Is anyone going to boycott bis add-ons?

[Unl33t 0]

Dear Thread starter.

I won't Boycott, But i recomend you do, and doing this, please leave, People with this kind of greedy style of trying to get what they can't and hopefully won't have, should just (excuse this) Fuck OFF.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (R. Gerschwarzenge @ Mar. 03 2002,10:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Placebo could've not said it any better.

Fuck no.

That's my opinion too. Compare the amount of support from BIS to some other game and development team. BIS has done an outstanding work and they actually listen to us. How many times have we pointed out some bugs and wishes for improvements and how many times they have listened to us? Joystick throttle issues, dedicated servers, walking, kneeling, free add-on vehicles and weapons... The list goes on.<span id='postcolor'>

Are you fucking kidding me?

The bugs should have not have been there in the first place.

Ok, the add-on vehicles and weapons was nice of them - but the rest should have been there in the first place. They still havn't fixed som things (netcode for instance) that should have worked in release 1.0!

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 03 2002,12:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They still havn't fixed som things (netcode for instance) that should have worked in release 1.0!<span id='postcolor'>

It never has been broken.

It just needs some improvement and you are going to get it when Resistance comes out.

And the bug thing. I've seen alot of games that had bugs when they were released and they still have those bugs. At least BIS has done something about them. And most of the bugs haven't even bothered me.

[Intruder 0]

No I will not boycott BIS addons. BIS is a company, they make something, they sell it. Thats how business works. They invest the profits into expansions or whatever they wish to branch out into. I'm happy with their conduct

[Bloodmixer 0]

I voted no, BIS has done far more than any other company I know. How many companies do you know that actually *explain* why they do something. They don't have to. That already shows, and not only on this occassion, that they are serious towards the community. Indeed they spend years writing the engine and now it is a success, they want to take care of it, the best they can, whether we agree or not.

I was a fan of Severance before OFP, and well, look what happened to that community. It died out, even though it was a great game. It was so because there was zero support, even though they released the editor. Perhaps the sales went bad, but even then, there is only one site left dedicated to the severance editor, and , well it isn't really flourishing :/

Part of it could have been because there was no way to communicate with the developers.

[-=-DUNEE-=- 0]

3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 03 2002,113)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The bugs should have not have been there in the first place.<span id='postcolor'>

Mmm... I have a feeling that it's futile to try and convince people otherwise, but...

It is impossible to create a bug-free program. With a product as complex as OFP, some bugs are more bothersome than others.

I have bought a lot of games that were buggy to the point of being unplayable. I'm sure you all did. Tracking down bugs is a very difficult thing to do, which translates into money in the end, like everything else. They have the choice of either tracking down bugs at no additional cost to us OR devoting their time to creating new things that they can sell for money. The fact that we're now at 1.45 shows that BIS does care, more than most companies.

I am very happy with the way BIS handled the patching issue. Few gamemakers do it so well. It is human nature that we all find something to complain about, most of which are non-issues anyway. Fortunately, most people are not swayed by arguments backed up by an outburst of emotions.

I'll go back to lurking now, thank you for your attention.

[edit: fixed a typo. Aaah, the fallible human nature]

[Guest]

I would say that flashpoint has more bugs then your average game. And, yes, BIS has been very forthcoming with patches.

That doesn't oblige me to join th BIS fanclub and agree on every descision they make.

The people talking about boycotting future BIS products are not doing it because BIS doesn't provide patches, but because BIS won't release the tools necessary for modding.

Two entirely different issues.

[madmike 0]

for christ sake, can you read?

In their statement they said they are going to release oxygen to organised mod teams and then eventualy to everyone although I hope they dont.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think alot are going to due to the Oxygen thing going on. <span id='postcolor'>

Do you really expect BIS just to hand out the tools when you and all the other whining children click your fingers and pout like little girls?

