Attack Helicopter Question

[StrifeRaZoR 10]

So me and my buddy have our own little dedicated server that we play on. Domination, constantly up, we're just basically having fun in a giant sandbox. I'm fairly new to the game, loving it so far. Just a question though..

The Attack Helicopter...AH-Z or something like that, can't remember the name specifically, at work right now, seems to be vastly inferior to everything around it. I mean, sure, it packs a nice punch and can literally decimate ground targets, but I was under the impression that helicopters like these were designed to fly low and destroy Anti-Air emplacements to clear the area for faster moving aircraft like F16's and Harriers. That's their job, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong on that assumption, as I'm not a huge military buff, but I believe that the radar module on the AH is located on the NOSE of the craft...thereby making it have to climb higher over it's hill/tree cover to accquire a target, whereas a more traditional gunship (Apachi, Commanche, etc..) has the radar module on TOP of the craft near the rotors. Is that what makes them so superior? They can pop up, accquire the lock before coming into full visual range, and fire off a swarm of hellfires before the target even knows they've been hit.

So in short...does this explain why no matter how low i'm flying in this thing, there are always going to be something, somewhere, whether I can see it or not, that's going to shoot me down. I mean, it's gotten to the point that if I don't steal a T72 or T90 and clear out a town the dirty way...that there's absolutely no use for aircraft.

But then again, I may just be horribly failtastic at flying. My first flight in the harrier lasted about 8 seconds. Well, 8 seconds in the air. I forgot my mouse was inverted for flight...so I cleared out a nice row of trees after take off :)

[frederf 0]

AH-1 clearing SAM/AAA for F-16s...er, more like the other way around. The AH-1 is based on the UH-1 Huel, very light and fragile compared to something like an AH-64 Apache.

There is no radar on the AH-1. They have an IR camera on a ball turret that the gunner can look through and that's it.

Hellfires are also laser guided weapons so no "swarm" possible. You shoot one, guide it to target with the laser on the aircraft, it goes boom, you shoot another. You're lucky to get one off every 10 seconds. If you lose line of sight with the target then the missile loses guidance (in real life, game is fire and forget).

Helicopters are the ultimate glass hammer when it comes to the battlefield. Real military exercises of Tanks vs Helos can favor either side depending on tactics and luck.

[S7_Mega 10]

The ACE mod did agreat job with the Cobra and Apache. It mimicks the real combat model more than the vanilla version.

Frederf summed it up nicely.

What makes me laugh on public servers are the bozo's flying within 100m of a populated town and wonderin how they got shot down.

[MPBR 10]

So me and my buddy have our own little dedicated server that we play on. Domination, constantly up, we're just basically having fun in a giant sandbox. I'm fairly new to the game, loving it so far. Just a question though..

The Attack Helicopter...AH-Z or something like that, can't remember the name specifically, at work right now, seems to be vastly inferior to everything around it. I mean, sure, it packs a nice punch and can literally decimate ground targets, but I was under the impression that helicopters like these were designed to fly low and destroy Anti-Air emplacements to clear the area for faster moving aircraft like F16's and Harriers. That's their job, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong on that assumption, as I'm not a huge military buff, but I believe that the radar module on the AH is located on the NOSE of the craft...thereby making it have to climb higher over it's hill/tree cover to accquire a target, whereas a more traditional gunship (Apachi, Commanche, etc..) has the radar module on TOP of the craft near the rotors. Is that what makes them so superior? They can pop up, accquire the lock before coming into full visual range, and fire off a swarm of hellfires before the target even knows they've been hit.

So in short...does this explain why no matter how low i'm flying in this thing, there are always going to be something, somewhere, whether I can see it or not, that's going to shoot me down. I mean, it's gotten to the point that if I don't steal a T72 or T90 and clear out a town the dirty way...that there's absolutely no use for aircraft.

