Berzerk Sobor

[Men_In_Black 10]

ok wtf is everyones obsession with playing this horrible map. It is terrible compared to many other maps that were made. I dont understand why no one would want to play the other maps.

I was on a server last night that had rotating maps on the pvp game type hold and everyone had a blast , it was so much fun. There are some decently small ones and some big ones and medium. My favorite though are the urban warfare ones were there are 6 hold points in a city and you have to get them all.

I also think it is stupid how they make it in those servers where you can capture any of the points were as in the real HOLD you cant go after any fucking thing you go in alphabetical order so there is always one point to attack and one to defend, so it essentially centralizes the combat so you get real fun battles were as in berzerk sobor you just kinda go f off and do your own thing with no team work it is like wtf this game is terrible. :mad:

[krizzo 10]

Sounds like a great Server!

[galzohar 31]

Could just keep it to one zone, there's no significant added gameplay value for having more zones. Most of the times servers aren't populated for anything anywhere near large-scale anyway.

[mosh 0]

ok wtf is everyones obsession with playing this horrible map. It is terrible compared to many other maps that were made. I dont understand why no one would want to play the other maps.

I was on a server last night that had rotating maps on the pvp game type hold and everyone had a blast , it was so much fun. There are some decently small ones and some big ones and medium. My favorite though are the urban warfare ones were there are 6 hold points in a city and you have to get them all.

I also think it is stupid how they make it in those servers where you can capture any of the points were as in the real HOLD you cant go after any fucking thing you go in alphabetical order so there is always one point to attack and one to defend, so it essentially centralizes the combat so you get real fun battles were as in berzerk sobor you just kinda go f off and do your own thing with no team work it is like wtf this game is terrible. :mad:

Welcome to the forums, your first post is to whine about a user made map, which you are not forced to play... can't wait for more from you.

Go host or rent a server and play whatever maps you would like. Problem solved!

[.kju 3243]

AAS is what you are looking for.

[WoodenSpoons 10]

seems a bit harsh i love that map, there are only 3 points to hold anyway so it isnt that much different to having to do them in order, also i think it makes it more interesting to have a 3rd one and it invites more sneaky ways to play, whilst everyone is fighting round 2 other points you sneak round 2 the other and kill whoever is defending it cos the likelyness is there wont be many and they wont be expecting it

also if you dont lyk the map then simply dont play it ther are loads of servers with a veriety of maps with lots of people on them , look out for the map you mention is realy good in your post, i expect someone will be playing it at some point

[scorpionz 10]

I think that Berzerk Sobor is a realistic combat scenario. Combat is not always predictable, clear and precise. In this map, you’re given 3 points to defend or secure and it's up to you on how your team is divided in order to complete your objectives. If you have a good team, than you will be able to split up, communicate and capture or defend the towns effectively. if you don't, than you will lose. This map represents an example of real world events. War is hell!

Additionally, if you don't like the map, don't play it!

[galzohar 31]

How does "look around to make sure no enemy respawned next to you" relate to RL tactics? How does "just die (suicide) and respawn at the other base because your help is needed there" have anything to do with RL tactics?

Sure berserk has tactics to it, but not RL tactics.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Berzerk is great mission its a good 1 hour battle suitable for public PvP. It will always be popular. I have nothing against sequential hold missions they just feel a little old fashioned and artificial to me. So I played them a couple of times and then decided they were not my cup of tea. Others think differently I do not dictate to them what game forms they should play.

Contrary to other peoples opinion Armys do not fight to rules of which town to capture first. They capture objectives as the opportunity arises and as the mix of weapons, units and overall strategy of the Army dictates. In fact it is common ancient and modern tactic of all armies to bypass certain objectives, cut them off and then deal with them latter usually by siege.

Part of Berzerk is realising the strategies. Do you take an agressive posture concentrate on the capture zone (CZ) nearest the enemy's base and ambush their vehicles coming from there? Do you take a defensive posture capture and hold the CZ nearest you then contest the others. Can you use the weapons and position of one CZ to interdict and suppress another? Are the CZs mutually supporting? What threat is one CZ to another? etc. etc.

ArmA II is primarily a cerebral game. It frees the mind from Shoebox and Corridor Prisons of other FPS. Berzerk is in that tradition.

You could never have this discussion in any other FPS because none of this is possible in any other FPS.

Kind regards walker

Edited July 31, 2009 by walker

[galzohar 31]

Contrary to other peoples opinion Armys do not fight to rules of which town to capture first. They capture objectives as the opportunity arises and as the mix of weapons, units and overall strategy of the Army dictates. In fact it is common ancient and modern tactic of all armies to bypass certain objectives, cut them off and then deal with them latter usually by siege.

