-=seany=- 5 Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) Does anyone remember how intuitive it was to command a vehicle in OFP in tactical view with Manual Fire? You just Left clicked on the terrain and the AI went there. You could lock a target with the Right Mouse Button (ANY target; houses, inf, all vehicles) and get a box and then a diamond to show you had lock. When you where locked, your mouse pointer changed context and pressing left mouse button then fired the gun. To unlock a target you simply Right clicked, and your gunner pointed his gun back the way you where moving. This worked beautifully with Manual Fire and allowed you to drive the tank in Tactical view with ease and engage targets. Was it too easy? yes, some might say so...but you could always switch the difficulty to Veteran and disallow extra views and force you to use the commander position. Then Arma1 came along and made it more difficult and clumsy to use a tank in this "Tactical View" way: There are no longer target boxes for some objects, you have to press 2-1 on the keyboard to set no target. you have to hold space to issue commands to move, you have hold an extra button for "Command Fire" -this even applies for Manual Fire. In Arma1, I, and anyone I ever saw in a vehicle, just drove it on their own and switched positions to use the gun, simply because the AI suck at driving in combat and because you can't Manual Fire and drive at the same time with ease like OFP, so the AI crew are pointless. Not exactly realistic either....less so infact. In Arma2 it's similar to Arma1 but they have now gotten rid of Manual Fire from any other position than the commander's. You also have this forced menu in Tactical View that you can't get rid of and stops you interacting with targets and terrain making you have to hold a Command button with a mouse click to target and fire. Pressing backspace to get rid of the menu (like in Arma1) switches your view to back inside or 3rd person view... Another thing about controls: by Default the Right Mouse Button is set to "Optics" and "Menu Backspace", so any time you press RMB in Tactical to target an object it changes your view. Did they just try to make it confusing for the fun of it? 1. Can we have target boxes for anything that can be targeted like in OFP? Then I could lock and unlock and fire without the need for this command button. 2. Can we please have Manual Fire back for the drivers position? 3. Do we really need that extra forced menu in tactical view? Any time a menu is open at the side it takes priority for the mouse clicks. This is extremely frustrating when you make accidental clicks in Tactical or other views: eg I forgot to hold my Command button in the heat of battle when making a click...now all my AI have disembarked from my tank and are getting riddled... Even out of a vehicle this menu is annoying. Nothing in it is ever useful. I normally want to set my AI to Engaged at will, or go prone or target a enemy. And now compared to Arma1 one, I have to make extra button presses to access these commands...WHY? 4. How can I stop an AI in the commanders seat of a tank lighting everything up he sees, they don't obey any orders? 5. I just don't see what was wrong with OFP's method, I never saw anyone complain about it. Given the AI's inability to quickly respond to orders and generally do what you want them to in the heat of battle, it was nice to be able to have full control of the weapons systems and drive from Tactical view, while engaging targets. But I guess we will all ditch the AI like in Arma1 and just control the tank solo. Which IMO is a shame. *nb: This is not a rant about the AI in any way, I think they are the best AI in any war game and are a true challenge to go against when on foot, in the air, or in a vehicle. This is about the devolution of the Command and control system in vehicles through this series of games. Any opinions? I'm particularly interested in OFP players. Edited July 12, 2009 by -=seany=- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatseeker 0 Posted July 12, 2009 I agree, i dont understand why they made changes that turned a perfect system into a total nightmare. Examples: In OPF the orders to target and shoot were seperate (target/fire). In Arma and Arma II if i target something the a.i. gunner will automatically engage it, if i target something accidently i have a possible friendly fire accident, wasted ammo, a vulnerable vehicle due to reload or all 3 combined! The targeting system... is a wild guess mix betwean right click and tab, often i try to target something using right click and i end up loosing the optics view and switching to 3rd person view!! Also the TAB targeting is very lame, i understand its a leftover from OPF:E and that console games need simplified interfaces but this is very cheap, i'd like to have the old system again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-=seany=- 5 Posted July 12, 2009 More problems arrrrrg, try using the map while in tactical view...This has to be a bug, you can't zoom or just click on the map to issue orders because of that damn menu that's always open. it feels so damn clunky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex72 1 Posted July 12, 2009 Avoid it then. Stop being so clunky with your clicks and choices lol. Nah seriously though - i learnt to play with this - even though at times a friendly has to die... But its that ARMA thing again you know. Either you learn to touch her gently or she will slap you in the face. Hopefully it gets patched - but again i hope more important things are fixed before that. Note i said hopefully so dont get all angry with me. ;) Alex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel 0 Posted July 12, 2009 The thing that's really annoying me at the moment is the left mouse button activating things in the Action Menu. What's the point? Can't turn it off, yet we already have Enter and middle mouse button assigned by default. Not much fun when you put your gear up, then go to fire your rockets only for the game to eject you cause the Action Menu's still open... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.kju 3240 Posted July 12, 2009 > Can we have target boxes for anything that can be targeted like in OFP? Then I could lock and unlock and fire without the need for this command button. What do you mean? If you have sabot, you get the diamond for status locked. You need to make a screenshot. > Can we please have Manual Fire back for the drivers position? What do you mean with driver? You mean group leader, yet being in driver position and not in commander? There is a separate key action called "command fire". It is the cease fire vs fire switch. > Do we really need that extra forced menu in tactical view? Screenshot please. What do you need the tactical view for commanding a tank?! You command a tank in 1st or 3rd person view as commander in a tank. > How can I stop an AI in the commanders seat of a tank lighting everything up he sees, they don't obey any orders? Hold fire command via 'select all - 3 - 2' ie. Or via quick command and mouse use. > I just don't see what was wrong with OFP's method. What do you mean? In tactical view you can no longer use RMB to target an unit right, as it disables the quick menu again. Did you try to assign the lock target key action to a different key? Also you can easily use the quick menu now: 'select all / your team/unit' and LMB click on the unit to attack. The gunner will automatically target and open fire. Perfect. > In OPF the orders to target and shoot were seperate (target/fire). In Arma and Arma II if i target something the a.i. gunner will automatically engage it, This is only true for MG. Yet you can easily switch to 'cease fire' via command fire key action. For sabot/heat you always need to utilize the command fire key action. > Also the TAB targeting is very lame, i understand its a leftover from OPF:E and that console games need simplified interfaces but this is very cheap, i'd like to have the old system again. TAB was already in OFP. Yes it can be improved. Yet it is still the same. The only difference is that as driver you do not have a cursor unlike in OFP. > try using the map while in tactical view Yes that is a bug. Reported in the A2 CIT and hopefully fixed in 1.03. --- Bottom line. * Yes there are still bugs in there. * Yes it could be improved. * Yes commander view not automatically staying on target if you target an unit is annoying, yet probably realistic what most people whine for here all day long. * Yes you need to revise your controls. * Yes you need to learn to use the available tools properly. * No OFP was not better. Apart from some problems the A2 system is improved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nkenny 1051 Posted July 12, 2009 I agree with the OP. And frankly many UI and control aspects worked better in OPF. - K Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr reality 0 Posted July 13, 2009 I'd have to agree with the OP as well. Couple things i've notice in A2, You cant command the gunner to target and fire when your turned out in the T72 and T90. Don't know if this is a factor regarding the real tanks. When you aquire a target for the gunner in the M1A1, it spins your command sight around, very disorientating, this doesn't happen in the tusk variant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
