Max realism in PvP

[JeRK 0]

ArmA has been polished. Thanks to 1.11b, I was able to increase my view distance by another 3000m up to 9000m, the movement feels a bit better, the ironsights are great now, et cetera. This means that unrealistic settings to "compensate" for some of the problems are no longer needed.

Most servers play ArmA on rather unrealistic settings. Crosshairs, third person, tracers on all guns etc.

I've noticed a change in my play style when I change the settings. If I don't have third-person, I lose my all-seeing eye over the battlefield. If I don't have a crosshair, I move slower and more cautiously, generally more realistically because the ironsights take their time to look into. I also don't hog scoped weapons anymore. If I can't see the tracers of every gun, I hit the deck more often to avoid getting shot out of nowhere.

I prefer playing like this, and I've wondered how people would play in PvP like this. ArmA is meant to be a realistic game, so it only makes sense to play it the way it's meant to be played, right? I could be wrong of course, but I think it would be funner this way.

And now for the map idea.

Let's face it; Berzerk is crap, we need something better that fills the same role.

It was made without much thinking about the gameplay so it's nothing but a snipe-fest with the occasional AA tank causing mayhem.

A PvP map based around BF2's Project Reality mod rather than vanilla BF2 would be far better and it would make players work as a team. I wrote this down with max-realism settings in mind when writing this. Feel free to share your ideas for a good PvP mission or say I'm a nutjob. If many people like this idea, I hope we can find a mission maker capable of the job. (I imagine it's quite fucking tricky or even impossible to make)

The general idea would be a linear capture and hold scenario. This keeps the field focused and keeps the players together. You need to capture the points in order and finally capture the enemy main base to win. The map size would be close to Berzerk.

On the team selection screen after you joined the server, you pick a squad and squad role. Each squad has 6 players:

2 infantry squads:

2 Grenardiers (M16A4+M203 or AK74+GP30)

1 scope rifleman (M16A4 ACOG or AK74 PSO)

1 Machine gunner (M240 or PK)

1 AT rifleman (M16A4 irons+2 AT4's or AK74+2 RPGs)

1 Medic (M4 irons or AK74u)

The squad members can only spawn on their "rally point" or on the main base. The squad leader can be voted off by the squadmates to avoid dumb squad leaders.

Squad members take 1 minute to respawn, so hang onto your virtual ass.

1 vehicle squad:

2 crewmen (Armed with MP5s, no matter what team)

They can choose between an M113 (RACS version for east) or an MBT every time their old vehicle gets destroyed. It spawns 3 minutes after the old one gets destroyed and an extra 1 minute per dead crewman. Once it spawns the crewmen are teleported right in. Survive long enough after the destruction and you'll get rewarded. The squad mates can vote to respawn their vehicle, in case something stupid happens. This again takes 3 minutes + extra time if a crewman dies during the respawn time.

1 air squad

2 pilots (MP5's again)

Both pilots can choose a chopper. The choice is AH-6 or Blackhawk/Mi-17 MG. Similar respawn system to the crewmen. If your chopper crashes, you'll have 3 minutes to survive till it respawns, if you die that's another extra minute of waiting, so stay alive.

(16 players per team, 32 in total)

Rally points:

The rally point system from PR is kickass, and would fit great into ArmA. The squad leader can place the rally, and it works as a spawn point for your squad. You can only have one rally at a time, and the squad leader needs 2 other members around him to place one. They can also be destroyed. You can't make them less than 400m outside of a control point.

Main bases: Unless your team has captured every other point, you MAY NOT enter the enemy main base. You'll get killed.

For quick transport into the field, there are 2 UNARMED cars per team that take 10 minutes to respawn.

I could make a map overview picture edited in paint, but not now. Any suggestions? Am I a moron? Quite likely.

[SG_Smokintodd 0]

Like this?

[JeRK 0]

Like this?

Already better than berzerk but as I said the scale's too huge.

Also, I don't like the respawn system as of now...

My idea is more based off PR, but not a direct copy of it.

[The Susser 0]

To get a realistic PVP would be nigh on impossible. Who would want to be part of a convoy that is attacked or patrol a base at night when spec ops attack. Just not workable, thats why the only realistic missions will be found with coop. Even then 99 percent of coop missions are not realistic, in any way shape or form.

