that in World of Warcraft flying from town to the dungeon you play in every week is freedom, while in fact it's the exact same mindless action every time.