Multiplayer lag/stutter on moving objects

[twirly 11]

This blows me away too! I have set up a dedicated server (seperate machine) on a 2.8Ghtz dual core on LAN and get warping with 1 AI at 100m also. I have spent weeks trying to get multiplayer playable...and to no avail. I guess I just don't understand.

Another little test I've done is to put the player and one group running towards him. Monitor your bandwith usage as the group comes nearer....you will see the bandwith use go up hugely. This I also don't understand.

From what I can make out I think people simply deny or ignore the warping. Not me...can't enjoy a game like that!

[Maystor 10]

Damn, I was afraid someone was going to say that :( I guess people have simply gotten used to it and don't notice it anymore. I know Operation Flashpoint was criticized for its netcode but in comparison with ARMA 2, it is SUPER smooth.

I realize the game has gotten bigger, but in Operation Flashpoint I can literally place 100 soldiers, give them a waypoint and they will still move perfectly smoothly for the client in LAN whereas ONE single soldier that isn't part of your group will lag like crazy and warp in ARMA 2. That's just bad. Have to say it's quite disappointing and I don't really get what's the point of these huge maps and all the improvements in animations etc if the gameplay suffers like that. It is fine for single player but let's be honest, single player isn't one of ARMA 2's biggest strengths.

Coop in ARMA 2 is a no go then. Having a laggy multiplayer experience with major stuttering issues and warping in LAN just doesn't feel right.

[twirly 11]

That's just bad. Have to say it's quite disappointing and I don't really get what's the point of these huge maps and all the improvements in animations etc if the gameplay suffers like that. It is fine for single player but let's be honest, single player isn't one of ARMA 2's biggest strengths.

Coop in ARMA 2 is a no go then. Having a laggy multiplayer experience with major stuttering issues and warping in LAN just doesn't feel right.

I hear you man.....and agree one hundred percent. I see people creating 100 player and more games. WTF would you do this? What is the point!

I have been dying to play online with just two mates for donkeys years....but I can't expect them to spend money on this!

I'm just stuck with this scripting addiction that has come about over the years while waiting for the network side of things to get better.....but it never has. It's like one step forward....two steps back with this game!

Bittersweet!

[Defunkt 431]

While I'm certainly aware of the phenomena I can't help but feel you're overstating the degree. If you're in NZ try starting a mission on ANZINS.net Player vs Player give it a minute to settle and tell me if you get more or less warping than you're getting on your LAN.

[twirly 11]

If you're in NZ try starting a mission on ANZINS.net Player vs Player

Tells me wrong version!! I have 1.56. It needs 1.56. LOL!

Par for the course I guess!

[Defunkt 431]

Running the beta?

[twirly 11]

Running the beta?

I just sent you a PM mate! ... let's sort it out there.

[Maystor 10]

So I've been playing Operation Flashpoint and ARMA 2 online a lot lately and still can't figure out why is OFP so much smoother in multiplayer. As it turns out running a dedicated server and a client on the same machine isn't that flawed actually as I'm getting the same results connecting to other servers too. I made a short video for comparison:

63L2-NNLknU

Something went wrong during the merging and uploading procedure so for whatever reason the OFP clip looks choppy on the whole. In reality it is very smooth and recorded at higher FPS than the ARMA one and it can still be seen there are no major stutter/warping issues at all. For OFP, i left all the server settings at defaults. For ARMA 2, server settings were optimized for LAN with MinErrorToSend set to 0.001. Why is it that 70+ soldiers in OFP still move much smoother than 13 soldiers in ARMA 2 when both servers are running at similar FPS (50 for OFP and 45 for ARMA 2)? Bandwidth is not an issue, CPU power shouldn't be either, so what's causing the stutter then?

I read in another thread that AI which are in player group are calculated on player's client. That would explain why all soldiers in my group appear to be perfectly smooth. Too bad that's the only thing that is ever smooth in multiplayer in this game. Why do soldiers stutter/warp when moving in a straight line at constant speed anyway? I assume it's the prediction code or whatever it's called that is at fault but why was it so much better in OFP?

It's a real shame because the game is otherwise fantastic. This is probably one of the main reasons why it is not more popular. It's one of the laggiest games I have ever played :(

[Beagle 684]

Only thig that comes to my mind is that OFP did never allow as much units on a map as ArmA II does. In some issins like warfare you often have HUNDREDS of A.I. units active at once all over the whole map.

I noticed that some servers handle it better, other do worse but the problem grows with player count and the towns activated.

Some servers allow for up to 50 players on warfare without a ping limit and have heavy A.I. town defense enabled...that's simply a preprogrammed fail.

Solution...smaller scenarios and no player count exceeding 30!

The problem will still occur but to a lesser and manageble extend.