But then again, I may just be horribly failtastic at flying. My first flight in the harrier lasted about 8 seconds. Well, 8 seconds in the air. I forgot my mouse was inverted for flight...so I cleared out a nice row of trees after take off :)

Not tring to be too harsh here, but where did you get the idea that its job was to clear out AA for planes ?

[max power 21]

Attack helicopters are for tank hunting at standoff ranges and close air support. For taking out SAM sites, I think the americans use fast moving jets with anti-radiation missiles.

[noubernou 77]

Think of helicopters as really, really, mobile artillery.

They pack a heavy punch but cant really do much to defend themselves from direct fire.

Unless you have a really good gunner who can mow down small arms and RPG fire you are going to get hit hard if you come in to close to the combat.

Best bet is to keep some distance and take shots when you can make them. Hide behind tree and ridge lines and rely on either radio or another scouting helicopter to call out shots to you.

Pop up, fire and guide (though like the above mentioned its fire and forget in vanilla ArmA) and duck and get your ass out of there! :eek:

The Mi-24 can take a bit more of a beating, I think they were used in Afghanistan in more of a strafing roll... They have very thick armour and can take small arms fire much better than most western counter-parts.

[Bravo0246 0]

As for flying jets over hostile occupied towns, don't fly too low, everyone thinks it perfectly safe to fly 50m off the ground.

For bombing i fly at 1500+ you will very rarely get taken out of the sky unless in PVP.

[StrifeRaZoR 10]

Oh, I understand completely. I've only played on public servers a few times, not quite adept enough to wave my gun around with a full belief that I deserve to wave it around :p.

Now, as for flying 100m around a populated town, I definitely do not do that. Here's my usual steps for flying anything that shoots stuff:

1. Take off and do a small circle around the runway and use radar to pick out any patrols or convoys in my area.

2. Plan a path that will take me AWAY from the target area in a wide swooping arc back towards the target.

3. Aim myself to where there's a nice hill or tree line between me and my target(s) and I tend to get no closer than 300m on my initial run. You can never tell what's on the edge of a town.

And usually by the time I pop up to take a shot, I'm instantly shot down before I even see what shot me. So I dunno...

[noubernou 77]

I would kill for a CCIP on the jets... :P Make bombing runs so much easier.

I have never really flown while someone uses a laser pointer, if you have LGB, can you fly really high and level and just drop one and it will find its target (as long as you are in range)?

[maturin 12]

Speaking of bombing... how do I lock on to a target with a LGB?

[max power 21]

switch to LGB, hit tab, fly toward target.

[Jon K 10]

With a guy lazing a target

[MPBR 10]

Oh, I understand completely. I've only played on public servers a few times, not quite adept enough to wave my gun around with a full belief that I deserve to wave it around :p.

Now, as for flying 100m around a populated town, I definitely do not do that. Here's my usual steps for flying anything that shoots stuff:

1. Take off and do a small circle around the runway and use radar to pick out any patrols or convoys in my area.

2. Plan a path that will take me AWAY from the target area in a wide swooping arc back towards the target.

3. Aim myself to where there's a nice hill or tree line between me and my target(s) and I tend to get no closer than 300m on my initial run. You can never tell what's on the edge of a town.

And usually by the time I pop up to take a shot, I'm instantly shot down before I even see what shot me. So I dunno...

If its a town / base type target .. then Never Ever try to attack unless you have confirmation that all AA assetts have been taken out (normally a seperate FT or 2 job to remove all AA allowing air assets to be called in for support / moping up)

Patrols can also be equiped with mobile AA, again a AH-1 is NOT a mobile pwnmobile, it usually works WITH other units as support as per NouberNou post.

A2 is about working with other FT's etc to meet objectives.

Fixed AA at a target is normall taken out with inf, HARMS, cruise missiles etc.

Usually weapons with a big standoff range.

[Amuro 10]

AH-1 clearing SAM/AAA for F-16s...er, more like the other way around. The AH-1 is based on the UH-1 Huel, very light and fragile compared to something like an AH-64 Apache.

