We're making coop missions...

[Maddock 0]

I hope these questions haven't already been done to death.  

Our OFP team is embarking on, what we are hoping, will be some excellent multi-player co-op missions. What I am asking of the community is for the parameters of these missions (not neccessarily themes - but feel free!   ). Specifically:

1. How many players is a good number? 4, 8, more?

2. What is a good length (in time) for such a mission?

3. How many enemy units would you expect to encounter in a good mission? 4 squads, more the better, overrun my sorry arse?

4. Do many of your current Coop missions get much replay, once first completed?

5. Would you like to see random/conditional branching in the objectives of MP Coop missions, improving their replay value?

6. Is there a preference in how much vehicles should be involved, either land or air? slogging it on foot for me, give me that comfy chopper pilot's chair?

7. So that we don't make the same mistakes as others, what bugs you about other MP Coop missions you have played?

8. Are there issues we should consider or try and cater-for given LAN and Internet play can differ so much?

Hope you can spend a moment to give us some feedback. Please feel free to offer any other suggestions for our project. We're doing it for the whole community after all.

Thanks,

Maddock  

[snake eyes 0]

Hi maddock,

If i were you i would make a Coop Campaign,and other coop missions aswell

[MenDAKE 0]

Respawning as an AI member is always nice. I don't like infinite respawn because it lessens the tension, but a few AI people to respawn as helps make the experience less frustrating.

Also, there are very few coop missions that allow some players to provide air cover. It's very exciting to be fighting infantry on the ground with your friend in the air taking out the T80's for you, while communicating strategies. This is a feeling no other game provides.

[Maddock 0]

These ideas sound good. Both the themed campaign and air cover are great ideas.

I'm concerned though that I may have posted this in the wrong forum.    From the lack of response so far you'd think that there's not much demand for MP Coop missions.

C'mon people, let me know!!!  

[Frag Haus Capt Morgan 0]

Maddock we make missions at frag haus for coop and we follow some general rules.

One airunits usual can take on the enemy them selves. So when and if possible leave them out.

Also we make ours for about 20 to 30 people so no respawn in them. Unless it is a really big mission that will take a long time. Like maxing out the amount of enemy that can be aloud on a map.

Two we tend to Also make a mission to what we call freakbirdy proof. If he can find away he will exploit the hell out of weaknesses in the map. So we let him play it once have him tell us what he did and make it so he can not do it or anyone. Try and control where people can go in a map. This way they do not go off wondering around like hansel and gretal looking for ways to exploit you map.

[Maddock 0]

Thanks Capt. Morgan. I have seen from your many posts here on the forums that exploitation of missions is a concern, especially in these multiplayer scenarios. (I dont want this thread to turn into a cheat-gripe however )

Restricting where people can go is important and a good suggestion. This is particularly relevent when you want to ensure sequential objectives are approached correctly, and in order. I might have to employ the services of 'freakbirdy' to break our missions.  

Keep the ideas coming people!  

[CCCP 0]

Maddock

it would be nice to see coop missions:

- both types East/West

- localized for particular type of task/operation - e.g. land and establish bridgehead.

[Die Alive 0]

I like to see large missions whith two side (US & resistance, Soviet & resistance) fighting together on the same side. Like have the two teams start apart from each other and they have their own goals, then later meet up and take on a large battle at the end.

-=Die Alive=-

[IGFs TopGun 1]

Maddock, our squad plays COOP everynight. Here are some of the basics we would like to see.

1. no more than 10 slots. (to many people and we tend to disable the AI that are open)

2. diffenently need air support. Not planes as the FM's suck but a few helo's for inbound or outbound.

3. Mission shouldn't last more than 1/2 hr, otherwise you will need respawn as no one will wait around that long.

4. vehicles- are a must if no helo's or tanks to take out other tanks. 2-3 max

5. units- make it realistic. Blake's first campaign mission is impossible to pass unless you have 10 guys playing. Too much all at once....

6. of course there has to be a breifing and you can't have to much going on as the lag becomes an issue

hope this gives you some ideas and we look forward to your missions

[Placebo 29]

1. How many players is a good number? 4, 8, more?

Depends on the host, personally I'd say a minimum of 4, best to do at least 8, then the host can disable any AI left over

2. What is a good length (in time) for such a mission?

Well length of time depends on the skill of the players, personally I'd say a minimum of 20 minutes for average players.