The majority of people who baught flashpoint and are still buying it dont even know what Oxygen is, let alone the fact's about it's release.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Armourdave @ Mar. 03 2002,14:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you really expect BIS just to hand out the tools when you and all the other whining children click your fingers and pout like little girls?<span id='postcolor'>

[gruntfuttock 1]

Look at the Poll results , I think that speaks for us all , BIS spent a lot of time and money working on the tools to create OPF , if at this point they have decided not to GIVE AWAY the result of all that hard work , then who are we to criticise ? , thesy have given us one of the most awesome immersive gaming experiences I have ever seen , not to mention all the free add on vehicles , weapons etc , the game still rocks , and I for one will carry on supporting BIS by buying any add ons they want to sell me.

[Nagual 0]

C'mon folks,

The great debate about the BIS tools has generated alot of good points for both points of view, but some hard facts stick more than others.

The day before the news about oxygen came out, folks were happy to complain about tank speeds and other things, but everyone loved BIS and opflash. The next day, people are talking about boycotting BIS?, not wanting to enjoy Resistance or Indepence lost? Why, because a decent company made a valid decision concerning years of hard work on their part.

People who want to fuck off flashpoint and boycott BIS are at the height of self-importance and the depths of self-pity. It takes an insane amount of energy to maintain those states, and as hard as it may be, that very same energy could be used to work on any of the positive ideas, such as a mod alliance or forming a small team of mates and applying for oxygen (easier to say than do of course). Demanding that BIS gives you something when they don't have to give it, or are not ready to give it, and then boycotting them and opflash as a result is a pretty fucked way to spend your day.

Nagual B

[Placebo 28]

This comment about Opf and bugs amuses me somewhat, every game released these days has some bugs or another hidden away, why? because multiply every soundcard by every graphics card by every processor by every OS by every motherboard by every driver set by every user configuration and you get one mother hucking hit load of a combination of configurations, there is no possible way for any company to have the means to test products on all those, some bugs will sneak through no matter if a game is held back 12 months for testing (which by the way would never happen with the way publishers operate). Look at it this way, Opf is a completely new in house designed engine, if companies can't even release games based on the old Quake3 and HL engines without there being bugs how can anyone possibly expect a brand new engine that Opf has to be 100% bug free?

And I will still return to my age old comment of having a magical version of Opf, as released at 1.0 I suffered from hardly any bugs that I remember, the odd clipping problem but that's about the only thing I can remember, and most games these days seem to have clipping problems, perhaps that's an issue that gfx card manufacturers really need to work on.

As for the netcode, well I used to play 1.0 online, friendly Dane with cable as host, myself and a couple of other dialuppers playing co-op, best damned online gaming experience I've had in my life.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Nagual @ Mar. 03 2002,14:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The day before the news about oxygen came out, folks were happy to complain about tank speeds and other things, but everyone loved BIS and opflash. The next day, people are talking about boycotting BIS?, not wanting to enjoy Resistance or Indepence lost?  <span id='postcolor'>

Exactly. That means it is a real issue in the ofp community and not to be taken lightly (such as complaints about tank speed and other trivia).

Ask yourself this: What would you think of BIS, if they in patch 1.5 removed the mission editor and then gave it out to selected 'pro' mappers? I guess that you would not be happy since you most probably want to use the mission editor. The same thing goes for the folks who wanted to create models. BIS promised a release to the public, then withdrew it.

Note that BIS has every legal and moral right to remove the mission editor. They worked har on it for years. It would be benificial to the community if only good mappers would be allowed to do the mapping.

Would you be happy about it? I think not.

[theavonlady 2]

While I have no interest in boycotting BIS, I fully agree with Denoir's well put point.

[Guest]

Oxygen + visitor combined are the basis for making a whole new game based on OFP's engine. The mission editor is a much more simplistic tool (though still powerfull) plus there was not one, but two community made mission editors BEFORE OFP's release.