There is no radar on the AH-1. They have an IR camera on a ball turret that the gunner can look through and that's it.

Hellfires are also laser guided weapons so no "swarm" possible. You shoot one, guide it to target with the laser on the aircraft, it goes boom, you shoot another. You're lucky to get one off every 10 seconds. If you lose line of sight with the target then the missile loses guidance (in real life, game is fire and forget).

Helicopters are the ultimate glass hammer when it comes to the battlefield. Real military exercises of Tanks vs Helos can favor either side depending on tactics and luck.

Later Hellfires are radar guided, like the AGM-114L, which are fire-and-forget, and do not require further guidance after launch and can hit the target without keeping the launcher in line of sight of it. Not sure what type of Hellfire is used in game.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Amuro

[mercenarynox 10]

Most attack helicopters engage enemies from pretty long distances. Most enemies cant even hear an attack helicopter until they've been torn to bits with the 30mm or rockets.

[Jon K 10]

All this talk about helos makes me want to dive into some Black Shark!

[frederf 0]

Later Hellfires are radar guided, like the AGM-114L, which are fire-and-forget, and do not require further guidance after launch and can hit the target without keeping the launcher in line of sight of it. Not sure what type of Hellfire is used in game.

Hellfire II Ls are only usable by AH-64D Longbow helicopters.

[Amuro 10]

Hellfire II Ls are only usable by AH-64D Longbow helicopters.

Yes, but Hellfires are radar guided too, only the early variants are laser guided.

[happy 10]

Keep distance and try to get some friendlies on the ground with a laser to light up some unexpecting armour.

If you try to knock out AA, stay low, use hills and get in the first shot before he spots you, again don't get to close.

AA infantry can ruin your day pretty fast as they are very hard to spot and a SA7 up the tail can ruin your day pretty darn quickly.

Yet despite it all you will never know what's heading your way as there are no alarm warnings inside cockpit and no chaff, flare dispensers to avoid or confuse anything that is flying towards you with an aim to ruin your day.

[max power 21]

Yes, but Hellfires are radar guided too, only the early variants are laser guided.

No, only the radar guided ones are radar guided. The rest of them are laser guided ;) That is to say, only the L model is radar guided, the rest are semi-automatic laser homing.

[spandrel 10]

One point-- you'll have a very hard time controlling the helos in this game with mouse and keyboard. It took me an hour or so to get my dual analog logitech gamepad working but flying with it quickly became second nature-- I can't see that happening with the mouse and keyboard, unless you like rowing.

[maturin 12]

With a guy lazing a target

Yeah... so they're basically useless in singleplayer?

[jake01 10]

Later Hellfires are radar guided, like the AGM-114L, which are fire-and-forget, and do not require further guidance after launch and can hit the target without keeping the launcher in line of sight of it. Not sure what type of Hellfire is used in game.

Yeah, I was just watching the military channel bit on the apache longbow and they clearly said it was fire and forget, and it could fire all missiles at once or a single.

[StrifeRaZoR 10]

So I finally found out what the hell I was doing wrong. Apparently TAB is the target key with the hellfires and stuff. I did NOT know that. I was spamming right-click and SOMETIMES I'd get a lock. I figured out how to arc the Hellfires over the trees and hills and hit things that shouldn't even know I'm there.

I'm totally loving this AH now. My jaw hit the floor when I realized that TAB was the freakin' targetting key. Laugh at me if you want, but I was nearly dumb firing all my ordanance (no pun intended).

=P

[frederf 0]

Right, the Apache AH-64D Longbow and Hellfire II L missile pair is fire and forget. That exact combination is required for fire and forget missile logic. As the Longbow is not in ArmA2, that missile logic can be safely disregarded.

Both right click and tab are targeting keys. Tab is "Next Target" and Right click is "Lock or Zoom." Next target steps through the available targets while Lock or Zoom attempts to lock the target currently under the cursor.

You're going to get a get a biiiig boo, hiss from me for Tab-shoot-Tab-shoot missile spamming.