A game where you have a tank warping 20meters forward and backwards 1 minute untill it gets beamed into your back and shoots you with a bullet it fired 2 minutes before is not playable...but that what I see quite often on full warfare servers.

ArmA OA is obviously no MMOG

Edited December 29, 2010 by Beagle

[visceralsyn 10]

What that video reminds me of in Operation Flashpoint, is that the world is stale, and dead. ArmA²'s world is much more alive.

Anyway, in your arma2oa.cfg change these lines:

MaxBandwidth=100000000; // if you are using 100Mbps lan

MinBandwidth=92000000;

MaxMsgSend=32384;

MaxSizeGuaranteed=64;

MaxSizeNonguaranteed=16; // this setting I started with 64 and dropped it by 8 til the stuttering seemed less and less. 12 or lower was too low, and 48 or higher was just bad.

MinErrorToSend=0.001; // of course is as low as that setting gets.

And again running 2 instances of one game, is retarded. Your machine doesn't have enuff horsepower to do this. Operation Flashpoint is 9 years old, from its release. Todays machines should run that ancient crap, flat out.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

If you think of a MP synchronization in "state frames". Then the derivative of the state frames at that point in time is what forms your approximation of smoothness. All the above is just an abstract example.

A more tangible example is when the other players just drive and walk off in a seemingly random direction when you begin to lose connection. This tells me that the approximation to generate smoothness only activates under relatively drastic conditions (such as a dieing connection) rather than at a constant pace. Inefficient net-code and bugs can be the cause of this, as the coders would probably need to cut back on the approximation to save CPU power. But that is not an excuse. Problems need solving.

Games that come to mind with similar problems are avp2. AVP2 has awful net-code. Playing as an alien in that game builds intense predictive skills, not to mention playing in 3 dimensions (wall crawling : P)

[Maystor 10]

Only thig that comes to my mind is that OFP did never allow as much units on a map as ArmA II does...

Good point. But OFP did still allow a hell of a lot more units than any other similar game. Having the extra units and larger map size isn't worth it at all in my opinion if it comes at the cost of laggy gameplay.

What that video reminds me of in Operation Flashpoint, is that the world is stale, and dead. ArmA²'s world is much more alive.

Anyway, in your arma2oa.cfg change these lines:

And again running 2 instances of one game, is retarded. Your machine doesn't have enuff horsepower to do this. Operation Flashpoint is 9 years old, from its release. Todays machines should run that ancient crap, flat out.

Thanks. Those settings are actually quite similar to what I'm using. I will experiment some more but so far the only setting that made any real difference is the MinErrorToSend one and it's still jumpy and nowhere near close to smooth.

I'm not sure about running a dedicated server and a client on the same computer being retarded though. If my machine doesn't have enough power to calculate one single group on the entire island, why is the server FPS close to maximum and why am I seeing the same stutter when I join a server with a good ping and try to play a simple mission all by myself?

Operation Flashpoint is 9 years old, from its release. Todays machines should run that ancient crap, flat out.

Is it wrong that I'm offended by this? :D Prettier graphics shouldn't excuse poor multiplayer performance IMO.

If you think of a MP synchronization in "state frames". Then the derivative of the state frames at that point in time is what forms your approximation of smoothness. All the above is just an abstract example.

A more tangible example is when the other players just drive and walk off in a seemingly random direction when you begin to lose connection. This tells me that the approximation to generate smoothness only activates under relatively drastic conditions (such as a dieing connection) rather than at a constant pace. Inefficient net-code and bugs can be the cause of this, as the coders would probably need to cut back on the approximation to save CPU power. But that is not an excuse. Problems need solving.

Games that come to mind with similar problems are avp2. AVP2 has awful net-code. Playing as an alien in that game builds intense predictive skills, not to mention playing in 3 dimensions (wall crawling : P)

So basically, because ARMA is a much more hardware demanding game in comparison to OFP, BIS cut back on the approximation to save the much needed CPU power? That makes sense but is also quite disappointing. Personally, gameplay should come first and then everything else. Seeing all the units stutter and warp in multiplayer kind of ruins everything else that ARMA is better at.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

So basically, because ARMA is a much more hardware demanding game in comparison to OFP, BIS cut back on the approximation to save the much needed CPU power? That makes sense but is also quite disappointing. Personally, gameplay should come first and then everything else. Seeing all the units stutter and warp in multiplayer kind of ruins everything else that ARMA is better at.

Thats my hypothesis at least, which makes sense out of what i've observed. I highly doubt their net-code has already reached maximum efficiency, though. It needs to work with the CPU better. A good example of them not working too well together is the very fact your frame rate is much lower with other human soldiers in the game (in a non scripted MP game). You should not have to be calculating them like they are AI, but it seems like you get a performance hit even worse than an AI based game.