[ralphwiggum 6]

2--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 03 2002,192)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ask yourself this: What would you think of BIS, if they in patch 1.5 removed the mission editor and then gave it out to selected 'pro' mappers? I guess that you would not be happy since you most probably want to use the mission editor. The same thing goes for the folks who wanted to create models. BIS promised a release to the public, then withdrew it.

Note that BIS has every legal and moral right to remove the mission editor. They worked har on it for years. It would be benificial to the community if only good mappers would be allowed to do the mapping.

Would you be happy about it? I think not.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, there's a little problem in comparison. Mission editor, AFAIK, does not change config.bin, but unooficial add-ons, some of them, tend to change it.

BIS would not be reluctant to release a tool that won't compromise integrity of the game(mission editor), but OXYGEN might have a chance of doing that.

[madmike 0]

Im confused, are you lot saying ofp didnt used to have a mission editor? I had one from the begining

[Snake1999 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmike @ Mar. 03 2002,19:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Im confused, are you lot saying ofp didnt used to have a mission editor? I had one from the begining<span id='postcolor'>

No, in the old dayes when the demo came out, people became really interested in mission editing. In the begining, we had to write mission.sqm file in notepad, but then some people "developed" a mission editor for the demo.

Kinda funky!

[madmike 0]

Oh right, I didnt have the internet back in those days.

Cant believe it that people were already making missions before the game was released, shows how much we all love it

[IceFire 0]

I think it's a GOOD decision they made, and I am Glad they made it.

Why would you want these tools in ever Tom Dick and Harry's hands.

They would spoil the game.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Mar. 03 2002,20:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think it's a GOOD decision they made, and I am Glad they made it.

Why would you want these tools in ever Tom Dick and Harry's hands.

They would spoil the game.<span id='postcolor'>

Why not have only talented ppl use the mission editor and not let usless ppl make crap missions and spoli the game.

[madmike 0]

I can answer that for you monkey, the mission editor is not comparable to oxygen, the only thing they have in common is that they are both for this game.

The mission editor was included in the GAME, BIS didnt release oxygen in the game and why should they? It is kind of them to be releasing it.

ALso nothing is stopping individuals from e-mailing BIS to get approval for their models to be imported.

[Icabola 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Monkey Lib Front @ Mar. 03 2002,20:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why not have only talented ppl use the mission editor and not let usless ppl make crap missions and spoli the game.<span id='postcolor'>

Expertise need time and learning process (experience)

Anyway lots of good games always equipped with mission editor.

Regards,

Icabola

[Nagual 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 03 2002,19:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ask yourself this: What would you think of BIS, if they in patch 1.5 removed the mission editor and then gave it out to selected 'pro' mappers? I guess that you would not be happy since you most probably want to use the mission editor. The same thing goes for the folks who wanted to create models. BIS promised a release to the public, then withdrew it.

Note that BIS has every legal and moral right to remove the mission editor. They worked har on it for years. It would be benificial to the community if only good mappers would be allowed to do the mapping.

Would you be happy about it? I think not.<span id='postcolor'>

The editor has been released, do you seriously think that there is even a remote chance it will be taken away... no. Oxygen has not been released, that is an actual fact, something that does have to be dealt with. Now, you can reasonably debate this subject as much as possible, but it will not likely change the actual situation.

Sure, its a big deal, but does that mean we should spend our attention complaining, not for me thanks. I was very much loooking forward to Oxygen, hoping everyday since the end of feb dateline was set, checking websites everyday for news, like a lot of others probably. I cant wait to use Visitor as well, with a few projects in the pipeline. I was disapointed, sure, but who the fuck cares! . Self importance and self-pity are totally based on the preconcieved idea that we are more important or less important that anyone else, and that our actions are more/less important than others. If it matters enough to someone to boycott BIS, then fine for them, but its their self importance that is at work.

"A warrior-hunter is humble, he bows his head to no man, and lets no man bow his head to him" - The Nagual Don Juan Matus

A&B