3. How many enemy units would you expect to encounter in a good mission? 4 squads, more the better, overrun my sorry arse?

Well I tend to play with 3-4 other people when I host so going by that I'd say at least 50 enemy soldiers, even then it's only an average of around 10 per person so I'd consider 50 to be the very minimum.

4. Do many of your current Coop missions get much replay, once first completed?

The good ones do

5. Would you like to see random/conditional branching in the objectives of MP Coop missions, improving their replay value?

Most definitely, Die Alive summed it up pretty well, missions like that are excellent.

6. Is there a preference in how much vehicles should be involved, either land or air? slogging it on foot for me, give me that comfy chopper pilot's chair?

Personally I prefer grunt v grunt missions, the odd bit of armour here and there is great as long as it's not overdone, I like a jeep or Hummer/BRDM available to jump into but I'm happy to walk as long as it doesn't take like 20mins just to walk to the first objective Really it depends on each person what they would like in a mission, personally I'd never play an Armour v Armour only mission whereas I'm sure there are people who would prefer that type.

7. So that we don't make the same mistakes as others, what bugs you about other MP Coop missions you have played?

Hmmm not really sure what bugs me most, I guess the only two things I can think of are missions that require addons without the readme telling me, nothing worse than picking a mission and having the game crash because some addon I've never even heard of is needed. Also long intro movies get soooooooooo annoying after seeing them for the 50th time, if you feel an intro is appropriate try to keep it brief, outros on the other hand are great, nothing better than basking in the glory of a completed mission, "The Beach" is a prime example of a great outro.

8. Are there issues we should consider or try and cater-for given LAN and Internet play can differ so much?

Well not sure this applies to the question but two things IMO are a must, more missions for the addon islands PLEAASSSEEEE!!!! or at the very least if possible make duplicates of your missions, for example regular Kolgujev and Winter Kolgujev for those who have it, AFAIK there are only about 5 main addon islands so hopefully it won't increase the workload too much.

Last thing.......I guess I'm going to get pilloried for this but please please either include spawn or create a seperate spawn version for "wusses" like me, I love Opf and I love the fact Opf is best played in a more serious realistic way than other FPS games but MP still needs the fun factor, personally it's quite frustrating arranging people to play a game for 20 minutes, eventually getting people to decide on a mission to play, starting, then having to go back to grab a latecomer, then finally you're all ready, start the game and you die within 5 mins and spend the next 20 minutes making "seagull shit" jokes

Personally *ducking* I would prefer unlimited spawns but if you're completely against those then perhaps AI team member spawning at the very least

I think that's about it, basically multiple objectives, addon island missions and spawning for us wusses

[kegetys 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IGFs TopGun @ Mar. 12 2002,18:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">5. units- make it realistic. Blake's first campaign mission is impossible to pass unless you have 10 guys playing. Too much all at once....<span id='postcolor'>

*cough* http://phobos.linux-site.net:10080/ofp_shot/game/boc1_finaus.jpg

I like really tough missions... like ones that are long, and you cannot pass it without som real work. Also what I like in a coop missions is that it has a somekind of plot... Not just a briefing that says "ok bad guys there, kill them" but something that tells me why I need to do that.

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kegetys @ Mar. 12 2002,17:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*cough* http://phobos.linux-site.net:10080/ofp_shot/game/boc1_finaus.jpg <span id='postcolor'>

You died, that doesn't count

[kegetys 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Mar. 12 2002,19:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kegetys @ Mar. 12 2002,17:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*cough* http://phobos.linux-site.net:10080/ofp_shot/game/boc1_finaus.jpg <span id='postcolor'>

You died, that doesn't count <span id='postcolor'>

The last enemy shot me right into the head I was sidestepping past the hangar door to get the A10 pilot guy inside... And he shot me right away when he came a bit into the sight :| But the jaque guy came and killed him and blew up the helis.

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kegetys @ Mar. 12 2002,17:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And he shot me right away when he came a bit into the sight :| But the jaque guy came and killed him and blew up the helis.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL don't ya just hate it when you do all the hard work yourself, die at the last moment then someone comes out of hiding, kills the last couple of guys and takes all the glory for themselves

[PitViper 0]

try that mission with 4 people. lol!