Nobody in his right mind would send a platoon (and 40 people is less than a platoon) to attack 3 different towns (well, 2 towns and an outpost). If anything you'd send a company (3 platoons), which currently servers can't handle (and the berserk respawn system probably can't handle keeping it playable either).

[randir14 10]

I like it. It's pretty fun using tanks and helicopters to demolish the central town and kill anyone hiding in it. There have been some great moments like when I saw a tank trying to hide a mile away in the woods and snipe us, I just grabbed a javelin and killed him.

Edited July 31, 2009 by randir14

[walker 0]

Nobody in his right mind would send a platoon (and 40 people is less than a platoon) to attack 3 different towns (well, 2 towns and an outpost). If anything you'd send a company (3 platoons), which currently servers can't handle (and the berserk respawn system probably can't handle keeping it playable either).

Hi galzohar

There are several points in your argument that are not correct:

1) You are not taking into account the temporal nature of a respawn based missions. It is not 40 people it is 40 x n respawns. So in-fact it is multiple companies, not a heavy platoon as you mistakenly assume.

2) They are not towns they are in this case two villages and a hill, so a platoon is correct unit to perform such an assault.

3) Depending on the way in which the troops are deployed a CZ can be defended by forty to zero troops.

4) You have ignored the multiplier effect of technology. From helicopters to armor to missiles grenade launchers and artillery.

6) There is a replacement penalty built into the respawn that means if troops are too close to the town then they are subject to prep fires by the enemy and thus they suffer a direct combat power penalty if killed.

7) It is a game mode not a reality mode it has reality factors built in but it is still a game mode.

8) The silliest mistake you make is the assumption that because you think it is not fun other do not too. That one is blown out the water by its popularity.

9) You ignoring Berzerk's history; it was after all the most popular PvP modes in ArmA, and it is similar in nature the game mode Battlefield 1985 in BIS's OFP which in its turn was the most popular PvP mode in BIS's OFP.

galzohar I notice that with the exception of posts in the scripting section of the forum, more or less every single post you make is a knocking post. You knock the game modes other users make. You knock the game. You knock the fact people find ArmA II fun. I understand the nature of post Socratic/Platonic/Aristotelian dialectic form of debate and need for the antithesis; and taking the devils advocate roles seems to suit you; so if that is what you pursue fine, but if not are you sure your happy here? Or is it that you have view of life similar to Marvin in the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy?

I am not knocking you galzohar I enjoy debate though I prefer the multi ordinate to dialectic. It is far more challenging and IMHO a superior mode of thought. While the post Socratic/Platonic/Aristotelian classical form suited mass teaching and hierarchical society and has resulted in many advances in human understanding and technology. I point to the fact that most of the major Philosophical Scientific and Technological advances were made pre the ascendancy of of the Dialectic and that in fact within 100 years of the ascendancy of the dialectic methodology. Greek society was in terminal decline. Also in this modern age, with the concepts of chaos and the uncertainty principle, the possibility of a return to pre Socratic and far eastern modes of thought may prove profitable.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 31, 2009 by walker

[galzohar 31]

Respawns are parallel to "our platoon got eliminated, we need a new one to take over", so no, it's not really simulating a company.

Just because something is successful doesn't mean it can be greatly improved to something even more successful.

The biggest issue with berserk imo is the fact you can respawn straight into a battle. A lot of good tactics get completely destroyed by this feature, and new gametype-specific tactics that have nothing to do with RL have to arise. This isn't a nescessity of the gametype, but rather a design choice that could've been made in a better way, that will prevent people from respawning behind you when attacking and will prevent you from respawning behind people when defending, and also would allow for a more tactical approach in assaulting rather than the "kill everything and capture within 20 seconds or they'll respawn and kill us" approach that is currently nescessary to capture.

Is berserk bad? Of course not. But there are a lot of awesome improvements that can be made.

[Jonnytullwood 10]

What about instead of just PvP let each player control 2-4 AI or more to make the battles alittle larger in scale. So instead of just classic FPS strategy you bring in the squad element of the game, which in my opinion is the reason for the bigger maps.

[walker 0]

Hi Jonnytullwood

That is a diferent Game Mode.

Speak to Zaphod and ask for his cooperation to modify Berzerk to make such a form.

I think it would be intesting. Group respawn until all the squad die. Then whole squad respawns. Different weapon squads. Assault groups gun groups, Tank Groups with tank. Helicopter pilot with, navigator, crew chief, door gunners, etc.

I think such a game form would be interesting.

You could also make it that these group slots, are playable. A very simple variation of Berzerk where the group structure is already defined. And the group commander player can control the AI until all slots are filled.

Kind regards walker