I have played PR and its just BF2 with some definite improvements, but the essential BF2 gameplay is there except you have to cap flags in sequence. Limiting classes to certain roles, having to aquire kits certainly cuts down on the usual BF nonsense.

ArmA is so much more than that. PVP evo and MFCTI coming soon certainly take advantage of ArmA's scale. PR is recycling boring C&H/Conquest. I find PR more enjoyable then vanilla BF2 but it comes no where near as close to ArmA for innovation and orginality. With the editor anything is possible so what you suggest is very workable, I just think it wouldn't appeal to the ArmA masses. After you played the Epic CTI you can never go back.

[JeRK 0]

To get a realistic PVP would be nigh on impossible. Who would want to be part of a convoy that is attacked or patrol a base at night when spec ops attack. Just not workable, thats why the only realistic missions will be found with coop. Even then 99 percent of coop missions are not realistic, in any way shape or form.

I have played PR and its just BF2 with some definite improvements, but the essential BF2 gameplay is there except you have to cap flags in sequence. Limiting classes to certain roles, having to aquire kits certainly cuts down on the usual BF nonsense.

ArmA is so much more than that. PVP evo and MFCTI coming soon certainly take advantage of ArmA's scale. PR is recycling boring C&H/Conquest. I find PR more enjoyable then vanilla BF2 but it comes no where near as close to ArmA for innovation and orginality. With the editor anything is possible so what you suggest is very workable, I just think it wouldn't appeal to the ArmA masses. After you played the Epic CTI you can never go back.

Some want quick, instant yet still strategic and teamwork-having multiplayer. For this, a PR style scenario is just too perfect.

Also, is there any public server that hosts PvP maps with full realism?

[arma.isgreat.org 0]

Hey, If you haven't seen my thread in user missions, you may want to check my mission.  This is the most realistic combat I could throw together, with fun still in mind.  This employs all arms and demands 100% situational awareness.

Ufi, you can take down convoys in this, It's evo PVP. Missions add to your team's score.

[Michael_Wittman 0]

This game is ment for coop...not for PvP...

Why? Its reallistic...nobody wants reallity thats why we come here...period.

The game itself its quite hard for the average player...the only thing it lacks is true usefull tips for the use of tanks and other vehicles...i see people pick tanks and go into towns over and over...I think thats because they dont know the fuck of how to use a tank and they base their use on Rambo-like movies.

So...for developers,

If you want not to "dissapoint" ppl anymore find the way to explain people whats the supposed better way to use vehicles... and tanks....and how to play this....and why its better to coop....

IMHO that could make ppl like usual BF2 players to give up on arcade forever...also they will understand many things they see on WWII, afganistan, Irak...etc videos.

Just a tip on WHY NOT TO USE PURE ARMOR FORCE IN A CITY/TOWN could be a brief explain of the 1st battle of Grozny.

BTW....this is a almost brand new kind of game...but to add some realism in future versions I would add real efects of weapons on bodies...like..."whats really like to hit someone with a .50 CAL"...or "whats really like to be hit by 120mm shell"...and so on...................And overall....I wont see tanks jumping 200m in the air....and of course a real heavy cheater protection. (Focus on common player...its easier to make him undertand this game than making him understand the map editor and the scripts).

Last consideration,

Prior to this I played 1st version of Ghost Recon and it was not any popular because of realism...If you play a game where a single shot can kill you its like playing any other shooter (COD, MOH, CS, DOD....) where everyone has a sniper rifle. So....what everyone do? the same any sniper do in other game...CAMP... and whats the result? yes...you noticed......................kill..........................the fun.

So learn to play this...I can assure you that its hard...if you want PvP there are many other games where you can play selfishly, run aim and hit...and have cooler explotions and stuff...

[JeRK 0]

This game is ment for coop...not for PvP...

Why? Its reallistic...nobody wants reallity thats why we come here...period.

The game itself its quite hard for the average player...the only thing it lacks is true usefull tips for the use of tanks and other vehicles...i see people pick tanks and go into towns over and over...I think thats because they dont know the fuck of how to use a tank and they base their use on Rambo-like movies.