[badkarma 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Maddock @ Mar. 07 2002,07:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thanks Capt. Morgan. I have seen from your many posts here on the forums that exploitation of missions is a concern, especially in these multiplayer scenarios. (I dont want this thread to turn into a cheat-gripe however )

Restricting where people can go is important and a good suggestion. This is particularly relevent when you want to ensure sequential objectives are approached correctly, and in order. I might have to employ the services of 'freakbirdy' to break our missions.

Keep the ideas coming people! <span id='postcolor'>

Maddock, working on one of your coop missions... pretty fun! I only play coop and one recent issue I can't stand is long intros that cannot be skipped. I also agree with Placebo about making seperate versions for spawn and no spawn... and at no time should there be infinite respawn, it kills the urgency of the mission. I personally like no respawn. A mission with friends being air support, tank support would be awesome. Also, I'd like to see more missions involving vehicles in battle, and please don't make the players walk for 15min or drive for 15min with no action... makes the mission really painful. Making a coop campaign is something I think alot of ppl would love to seelike the Band of Comrades mini-campaign, I haven't been through it yet though. The damn intro can't be skipped, it's so annoying and long! I'd also like to see missions that require you to think about your approach and how to achieve your objectives, not just kill all commies-type missions. I'll be happy to beta test missions for you as well. I'll post anything else I can think of.

[Major Fubar 0]

We want big f******g guns!  

But seriously, without creating ridiculous squads, give most players a chance at the role they like: sniper, LAW, vehicle crew...etc.

Love to see a mission for a small number of players (maybe 4) similar to Aircav Rescue...where you start in an offshore base with a few attack/transport choppers, and you have to take out enemy held towns, 1 by 1, maybe returning to base to refuel/rearm periodically. You could either use an attack chopper to strike from the air, or a transport copper to drop in some black-ops/grunts to take down the enemy. maybe even have a freindly armored squad you could radio in after youve softened the opposition from the air.

[kegetys 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Mar. 12 2002,20:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kegetys @ Mar. 12 2002,17:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And he shot me right away when he came a bit into the sight :| But the jaque guy came and killed him and blew up the helis.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL don't ya just hate it when you do all the hard work yourself, die at the last moment then someone comes out of hiding, kills the last couple of guys and takes all the glory for themselves <span id='postcolor'>

Not really The purpose is to beat the mission with minimal losses, not to gain high personal stats THIS AINT CS!!

[Maddock 0]

Thanks for the replies people. Sounds like I better get cracking on these new missions.

Placebo, thanks for the detailed reply, I appreciate the time you've taken here (now I'm forced to make respawn versions....just for you   )

If anyone thinks of anything else for MP coop....post it!  

[Placebo 29]

Yay we get "wuss mode"

Well replying was easy because I've played lots of co-op in the last few days

[badkarma 0]

Where does everyone get their coop missions from? I used to goto axleonline cuz you could sort be newest and they dated all the entries. Now best site I can goto seems to be levels4you. Wish they dated the entries.

[Maddock 0]

We're looking to set up a Mission Vault for OFP with good categorisations and dating of missions. Stay tuned...

[Guest]

I've got a few thoughts on these matters.

Mainly, I'd like to see a map collection which only accepted maps of a certain (high) level of quality. I want briefings that say more than "COMMIE BASTARDS HERE KILL THEM LOLOLOL".

levels4you is probably the closest I have seen to this.

Anyways:

1) I like the pulp fiction effect... different players get to see the battle from very different perspectives. Desperate Measures and Joint Ops both do this superbly.

2) If a team isn't being controlled by a human player, the AI should at least make a reasonable attempt at completing the objectives

3) Cut scenes of any length at the beginning of a mission are poor show. We usually get bored of missions that do this... takes to long to get back into the action.

4) Putting custom music in is a poor idea. I don't download missions larger than 50k or so. If you want to put music in, best to provide a lite version of the mission.

5) Missions that are fast paced tend to do well. Desert Ambush keeps you on your toes the whole way through. So does Lost Squad. Allowing the player to hang around is usually going to lose you their interest.

6) Side/Group respawn... very good idea. No real reason not to in my book

7) I love taking part in battles that are being fought across a valley. The south of everon is good for this.

8) Seeing black ops/spec naz being dropped from helicopters puts the shits up me. Do this. It's good. Even if they land in the sea :-)

9) Ambushes, assasinations and sniping are good fun.

So there you go, the missions that we play a lot have most of these features.