So...for developers,

If you want not to "dissapoint" ppl anymore find the way to explain people whats the supposed better way to use vehicles... and tanks....and how to play this....and why its better to coop....

IMHO that could make ppl like usual BF2 players to give up on arcade forever...also they will understand many things they see on WWII, afganistan, Irak...etc videos.

Just a tip on WHY NOT TO USE PURE ARMOR FORCE IN A CITY/TOWN could be a brief explain of the 1st battle of Grozny.

BTW....this is a almost brand new kind of game...but to add some realism in future versions I would add real efects of weapons on bodies...like..."whats really like to hit someone with a .50 CAL"...or "whats really like to be hit by 120mm shell"...and so on...................And overall....I wont see tanks jumping 200m in the air....and of course a real heavy cheater protection. (Focus on common player...its easier to make him undertand this game than making him understand the map editor and the scripts).

Last consideration,

Prior to this I played 1st version of Ghost Recon and it was not any popular because of realism...If you play a game where a single shot can kill you its like playing any other shooter (COD, MOH, CS, DOD....) where everyone has a sniper rifle. So....what everyone do? the same any sniper do in other game...CAMP... and whats the result? yes...you noticed......................kill..........................the fun.

So learn to play this...I can assure you that its hard...if you want PvP there are many other games where you can play selfishly, run aim and hit...and have cooler explotions and stuff...

Play project reality. NOW.

ArmA is perfectly suited for PvP on high realism. The combined arms missions that currently exist (AkA berzerk) are horrible and rather than enforcing teamwork they cause people to lone-wolf. The mission I suggest is as perfectly suited as it gets.

By the way, ArmA has a predecessor. Operation Flashpoint.

[Michael_Wittman 0]

Jerk...have you ever check (real/mental) age of average player? and what he usually do...

And just a tip...when you face a enemy wich is dig in you NEVER attack with less than twice their forces...so this game is reallistic but still rambo. The Black Hawk Down episode is a awfull retreat although the movie says its a honorable battle.

Play ARMA now!

[acadiancrusader 0]

Jerk (no offense ), PR would be even bigger if the engine could handle it. the devs stated that many times before. i for one, and many others play arma because it has large scale potential.

but i do agree with you that we need more structured combat pvp missions. the biggest hurdle is forced squads. on large scale pvp maps, one can easily break squad and do their own thing. at least PR has a system in place where you pretty much have to do what the squad leader wants you to do.

i'm optimistic as CoC has alot of potential to make this better. there is some cool stuff in the pvp evo thread as well. we are not there yet, but i believe the community is heading in the right direction

[JeRK 0]

Jerk (no offense ), PR would be even bigger if the engine could handle it. the devs stated that many times before. i for one, and many others play arma because it has large scale potential.

but i do agree with you that we need more structured combat pvp missions. the biggest hurdle is forced squads. on large scale pvp maps, one can easily break squad and do their own thing. at least PR has a system in place where you pretty much have to do what the squad leader wants you to do.

i'm optimistic as CoC has alot of potential to make this better. there is some cool stuff in the pvp evo thread as well. we are not there yet, but i believe the community is heading in the right direction

Only combined arms would be bigger. As far as I know. 0.8 will feature much more small-scale urban combat.

[JeRK 0]

Jerk...have you ever check (real/mental) age of average player? and what he usually do...

And just a tip...when you face a enemy wich is dig in you NEVER attack with less than twice their forces...so this game is reallistic but still rambo. The Black Hawk Down episode is a awfull retreat although the movie says its a honorable battle.

Play ARMA now!

The "mental age" of players always varies per map/settings. If you make a good, teamplay enforcing mission, smarter people play. If you make "kill kill kill lol" missions, it'll only bring in morons.

Project Reality proves this.

(also, 9999 GET)

[bazooka_boy 0]

There are at least two large scale tournaments who provide PvP battles in an organised way which rewards teamwork, tactics and planning.

They are pretty realistic whilst keeping some unrealistic elements for gameplay purposes (such as respawns).

I eccourage you to check them out as they may be what your looking for.

I can only speak for the tournament I'm involved in but we have many players who played or still do play in the BF2 PR world.